We Need to Pick a Lane

[Scooch]

I watched some of the Ole Miss game last night. My son is visiting friends there this weekend and went to the game, so I figured I'd tune in for a bit.

They have Trinidad Campbell playing QB. He was at D2 Ferris State last year. He plays a bit frantic, and he's not an accurate passer at all, but the guy is electric. Can do damage with his legs and his arm. Ultimately, he's the definition of a "dynamic" QB.

We've had this kind of QB before. Dungey was the premium model. Schraeder was the poor man's version. Hell, back during my days on the Hill, Kevin Mason fit this mold as well.

And of course we've had the more traditional QB type. The drop back passer who can fit the ball in tight spaces. Kyle McCord was the premium model. Angeli seemed to be that too (although he's more mobile). Ryan Nassib was another one.

A major problem with our offense right now is that we clearly have a difference of opinion between our HC and OC (and perhaps the QB coach as well) as to what path we should be pursuing. Do we want the traditional types and run a pro style passing attack? Or do we want the dynamic playmaker? Angeli is the former, Collins is the latter (had he been good). Seems like Carney is the latter as well (I assume this since they don't let him pass).

We need to pick a lane. If Nixon remains as OC (which I doubt), or if he's replaced with someone who has a similar philosophy, then we need to have a QB room full of (potentially) strong passers. If we get someone new, someone who shares what Fran's QB philosophy seems to be, then we need a QB room full of (potentially) dynamic playmakers. Most important, the offense needs to be built to maximize the attributes of the room. This season is a master class in how to royally screw that up, and the whole offensive staff should be ashamed at what they've let happen.

I'm going to say it until everyone gets incredibly sick of me: the QB position is EVERYTHING in modern football. Every-thing. This program will fail miserably if we can't attract QBs who can produce at a high level. The notion that we can win games with "tough D" and a "strong run game" is preposterous. No one wins that way in football. You need a QB who is a difference maker and can make hugely positive plays, multiple times a game.

Fran's gotta pick a lane and get to work.

 

[shu 49]

I watched some of the Ole Miss game last night. My son is visiting friends there this weekend and went to the game, so I figured I'd tune in for a bit.

They have Trinidad Campbell playing QB. He was at D2 Ferris State last year. He plays a bit frantic, and he's not an accurate passer at all, but the guy is electric. Can do damage with his legs and his arm. Ultimately, he's the definition of a "dynamic" QB.

We've had this kind of QB before. Dungey was the premium model. Schraeder was the poor man's version. Hell, back during my days on the Hill, Kevin Mason fit this mold as well.

And of course we've had the more traditional QB type. The drop back passer who can fit the ball in tight spaces. Kyle McCord was the premium model. Angeli seemed to be that too (although he's more mobile). Ryan Nassib was another one.

A major problem with our offense right now is that we clearly have a difference of opinion between our HC and OC (and perhaps the QB coach as well) as to what path we should be pursuing. Do we want the traditional types and run a pro style passing attack? Or do we want the dynamic playmaker? Angeli is the former, Collins is the latter (had he been good). Seems like Carney is the latter as well (I assume this since they don't let him pass).

We need to pick a lane. If Nixon remains as OC (which I doubt), or if he's replaced with someone who has a similar philosophy, then we need to have a QB room full of (potentially) strong passers. If we get someone new, someone who shares what Fran's QB philosophy seems to be, then we need a QB room full of (potentially) dynamic playmakers. Most important, the offense needs to be built to maximize the attributes of the room. This season is a master class in how to royally screw that up, and the whole offensive staff should be ashamed at what they've let happen.

I'm going to say it until everyone gets incredibly sick of me: the QB position is EVERYTHING in modern football. Every-thing. This program will fail miserably if we can't attract QBs who can produce at a high level. The notion that we can win games with "tough D" and a "strong run game" is preposterous. No one wins that way in football. You need a QB who is a difference maker and can make hugely positive plays, multiple times a game.

Fran's gotta pick a lane and get to work.

I agree except defense part cause we gotta improve in run game drastically.

 

[Scooch]

I agree except defense part cause we gotta improve in run game drastically.

I'm not saying we don't need a better D. Our D is an embarrassment. But the idea that a program can largely ride a D to great seasons just isn't possible anymore.

