Well, it was fun, but Kevin Belbey Has to Do It Differently Next Time ...

[IthacaMatt]

Well, it was painful to watch Arinze, because he must have been hurting. He has been a top G League player these past few years, and isn't THAT old. But he could not stop anyone at all on defense, and could barely move. It was painful to watch, because that's where we had to overcome his play to try to stay in the game.

Hakim really tried to turn it up at times, but the dude is 37 years old. Watkins played well at times. He's the only one of those guys I would bring back next year.

As the announcers (and JB) said, this game is not for a traditional roster. It's for interchangeable 6-4 to 6-7 guys, who are all 3 and D types, who share the ball and hit the boards. White and BJ were both inconsistent, but played with energy. Neither of them is a strong defensive guy or rebounder, though. We needed a CJ Fair / Tyler Roberson / Paul Harris type of guy on the roster to get some boards. Nichols would have been nice to have, and the same with McCullough or Southerland.

You need some live young bodies who play hard in the mix, that is the key.

Gbinije showed that he was only a serviceable PG for us through hard work. He looked uncertain with his handle in these games, although he's one of us and he played hard. How about Triche and Andy Rautins to go with Devo and Crawford next year?

Devo was a warrior. His buddy Crawford could have shot better from 3, but if he didn't have to do quite so much, he probably would have been more effective. Gillon has energy but can't finish a drive in traffic. Either he has to learn a pull up jumper from the foul line, or find another guy next year. Too many turnovers.

They will have to change the mix next year.

 

[Day2]

Well, it was painful to watch Arinze, because he must have been hurting. He has been a top G League player these past few years, and isn't THAT old. But he could not stop anyone at all on defense, and could barely move. It was painful to watch, because that's where we had to overcome his play to try to stay in the game.

Hakim really tried to turn it up at times, but the dude is 37 years old. Watkins played well at times. He's the only one of those guys I would bring back next year.

As the announcers (and JB) said, this game is not for a traditional roster. It's for interchangeable 6-4 to 6-7 guys, who are all 3 and D types, who share the ball and hit the boards. White and BJ were both inconsistent, but played with energy. Neither of them is a strong defensive guy or rebounder, though. We needed a CJ Fair / Tyler Roberson / Paul Harris type of guy on the roster to get some boards. Nichols would have been nice to have, and the same with McCullough or Southerland.

You need some live young bodies who play hard in the mix, that is the key.

Gbinije showed that he was only a serviceable PG for us through hard work. He looked uncertain with his handle in these games, although he's one of us and he played hard. How about Triche and Andy Rautins to go with Devo and Crawford next year?

Devo was a warrior. His buddy Crawford could have shot better from 3, but if he didn't have to do quite so much, he probably would have been more effective. Gillon has energy but can't finish a drive in traffic. Either he has to learn a pull up jumper from the foul line, or find another guy next year. Too many turnovers.

They will have to change the mix next year.

You would bring back Crawford?

 

[Cheriehoop]

I thought Hak was one of the few bright spots regardless of his age. He led us not only in scoring (7 for 12) but also 10 rebounds yesterday. I would hope it’s left up to him whether he wants to play next year because he’s a definite asset.

 

[Newhouser]

Devo is great but for every bucket he scores he gives up 2, and Crawford didn't fit. The player who would solve a lot of woes is Lydon, but don't think he will be playing for a while. Older, out of shape space eaters who can't shoot need to be removed from the roster immediately.

I love AO but him posing over that guy yesterday was the weakest thing I've seen in a while. Dude was awful.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Devo is great but for every bucket he scores he gives up 2, and Crawford didn't fit. The player who would solve a lot of woes is Lydon, but don't think he will be playing for a while. Older, out of shape space eaters who can't shoot need to be removed from the roster immediately.

I love AO but him posing over that guy yesterday was the weakest thing I've seen in a while. Dude was awful.

Lydon can't play as long as he's on an NBA contract so that goes out the window. He would solve a lot of our big issue with younger/fresher legs. Malachi would be an interesting option at the wing.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You would bring back Crawford?

I think he was better than Gillon. I think he would be fine as the fourth guard. At least he can get you some buckets.

 

[Day2]

I think he was better than Gillon. I think he would be fine as the fourth guard. At least he can get you some buckets.

You take enough bad shots, some are bound to go in.

 

[sutomcat]

I thought Hak was one of the few bright spots regardless of his age. He led us not only in scoring (7 for 12) but also 10 rebounds yesterday. I would hope it’s left up to him whether he wants to play next year because he’s a definite asset.

Agree with this.

Our team might have had more talent and size but the guys didn't play together very well and the defense was too poor to win against good teams.

Brotherly Love was really unselfish, worked the ball around for a good shot every possession and was really patient. Very disciplined blocking out and they played tough, physical defense featuring extremely aggressive head checking and body bumps.

