We can't rename the Dome for money but how about...

[xc84]

Ok then how about building a new stadium for football elsewhere and keep the dome pretty much as it is for all other sports?

I think we are losing sight of the issue. I don't think the "problem" is not big enough to solve it by building a brand new stadium (and even more costly option). Hell, if they are going to solve it that way, just replace the dome where it sits and problem solved.

 

[SU2NASA]

A/C in the Dome would cause the roof to collapse.

Not if the A/C units are positioned on the ground and fed into the air disbursement system. There is no reason that air conditioning would not be able to support the higher air pressure inside the dome to keep it inflated.

 

[SU2NASA]

Even if they installed it for free, the annual costs to run it would be insane. unless you meant Carrier should pay the electrical bill for it every year...

The issue is Syracuse University could use the money term limited naming rights would provide, but the way the deal with Carrier is structured there's no way to do that. Carrier pays nothing for the free advertising every time the name of the stadium is mentioned. I certainly don't know the terms of the deal, but if I was SU I'd be trying to find any possible way to eliminate the free advertising value Carrier receives. Any time they're playing football, it's at Ernie Davis Field. Any hoops games are at Jim Boeheim Court. SU stops calling it the Carrier Dome, the media stops calling it the Carrier Dome...it could put SU in a position with some leverage to negotiate a "buy back" of the naming rights from Carrier.

That would be worth a hell of a lot more than negotiating with them to install a white elephant A/C system. Plus I'm not a fan of the negative negotiating tactics you're suggesting, doubtful it would have any effect and more importantly when you wrestle a pig in the mud you both get dirty - but the pig likes it. I'd rather SU not end up as dirty in the end as (IMHO) Carrier seems to enjoy being.

ERNIE DAVIS FIELD AT THE SYRACUSE carrier DOME

 

[SmilinBob]

I think we are losing sight of the issue. I don't think the "problem" is not big enough to solve it by building a brand new stadium (and even more costly option). Hell, if they are going to solve it that way, just replace the dome where it sits and problem solved.

I think part of the problem is where the dome sits.

 

[xc84]

I think part of the problem is where the dome sits.

Not the naming problem. The gift and naming rights are for the building. No more building, no more name.

 

[SmilinBob]

Not the naming problem. The gift and naming rights are for the building. No more building, no more name.

I agree but if they keep the dome for other sports and build a stadium for football that 50K could park right next to it for 10 bucks I think it would help get the wavering fan. I understand that we'd lose a little ambiance/tradition not being right at the school it could be the route to go.

 

[rocklloyd]

Did you see that part about "jest"? I don't expect it to actually happen. In addition, Carrier sells plenty of furnaces and A/Cs for the home. I had both Carrier products installed in my old home last year.

Thank you

 

[xc84]

I agree but if they keep the dome for other sports and build a stadium for football that 50K could park right next to it for 10 bucks I think it would help get the wavering fan. I understand that we'd lose a little ambiance/tradition not being right at the school it could be the route to go.

That's another thread and I think having a roof is essential (though many may disagree) at SU... the dome helped revive the program. No roof = less fans, IMO. So, if you build another 50K stadium with a roof, you don't need or want the dome. And personally, I like the dome where it sits. When Syracuse wins, people come...poor parking and all.

 

[Townie72]

There's a reason why contracts tend to be fairly detailed and lengthy. If I'm not specifically violating the terms of the contract, why would I feel guilty about it?

If you can't see and understand why this is ethically wrong and legally tenuous, I'm unsure I could explain it to you.

 

[Townie72]

I agree but if they keep the dome for other sports and build a stadium for football that 50K could park right next to it for 10 bucks I think it would help get the wavering fan. I understand that we'd lose a little ambiance/tradition not being right at the school it could be the route to go.

So your plan for escaping the Carrier name is to build a new football only stadium with more convenient parking? Would this be domed?

How much might this cost? How many more fans might it attract than the 35K we get now.

And this makes sense?

 

[SmilinBob]

That's another thread and I think having a roof is essential (though many may disagree) at SU... the dome helped revive the program. No roof = less fans, IMO. So, if you build another 50K stadium with a roof, you don't need or want the dome. And personally, I like the dome where it sits. When Syracuse wins, people come...poor parking and all.

Yeah we're along the same line of thinking and winning does help put the fannies in the seats.

I realize it has to be cost effective but they could use the carrier dome for more high school games in the fall and other sports. A new stadium would take how much acreage for the stadium, parking and other assets. Again, keep the CDome for hoop and lacrosse and the basketball still has it's big selling point. Also, set up the new stadium for football and baseball...football as the #1 priority but make it work for the sports that get effected by the interesting weather the Syracuse area gets. The football team can practice in the current dome in the spring and let baseball use it in the spring. Again, I know it has to be cost effective and times are tough but if we can make this work for the whole area it also could save HS teams from inserting turf and lets them use the new and old domes.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Ok then how about building a new stadium for football elsewhere and keep the dome pretty much as it is for all other sports?