 

[AngryOtto]

Good staffs make changes based on the players available talents. This staff has not adjusted at all. When a reporter asked Fran about certain changes to the O, Fran’s response was who said we haven’t. Well if they have and it’s not showing in the play calling that is a problem.

 

[AngryOtto]

I think Fran should bring in Addizzio if he would come. Oline coach and assistant head coach. Bring in P as a consultant. Would give Fran a sounding board and improve areas of need.

 

[OttosShoes]

That’d be Trinidad Chambliss. Not trying to “well akshully” you. It’s just one of the coolest names I have ever heard.

 

[Scooch]

That’d be Trinidad Chambliss. Not trying to “well akshully” you. It’s just one of the coolest names I have ever heard.

My bad. I mistook the 70s baseball star he shares a surname with.

 

[Millhouse]

I watched some of the Ole Miss game last night. My son is visiting friends there this weekend and went to the game, so I figured I'd tune in for a bit.

They have Trinidad Campbell playing QB. He was at D2 Ferris State last year. He plays a bit frantic, and he's not an accurate passer at all, but the guy is electric. Can do damage with his legs and his arm. Ultimately, he's the definition of a "dynamic" QB.

We've had this kind of QB before. Dungey was the premium model. Schraeder was the poor man's version. Hell, back during my days on the Hill, Kevin Mason fit this mold as well.

And of course we've had the more traditional QB type. The drop back passer who can fit the ball in tight spaces. Kyle McCord was the premium model. Angeli seemed to be that too (although he's more mobile). Ryan Nassib was another one.

A major problem with our offense right now is that we clearly have a difference of opinion between our HC and OC (and perhaps the QB coach as well) as to what path we should be pursuing. Do we want the traditional types and run a pro style passing attack? Or do we want the dynamic playmaker? Angeli is the former, Collins is the latter (had he been good). Seems like Carney is the latter as well (I assume this since they don't let him pass).

We need to pick a lane. If Nixon remains as OC (which I doubt), or if he's replaced with someone who has a similar philosophy, then we need to have a QB room full of (potentially) strong passers. If we get someone new, someone who shares what Fran's QB philosophy seems to be, then we need a QB room full of (potentially) dynamic playmakers. Most important, the offense needs to be built to maximize the attributes of the room. This season is a master class in how to royally screw that up, and the whole offensive staff should be ashamed at what they've let happen.

I'm going to say it until everyone gets incredibly sick of me: the QB position is EVERYTHING in modern football. Every-thing. This program will fail miserably if we can't attract QBs who can produce at a high level. The notion that we can win games with "tough D" and a "strong run game" is preposterous. No one wins that way in football. You need a QB who is a difference maker and can make hugely positive plays, multiple times a game.

Fran's gotta pick a lane and get to work.

Pick the angeli lane and if you get someone who can scramble, it's a bonus

 

[Chip]

The misnomer on this is that Collins is the playmaker type. He's not a very fast runner at all, doesn't have quick feet, not very elusive.

I think Fran wants to run the ball a lot more than we do. But not necessarily with the athletic QB running spread option. I think he just wants to do it all smashmouthy. He got his way more against UNC, didn't matter much.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

It’s just strange. Good offensive coordinators can help even basic QBs look more functional. Is it that Nixon can’t or that he won’t? Guessing Fran gave him complete control over the offense and he’s stubborn.

 

[swish7]

McCord fell into Browns lap. I mean, they had a pee wee football connection for crying out loud.
Angeli is a good model. Nassib, etc.
Personally, I'd prefer the Dungey type. The McNabb type. Those are different types, but both are fantastic competitors who can kill you with their legs.
Its why I feel Carney should be given a real shot & the offense should be adjusted to what he can do.

Ultimately though, you're not accomplishing anything with this line & this playcalling, & such a crappy D.

Bottom line, one player should not swing things to this degree.

 

[ManleyRocks]

Last year was awesome and Angeli was coming into his own and was looking amazing. The reality though is that you cannot reliably expect to have a stable of these guys year after year. Historically schools not in the top echelon have had greater success with option QBs and dynamic RBs. You need every player to be a threat and you need to use the entire field. Gosh Bill Hurley and Joe Morris carried the team along with Art Monk. Donnie Mac was awesome and McNabb was dynamic. I am sorry but running the ball up the middle and relying on a QB who can make all the throws will not work given injuries and players available. Spread the field. Use the entire field. Mesh. Option. Do it all. Ask Navy. Ask Army. It is ok.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The misnomer on this is that Collins is the playmaker type. He's not a very fast runner at all, doesn't have quick feet, not very elusive.