The refs are not and probably never will be high quality. They are going to let a lot of contact go. If we want to win, we need to play more physical and be more unselfish.

Scoop and Rak would help a lot. I thought Rick Jackson was better last year than Mook or Arinze this year. Let's beat Philly with more Philly.

BMK would be a good fit. We need defense. Way too many layups in the half court setting.

We will need Brandon and Andy desperately for their defense, passing and shooting. Having Tyler Ennis or Jonny Flynn to run the offense would be really nice.

I wouldn't bring Crawford back. Good player but he is not on the same page as the other guys and it showed.

 

[cto]

Let's not blame Kevin Belbey here. He has a demanding full-time job, and he works his tail off trying to fill out a roster each year. Folks here have no idea which players ... and how many of them ... he tried to entice to play on the team.

Brotherly Love is an entirely different team ... because they really are "a team." Their coach and some of their players explained in tv interviews how they play together year-round in various Philly-area games -- and not for just a couple of weeks in the summer. And their cohesion and familiarity with each other ... showed throughout the game.

Kevin was a four-year team manager as an undergrad at SU .. and he remained close to the team and players during his subsequent three years at SU Law School. His player connections are as good as anyone's.. except for maybe JB's.

 

[RF2044]

Agree with this.

Our team might have had more talent and size but the guys didn't play together very well and the defense was too poor to win against good teams.

Brotherly Love was really unselfish, worked the ball around for a good shot every possession and was really patient. Very disciplined blocking out and they played tough, physical defense featuring extremely aggressive head checking and body bumps.

The refs are not and probably never will be high quality. They are going to let a lot of contact go. If we want to win, we need to play more physical and be more unselfish.

Scoop and Rak would help a lot. I thought Rick Jackson was better last year than Mook or Arinze this year. Let's beat Philly with more Philly.

BMK would be a good fit. We need defense. Way too many layups in the half court setting.

We will need Brandon and Andy desperately for their defense, passing and shooting. Having Tyler Ennis or Jonny Flynn to run the offense would be really nice.

I wouldn't bring Crawford back. Good player but he is not on the same page as the other guys and it showed.

A couple of things [good post, BTW, Tom].

This tournament is about scoring points, ball movement, and making shots. Our components are mismatched, and haven't meshed as capable of playing the unselfish team ball that seems to thrive in TBT.

So, in terms of changes, I think one thing stands out. Please don't take this as a "zone v. man" debate like we have about our team, but the zone has to go. Unlike our actual program, zone here makes ZERO sense. For one thing, the players we face are knock down shooters -- and if they have a little bit of extra room / time / space, the shots are practically automatic. Second, that problem is exacerbated by our players sucking at zone -- they conserve their energy on defense and don't cover enough ground to make a zone effective. Shelve the zone, except situationally.

Next, I think we need to emulate most of the successful teams and go smaller. Lineup should be a true lead guard, two shooting guards, a wing who can board, and a versatile forward manning the middle. Carry one center for defensive purposes [a la Watkins / Riley] -- because some matchups that might be good. But otherwise, give me a Hak or a McCullough and let them play the center position.

It is great to have the opportunity to see our old players suit up again -- and to see guys like White / BJ Johnson who we barely got to know during their careers. But if the intent is to win, then we need pieces that fit together better, have better complimentary skill sets, and who fit the mold of what this tournament requires to be successful. And while I dearly love Devendorf and Gillon, they can't defend anyone. We need players who don't give up more points than they contribute.

Finally, I think that JB nailed it during the interview when he suggested that the team needs a shorter rotation of guys [funny, right?]. I know that these guys have commitments, and that it is hard for them to take time out of their lives to do this for a week or two over the summer. But I think some of the players get lost in the shuffle. An ideal rotation / squad would have 8 players* -- with a reserve guard, wing, and maybe the team's lone center [per above].

So what would that type of roster look like?

PG -- Ennis [now that he is no longer in the NBA]
CG -- Triche
SG -- Rautins
CF -- Fair [or dare I dream, Wes?]
PF -- McCullough [younger legs than the venerable Hak]

Reserve G -- Malichi Richardson [if he's out of NBA, which looks probable]
Reserve -- Gbinije
Reserve C -- Watkins


* I recognize that 8 players would make it difficult to practice

 

[cuse10]

I think he was better than Gillon. I think he would be fine as the fourth guard. At least he can get you some buckets.

Disagree. Needs to be all Syracuse guys going forward. He didn't mesh with the team, but that could be said for a lot of people this year. If they seriously want to win this thing, some guys can't be invited next time around. Possibly find a new coach as well.

 

[Trueblue25]

We had the players to compete vs the philly guys.

Bj, Devo, Gbinije and Hak are all capable of facilitating vs physical opponents.