You have a spare $400 million burning a hole in your pocket, or did your Megamillions numbers come in?

 

[Orangeyes]

If my math is correct and Carrier paid $2.7 million for the naming rights, over the course of 32 years that gift has averaged $84,375 a year.

In terms of today's money how much is the 32 year old gift of $2.7 equivalent to today?

At the prevailing interest rate in 1980 what would $2.7 million have grown to by now?

 

[Townie72]

Not the naming problem. The gift and naming rights are for the building. No more building, no more name.

There is no "naming problem". The Dome has a name. The "problem" is that we have no legal and ethical way of escaping the contract SU signed to cash in on the current market value of a name for the Carrier Dome.

This is scurrilous.

This idea puts me in mind of the satire on American life, "The Loved One" by Evelyn Waugh. In it, the owner of a huge cemetary in California, having sold all the grave sites and wants to convert propery on which the graves sits into a theme park. The only thing that stands in his way are all those bodies in all those graves.

"There must be a way to get those stiffs off of my land." he says to himself.

The cemetary owner finally arrives at a potential solution which is to send the remains up in rocket into space to arrive at what he calls "an orbit of perpetual grace".

 

[SmilinBob]

You have a spare $400 million burning a hole in your pocket, or did your Megamillions numbers come in?

Just putting things out there because I just don't see any other ACC schools playing on their basketball court because as far as I see it, we have a bit of an identity problem. You want to be called a football school? Be one.

 

[xc84]

There is no "naming problem". The Dome has a name. The "problem" is that we have no legal and ethical way of escaping the contract SU signed to cash in on the current market value of a name for the Carrier Dome.

This is scurrilous.

This idea puts me in mind of the satire on American life, "The Loved One" by Evelyn Waugh. In it, the owner of a huge cemetary in California, having sold all the grave sites and wants to convert propery on which the graves sits into a theme park. The only thing that stands in his way are all those bodies in all those graves.

"There must be a way to get those stiffs off of my land." he says to himself.

The cemetary owner finally arrives at a potential solution which is to send the remains up in rocket into space to arrive at what he calls "an orbit of perpetual grace".

The problem you defined is what I was referring to as the "naming problem". You can rename the problem if you want

So, if we could build a rocket ship and send the dome to outer space, we could build a newly named building in the same spot. Problem solved.

 

[xc84]

Just putting things out there because I just don't see any other ACC schools playing on their basketball court because as far as I see it, we have a bit of an identity problem. You want to be called a football school? Be one.

Actually, the basketball court is on the football field.

 

[SmilinBob]

Actually, the basketball court is on the football field.

Not perception wise.

 

[xc84]

Also, set up the new stadium for football and baseball...football as the #1 priority but make it work for the sports that get effected by the interesting weather the Syracuse area gets.

SU does not have a baseball team.

 

[xc84]

Not perception wise.

I don't think we need to have two stadiums to avoid the perception that Syracuse is a basketball school.

 

[SmilinBob]

SU does not have a baseball team.

The ACC is a big baseball conference, I know we don't have one.

Regarding perception no you don't build a stadium just because of that, you do so because of all the factors put together.

 

[xc84]

The ACC is a big baseball conference, I know we don't have one.

Regarding perception no you don't build a stadium just because of that, you do so because of all the factors put together.

No problem. I am not trying to give you a hard time...I just don't think they need a new stadium (taking the costs into consideration and the likelihood that the school could raise the funds to build one). I like the dome. I like it for football and I like it for basketball.

 

[SmilinBob]

No problem. I am not trying to give you a hard time...I just don't think they need a new stadium (taking the costs into consideration and the likelihood that the school could raise the funds to build one). I like the dome. I like it for football and I like it for basketball.

I do too and the all in one thing is very convenient. I know you're not just trying to give me a hard time and a good discussion is always conducive in having a solid thread.

 

[Orangeyes]

If my math is correct and Carrier paid $2.7 million for the naming rights, over the course of 32 years that gift has averaged $84,375 a year.

In terms of today's money how much is the 32 year old gift of $2.7 equivalent to today?

At the prevailing interest rate in 1980 what would $2.7 million have grown to by now?

This feels weird but I'm going to answer part of my own question

The donation of $2,700,000 made by the Carrier Corporation in 1980 would be the equivalent to a $7,238,605 donation in terms of 2011 money.

$2,700,000 of 2011 money would be worth $1,007,100 in 1980

 

[xc84]

This feels weird but I'm going to answer part of my own question

The donation of $2,700,000 made by the Carrier Corporation in 1980 would be the equivalent to a $7,238,605 donation in terms of 2011 money.

$2,700,000 of 2011 money would be worth $1,007,100 in 1980

so...what would 30 years of naming rights on a stadium be worth in today's dollars. Recent transactions average from 1 to 10 million $ per year. Present value today of such an annuity is from 15 to 150M$ today and that assumes no increase at all for 30 years (which is not really likely). In hindsight, Carrier got the better deal no matter how you slice it.