I think Fran wants to run the ball a lot more than we do. But not necessarily with the athletic QB running spread option. I think he just wants to do it all smashmouthy. He got his way more against UNC, didn't matter much.

Will be interesting to see what Fran goes with. D coaches tend to revert to run heavy Os. But Fran isn’t your typical conservative coach so maybe he doesn’t.

 

[Scooch]

The misnomer on this is that Collins is the playmaker type. He's not a very fast runner at all, doesn't have quick feet, not very elusive.

I think Fran wants to run the ball a lot more than we do. But not necessarily with the athletic QB running spread option. I think he just wants to do it all smashmouthy. He got his way more against UNC, didn't matter much.

That’s fair. I thought about not including him because he’s terrible at both styles of QBing. But I was being generous.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think he just wants to do it all smashmouthy.

Somebody once told me the world was gonna roll me.

 

[Scooch]

McCord fell into Browns lap. I mean, they had a pee wee football connection for crying out loud.
Angeli is a good model. Nassib, etc.
Personally, I'd prefer the Dungey type. The McNabb type. Those are different types, but both are fantastic competitors who can kill you with their legs.
Its why I feel Carney should be given a real shot & the offense should be adjusted to what he can do.

Ultimately though, you're not accomplishing anything with this line & this playcalling, & such a crappy D.

Bottom line, one player should not swing things to this degree.

The one player who swung things was Collins. If he wasn’t so atrocious we’d have a fighting chance.

 

[tbonezone]

Good staffs make changes based on the players available talents.

ok everybody loves surf and turf right ? . why ? it's absolutely delicious when prepared expertly ! but those prized ingredients are quite expensive and a bad chef can even somehow manage to mess up lobster and filet mignon. cuz you see it's not the expensive ingredients that make surf n turf or any meal so delicious...it's all in the chef's skill .
we seem to be hearing from the staff " well we don't have any more lobster on offense we now have canned TUNA ! and we don't have any tender steak on defense we now have HELPER !" so instead of serving y'all up delicious surf n turf you're just basically gonna get TUNA HELPER . it's so quick and easy , just mix them up , throw it on the table. dinner served. but we taste the results.
now more to the point above. a skilled and resourceful chef can look into any pantry and no matter the cost of the ingredients ...size them up and prepare a delicious and pleasant meal from what's available. a ham bone , lentils , a well seasoned broth or maybe find some new combination even better than lobster or steak. we need chefs not hacks. sick of the excuse that the cupboard is bare. you take what you got and make it work . if not 5 star dining at least comforting and competitive so your diners will return .

 

[orangecuse]

I watched some of the Ole Miss game last night. My son is visiting friends there this weekend and went to the game, so I figured I'd tune in for a bit.

They have Trinidad Campbell playing QB. He was at D2 Ferris State last year. He plays a bit frantic, and he's not an accurate passer at all, but the guy is electric. Can do damage with his legs and his arm. Ultimately, he's the definition of a "dynamic" QB.

We've had this kind of QB before. Dungey was the premium model. Schraeder was the poor man's version. Hell, back during my days on the Hill, Kevin Mason fit this mold as well.

And of course we've had the more traditional QB type. The drop back passer who can fit the ball in tight spaces. Kyle McCord was the premium model. Angeli seemed to be that too (although he's more mobile). Ryan Nassib was another one.

A major problem with our offense right now is that we clearly have a difference of opinion between our HC and OC (and perhaps the QB coach as well) as to what path we should be pursuing. Do we want the traditional types and run a pro style passing attack? Or do we want the dynamic playmaker? Angeli is the former, Collins is the latter (had he been good). Seems like Carney is the latter as well (I assume this since they don't let him pass).

We need to pick a lane. If Nixon remains as OC (which I doubt), or if he's replaced with someone who has a similar philosophy, then we need to have a QB room full of (potentially) strong passers. If we get someone new, someone who shares what Fran's QB philosophy seems to be, then we need a QB room full of (potentially) dynamic playmakers. Most important, the offense needs to be built to maximize the attributes of the room. This season is a master class in how to royally screw that up, and the whole offensive staff should be ashamed at what they've let happen.