We just chose to give those minutes to AO, Gillon, Crawford and White instead for one reason or another.

If you don’t defend in general, you’re not going to match up well or create transition vs a philly team.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Let's not blame Kevin Belbey here. He has a full-time demanding job, and he works his tail off trying to fill out a roster each year. Folks here have no idea which players ... and how many of them ... he tried to entice to play on the team.

Brotherly Love is an entirely different team ... because they really are "a team." Their coach and some of their players explained in tv interviews how they play together all the time in various Philly-area games -- and not for just a couple of weeks in the summer. And their cohesion and familiarity with each other ... showed throughout the game.

Kevin was a four-year team manager as an undergrad at SU .. and he remained close to the team and players during his subsequent three years at SU Law School. His player connections are as good as anyone.. except for maybe JB.

It wasn't intended as any criticism of Kevin. Yes, he's volunteering to do all this work to assemble a roster and stay in touch with all these great grads.

It was more a recognition that if Boeheim's Army want to win this thing, we have to think of how we construct the roster in a different way. Some of our biggest names are big men, but the game is more of a game for wing players - "3 and D" types, they call them in the NBA these days.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I thought Hak was one of the few bright spots regardless of his age. He led us not only in scoring (7 for 12) but also 10 rebounds yesterday. I would hope it’s left up to him whether he wants to play next year because he’s a definite asset.

I agree he was great. He was best at center for us, IMO.
If he wants to come back, that would be great, but we can't have to rely on him to be our best center. He needs to be a second unit guy to be most effective.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Crawford's ill-advised shots drove me crazy.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We had the players to compete vs the philly guys.

Bj, Devo, Gbinije and Hak are all capable of facilitating vs physical opponents.

We just chosed to give those minutes to AO, Gillon, Crawford and White instead for one reason or another.

If you don’t defend in general, you’re not going to match up well or create transition vs a philly team.

I think Arinze must have been hurt. He's played so much better than that in the recent past. Watkins, I thought, gave us 1 very good game.

I think if we had an active guy like Baye Keita or Rakeem Christmas as our primary center, then we had Hak and either Watkins or Rick Jackson (who was not in shape last time he played for us), then that's all the big men that we need.

I think Paul Harris would excel in this format. We should talk to him and Tyler Roberson to get some guys who can board.

And then hope Brandon is in good health for his toughness on the perimeter defense. Try to get Andy for his shooting and passing and overall floor play. He used to get a million tips in the middle of the zone.

My ideal roster for next summer (assuming good health & proper fitness):

C: Baye Keita, Hakim Warrick
: C J Fair, Paul Harris, [Demetris Nichols, Andrew White or BJ Johnson], Tyler Roberson
G: Eric Devendorf, Brandon Triche, Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine

That's a hell of a team. You have more active defense and rebounding. You have more toughness, and a bit more consistency on offense.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Crawford's ill-advised shots drove me crazy.

I hear you, but when Devo was out, if the choice was Crawford trying to do something on the drive, versus Andrew White taking a quick three off the first pass of a possession, I'd rather take my chances with Crawford. He's a street player. He's streaky. He can (sometimes) get you a bucket when you need it. He was way better than John Gillon, who I thought just drove into traffic over and over.

 

[realorange]

Comments about the zone were right on. Hak said in an interview that the zone can only be played with energy. These guys are not in shape to do that.
I believe the player we missed the most was Triche. He knows how to run a team and can score if needed but is unselfish in the process.
If you've seen Overseas Elite play, Brotherly Love has too and have made themselves a clone of the four time winners. If they meet, it should be a great game.

 

[Trueblue25]

I think Arinze must have been hurt. He's played so much better than that in the recent past. Watkins, I thought, gave us 1 very good game.

I think if we had an active guy like Baye Keita or Rakeem Christmas as our primary center, then we had Hak and either Watkins or Rick Jackson (who was not in shape last time he played for us), then that's all the big men that we need.

I think Paul Harris would excel in this format. We should talk to him and Tyler Roberson to get some guys who can board.

And then hope Brandon is in good health for his toughness on the perimeter defense. Try to get Andy for his shooting and passing and overall floor play. He used to get a million tips in the middle of the zone.

My ideal roster for next summer (assuming good health & proper fitness):

C: Baye Keita, Hakim Warrick
: C J Fair, Paul Harris, [Demetris Nichols, Andrew White or BJ Johnson], Tyler Roberson
G: Eric Devendorf, Brandon Triche, Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine

That's a hell of a team. You have more active defense and rebounding. You have more toughness, and a bit more consistency on offense.

We missed Triche and Fair terribly. Fair’s scoring ability isn’t what it used to be but you don’t see that man backing down from anyone.

