Well, it was fun, but Kevin Belbey Has to Do It Differently Next Time ...

[Cusefan0307]

In "Fair-ness," we've had a bunch of fairly young wings who were studs at SU, who struggled in this tournament. Joseph, Fair, both Gbinije / White this year.

Those guys didn't suddenly forget how to play, they're just being mis-utilized. They are all capable of thriving in this type of setting.

"Fair" enough lol. I'd rather see Gbinije get another shot for sure due to his diversified skill set.

 

[cuse10]

Gbinije didn't get enough playing time to say he struggled.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Let's not blame Kevin Belbey here. He has a full-time demanding job, and he works his tail off trying to fill out a roster each year. Folks here have no idea which players ... and how many of them ... he tried to entice to play on the team.

Brotherly Love is an entirely different team ... because they really are "a team." Their coach and some of their players explained in tv interviews how they play together all the time in various Philly-area games -- and not for just a couple of weeks in the summer. And their cohesion and familiarity with each other ... showed throughout the game.

Kevin was a four-year team manager as an undergrad at SU .. and he remained close to the team and players during his subsequent three years at SU Law School. His player connections are as good as anyone.. except for maybe JB.

I was thinking about this. How often do other teams play together? It showed that BL plays together a lot. Very unselfish team. I guess it seems to me that there’s more to it than finding former players who were really good and simply plugging g them into the roster.

Which sucks because I thought this was our best chance to win the tourney.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I want to challenge the inclusion of BJ in the list of one dimensional players.

He boarded and passed very well, just saw limited minutes imo.

Over the course of three games, he was a very good contributor and brought high energy. I just thought that as we went deeper into the tournament, he began to focus a bit too much on shooting the three. Just my opinion. Happy to provide a platform for the young man to get some publicity and get back into the league. He's family.

 

[Gabjon]

The issue is three games in three days. Older players take longer to recover and if you're a big with a history of knee problems recovery is a must! Short of changing the format which would prefer. (Playing Friday night and again Saturday at noon is crazy.) The coach has to plan his minutes around his rest and recovery program. This means you probably want to start Watkins of AO not because he is younger because he is not, but he has better knees and can hold up a little better. Personally I think starting Watkins and Hak together makes more sense anyway because Watkins can score off put backs and dump offs from from Hak's post ups. Hak in the high post and Watkins in the low post. Then you can play AO with BJ and space the floor playing 4 around 1, AO in the post with shooters all around. Not one of these teams had a player that can guard AO one on one in the post. Lastly having the big team is only an advantage if you can control the pace of the game. Everybody is going to try and get into the legs of the bigs by running them. If you're going to play big you have to play smart and that starts with the coach followed by guards.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Well, it was painful to watch Arinze, because he must have been hurting. He has been a top G League player these past few years, and isn't THAT old. But he could not stop anyone at all on defense, and could barely move. It was painful to watch, because that's where we had to overcome his play to try to stay in the game.

Hakim really tried to turn it up at times, but the dude is 37 years old. Watkins played well at times. He's the only one of those guys I would bring back next year.

As the announcers (and JB) said, this game is not for a traditional roster. It's for interchangeable 6-4 to 6-7 guys, who are all 3 and D types, who share the ball and hit the boards. White and BJ were both inconsistent, but played with energy. Neither of them is a strong defensive guy or rebounder, though. We needed a CJ Fair / Tyler Roberson / Paul Harris type of guy on the roster to get some boards. Nichols would have been nice to have, and the same with McCullough or Southerland.

You need some live young bodies who play hard in the mix, that is the key.

Gbinije showed that he was only a serviceable PG for us through hard work. He looked uncertain with his handle in these games, although he's one of us and he played hard. How about Triche and Andy Rautins to go with Devo and Crawford next year?

Devo was a warrior. His buddy Crawford could have shot better from 3, but if he didn't have to do quite so much, he probably would have been more effective. Gillon has energy but can't finish a drive in traffic. Either he has to learn a pull up jumper from the foul line, or find another guy next year. Too many turnovers.

They will have to change the mix next year.

Softness continues to haunt the program.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Softness continues to haunt the program.

Ouch. (But true ...)

 

[dasher]

Softness continues to haunt the program.

yeah, the program has really suffered because it was soft. We haven't had any success.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

If Belbey warrants a full share, he deserves as much credit or blame as anyone else, regardless of his 'relationships.' That said, he doesn't have the power of 'drafting' people at will. He can't control players' conditioning or health.

We hamstring ourselves in calling the team "Boeheim's Army," as it seems to lock us into a primary ethos of having a predominantly alum-heavy roster.

I don't think you know what you're gonna get in these types of situations. I thought Andrew White would shoot the lights out. Not so much. I thought BJ would be (even) more effective. I thought Arinze would bully and punish. I thought Hak would leap over people. The fog of nostalgia and the hopefulness from a sports void may have affected my expectations. I didn't expect to win the whole thing. I prolly thought we'd just advance to the next round, but it was still disappointing to see us come out in 'typical SU fashion,' seeming to take too much for granted, while the other team played harder. It was really telling to see how our defensive intensity picked up at/around the ludicrous end 4 minute mark, when it was most desperate. If we play with that degree of passion earlier, we're a better team. The zone doesn't help to inspire that kind of 'burn to win,' and i feel like with older legs and less gel time, the zone is more easily exploited than it is in college.

 

[dasher]

If Belbey warrants a full share, he deserves as much credit or blame as anyone else, regardless of his 'relationships.' That said, he doesn't have the power of 'drafting' people at will. He can't control players' conditioning or health.