I'm going to say it until everyone gets incredibly sick of me: the QB position is EVERYTHING in modern football. Every-thing. This program will fail miserably if we can't attract QBs who can produce at a high level. The notion that we can win games with "tough D" and a "strong run game" is preposterous. No one wins that way in football. You need a QB who is a difference maker and can make hugely positive plays, multiple times a game.

Fran's gotta pick a lane and get to work.

I'm not sure why anyone would get sick with such a comment? I mean, with all due respect, it's kinda 'Captain Obvious' type. Just look at the NFL, show me a team that has a franchise type QB, and that team is one that is very good, makes the playoffs consistently and plays for championships. Just look at what Josh Allen has done for the Bills! Take him away, and the Bills in all probably not only don't make the playoffs, they likely annual draft in the top half of the NFL draft until so.

As a lifelong Browns fan, just look at how brutal it has been for them and their fans trying to find that franchise QB to give them a shot. They have (by far) the most different starting QB's since '99 (when they came back as an expansion team) and still searching.

Edit: I was, and still am, a Baker Mayfield fan. I hated the trade for Watson when it happened, primarily due to it fracturing the Cleveland fan base, and, secondly, for all of the number one draft choices they gave up.

 

[Scooch]

I'm not sure why anyone would get sick with such a comment? I mean, with all due respect, it's kinda 'Captain Obvious' type. Just look at the NFL, show me a team that has a franchise type QB, and that team is one that is very good, makes the playoffs consistently and plays for championships. Just look at what Josh Allen has done for the Bills! Take him away, and the Bills in all probably not only don't make the playoffs, they likely annual draft in the top half of the NFL draft until so.

As a lifelong Browns fan, just look at how brutal it has been for them and their fans trying to find that franchise QB to give them a shot. They have (by far) the most different starting QB's since '99 (when they came back as an expansion team) and still searching.

Edit: I was, and still am, a Baker Mayfield fan. I hated the trade for Watson when it happened, primarily due to it fracturing the Cleveland fan base, and, secondly, for all of the number one draft choices they gave up.

Because there’s still a lot of people here who parrot the ol’ “run and stop the run stuff”. That’s a good way to be a .500 team, IMHO. You want to win you need a helluva QB who can throw.

And there’s a lot of people doing the “if we had average QB play we’d win 8 this season” nonsense. No, we wouldn’t. We might not have won 8 with an above average Angeli.

 

[Newhouser]

If we are going to pick a "lane" I prefer it be Lane Kiffin. Let's get him here.

 

[PAcuse]

I think this is the way to get a good back up
Comb through D2, JUCO, and FBS to find it, as most are willing to step up to get a shot

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think this is the way to get a good back up
Comb through D2, JUCO, and FBS to find it, as most are willing to step up to get a shot

I think that is the way to go long term. Having an academic JR, SR, or GS. Experience and maturity.

That said we have a unique situation next year where we can offer a portal kid the QB1 reps during the Spring and if they tear it up they have a leg up for the Summer over Angeli (no pun intended).

 

[Millhouse]

The misnomer on this is that Collins is the playmaker type. He's not a very fast runner at all, doesn't have quick feet, not very elusive.

I think Fran wants to run the ball a lot more than we do. But not necessarily with the athletic QB running spread option. I think he just wants to do it all smashmouthy. He got his way more against UNC, didn't matter much.

He has a factory mindset

 

[shu 49]

I'm not saying we don't need a better D. Our D is an embarrassment. But the idea that a program can largely ride a D to great seasons just isn't possible anymore.

True

 

[phil77]

It’s just strange. Good offensive coordinators can help even basic QBs look more functional. Is it that Nixon can’t or that he won’t? Guessing Fran gave him complete control over the offense and he’s stubborn.

So from what I see is Nixon's offense is still working (I haven't watched ALL-22 of UNC yet). When Collins was playing, we had wide-open WRs all over the field. Collins is just not an accurate QB and can't read a defense. No amount of coaching is going to fix that. That tells me the offense is working fine but the QB is the problem.

My questions then are:

-Who is training these QBs?
-Who is evaluating these QBs?
-Who is recruiting these QBs?
-Who is deciding which QB to play?

To run Nixon offense you need someone who can process fast and is accurate. Bonus stuff is athletic ability and arm strength. When picking a QB need to focus on the stuff we need to process fast and accurate and less about the "arm talent".

Fran has to give him control of the offense because my guess is Fran has no clue about the offensive side of the ball at least on the Xs and Os side of things.