Triche’s ability to handle the ball and penetrate vs other physical/feisty guards is his most undervalued attribute.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Comments about the zone were right on. Hak said in an interview that the zone can only be played with energy. These guys are not in shape to do that.
I believe the player we missed the most was Triche. He knows how to run a team and can score if needed but is unselfish in the process.
If you've seen Overseas Elite play, Brotherly Love has too and have made themselves a clone of the four time winners. If they meet, it should be a great game.

Yes, the "model" for this competition is like that Illinois team that knocked us out in the Elite 8 back in around '88 or '89. They were made of 6-5 to 6-9 interchangeable parts - Nick Anderson, Kendall Gill, Kenny Battle and Marcus Liberty. There were some Louisville teams under Denny Crum that were like that, too - the teams with Rodney and Scooter McCray and some of those guys.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think Arinze must have been hurt. He's played so much better than that in the recent past. Watkins, I thought, gave us 1 very good game.

I think if we had an active guy like Baye Keita or Rakeem Christmas as our primary center, then we had Hak and either Watkins or Rick Jackson (who was not in shape last time he played for us), then that's all the big men that we need.

I think Paul Harris would excel in this format. We should talk to him and Tyler Roberson to get some guys who can board.

And then hope Brandon is in good health for his toughness on the perimeter defense. Try to get Andy for his shooting and passing and overall floor play. He used to get a million tips in the middle of the zone.

My ideal roster for next summer (assuming good health & proper fitness):

C: Baye Keita, Hakim Warrick
: C J Fair, Paul Harris, [Demetris Nichols, Andrew White or BJ Johnson], Tyler Roberson
G: Eric Devendorf, Brandon Triche, Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine

That's a hell of a team. You have more active defense and rebounding. You have more toughness, and a bit more consistency on offense.

Need guys who can make 3's. Fair cannot and looked awful in the tournament when he played a couple years ago for whatever reason. Nichols was good, but he hurt his foot. Hopefully he comes back healthy. Roberson doesn't help you there either. The best year we had was two years ago when a lot of the ball handling duties went to Triche and Southerland was also on the team. I am not sure why Southerland was not back, but he can do a lot defensively and on the glass that these other guys cannot due to subpar size and athleticism.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Need guys who can make 3's. Fair cannot and looked awful in the tournament when he played a couple years ago for whatever reason. Nichols was good, but he hurt his foot. Hopefully he comes back healthy. Roberson doesn't help you there either. The best year we had was two years ago when a lot of the ball handling duties went to Triche and Southerland was also on the team. I am not sure why Southerland was not back, but he can do a lot defensively and on the glass that these other guys cannot due to subpar size and athleticism.

On my "dream roster", I have a couple forwards who can make 3's and a couple who can rebound and score near the rim. If Fair doesn't have it anymore, then I guess you have to move on. I lean more on the guards for the threat from three - Andy is a sharp shooter, Devo is streaky, and then Triche and Scoop are threats, but not dead-eye shooters. You prefer that they all drive and dish, but you have to guard them all if they're open.

We could use a CJ Fair kind of all-around player at forward, though - not just a scorer like White or Johnson, but a guy with an all-around game, who scores near the rim, is a threat from 3, plays defense and rebounds. I think Paul Harris would be a great addition to this team.

 

[RF2044]

Need guys who can make 3's. Fair cannot and looked awful in the tournament when he played a couple years ago for whatever reason. Nichols was good, but he hurt his foot. Hopefully he comes back healthy. Roberson doesn't help you there either. The best year we had was two years ago when a lot of the ball handling duties went to Triche and Southerland was also on the team. I am not sure why Southerland was not back, but he can do a lot defensively and on the glass that these other guys cannot due to subpar size and athleticism.

In "Fair-ness," we've had a bunch of fairly young wings who were studs at SU, who struggled in this tournament. Joseph, Fair, both Gbinije / White this year.

Those guys didn't suddenly forget how to play, they're just being mis-utilized. They are all capable of thriving in this type of setting.

 

[Cusefan0307]

On my "dream roster", I have a couple forwards who can make 3's and a couple who can rebound and score near the rim. If Fair doesn't have it anymore, then I guess you have to move on. I lean more on the guards for the threat from three - Andy is a sharp shooter, Devo is streaky, and then Triche and Scoop are threats, but not dead-eye shooters. You prefer that they all drive and dish, but you have to guard them all if they're open.

We could use a CJ Fair kind of all-around player at forward, though - not just a scorer like White or Johnson, but a guy with an all-around game, who scores near the rim, is a threat from 3, plays defense and rebounds. I think Paul Harris would be a great addition to this team.

I don't even know if Scoop plays anymore and around the rim scoring doesn't seem too important in this format. I know people have been begging for Andy, but if he hasn't played at this point I doubt he ever will.

 

[Trueblue25]

I want to challenge the inclusion of BJ in the list of one dimensional players.

He boarded and passed very well, just saw limited minutes imo.