We hamstring ourselves in calling the team "Boeheim's Army," as it seems to lock us into a primary ethos of having a predominantly alum-heavy roster.

I don't think you know what you're gonna get in these types of situations. I thought Andrew White would shoot the lights out. Not so much. I thought BJ would be (even) more effective. I thought Arinze would bully and punish. I thought Hak would leap over people. The fog of nostalgia and the hopefulness from a sports void may have affected my expectations. I didn't expect to win the whole thing. I prolly thought we'd just advance to the next round, but it was still disappointing to see us come out in 'typical SU fashion,' seeming to take too much for granted, while the other team played harder. It was really telling to see how our defensive intensity picked up at/around the ludicrous end 4 minute mark, when it was most desperate. If we play with that degree of passion earlier, we're a better team. The zone doesn't help to inspire that kind of 'burn to win,' and i feel like with older legs and less gel time, the zone is more easily exploited than it is in college.

If the team wasn't named Boeheims Army or Syracuse centered, none of us would care.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

If the team wasn't named Boeheims Army or Syracuse centered, none of us would care.

I agree with the second half of that. That wasn't the point.

 

[dasher]

I agree with the second half of that. That wasn't the point.

I understand. It's just that the whole interest is that it is a Syracuse team. If it wasn't, speaking only for myself, I wouldn't turn the tv on. Instead, it's must see tv.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Thomas Bryant and Kevin Huerter would be playing for Boeheim's Army right now if it wasn't for those meddling sanctions.

 

[MSOrange]

I understand. It's just that the whole interest is that it is a Syracuse team. If it wasn't, speaking only for myself, I wouldn't turn the tv on. Instead, it's must see tv.

Exactly. Only reason I watch is because it's primarily Syracuse alums. I've watched literally less than 15 minutes total of any other game in the entire 5 years of TBT. Summer is time to watch baseball for me and explore my other non-sports interests before football starts again.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Thomas Bryant and Kevin Huerter would be playing for Boeheim's Army right now if it wasn't for those meddling sanctions.

So you're saying JB would have prevented them from making the NBA?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Exactly. Only reason I watch is because it's primarily Syracuse alums. I've literally less than 15 minutes of any other game in the entire 5 years of TBT. Summer is time to watch baseball for me and explore my other non-sports interests before football starts again.

This sums it up pretty good...


All the fans show up in costume.

 

[007]

A couple of things [good post, BTW, Tom].

This tournament is about scoring points, ball movement, and making shots. Our components are mismatched, and haven't meshed as capable of playing the unselfish team ball that seems to thrive in TBT.

So, in terms of changes, I think one thing stands out. Please don't take this as a "zone v. man" debate like we have about our team, but the zone has to go. Unlike our actual program, zone here makes ZERO sense. For one thing, the players we face are knock down shooters -- and if they have a little bit of extra room / time / space, the shots are practically automatic. Second, that problem is exacerbated by our players sucking at zone -- they conserve their energy on defense and don't cover enough ground to make a zone effective. Shelve the zone, except situationally.

Next, I think we need to emulate most of the successful teams and go smaller. Lineup should be a true lead guard, two shooting guards, a wing who can board, and a versatile forward manning the middle. Carry one center for defensive purposes [a la Watkins / Riley] -- because some matchups that might be good. But otherwise, give me a Hak or a McCullough and let them play the center position.

It is great to have the opportunity to see our old players suit up again -- and to see guys like White / BJ Johnson who we barely got to know during their careers. But if the intent is to win, then we need pieces that fit together better, have better complimentary skill sets, and who fit the mold of what this tournament requires to be successful. And while I dearly love Devendorf and Gillon, they can't defend anyone. We need players who don't give up more points than they contribute.

Finally, I think that JB nailed it during the interview when he suggested that the team needs a shorter rotation of guys [funny, right?]. I know that these guys have commitments, and that it is hard for them to take time out of their lives to do this for a week or two over the summer. But I think some of the players get lost in the shuffle. An ideal rotation / squad would have 8 players* -- with a reserve guard, wing, and maybe the team's lone center [per above].

So what would that type of roster look like?

PG -- Ennis [now that he is no longer in the NBA]
CG -- Triche
SG -- Rautins
CF -- Fair [or dare I dream, Wes?]
PF -- McCullough [younger legs than the venerable Hak]

Reserve G -- Malichi Richardson [if he's out of NBA, which looks probable]
Reserve -- Gbinije
Reserve C -- Watkins


* I recognize that 8 players would make it difficult to practice

Good points, RF

Couldn't agree more with your point about the zone. It might not be blatantly obvious, but the rotations JB's zone require by all 5 guys are physically demanding. It's so much more than knowing where to be (and that takes long enough to learn). It's about having the stamina, reaction speed and length to cover all the ground that the rotations demand.

When you play the zone the way BA did, it's like taking candy from a baby for the teams that move the ball.

 

[Consigliere]

The issue is three games in three days. Older players take longer to recover and if you're a big with a history of knee problems recovery is a must! Short of changing the format which would prefer. (Playing Friday night and again Saturday at noon is crazy.)

Spot on. If you work it out we tipped off 3 games in the span of 43 hours. Desperately needed fresh legs for interior D and rebounding. Actually thought AO looked pretty good Friday, quickly gassed on Saturday and completely shot yesterday. Mookie stepped in to plug the gap Saturday but he was shot yesterday as well. As much as the 3 and D approach dominates you need a stopper down low and ypou need to control your defensive boards. Blame the zone if you will but those guys couldn't get off their feet yesterday. McCullough would have been a big asset and I agree with IM's post that Roberson would be a good fit as well. This certainly has been an event for reclamation projects!

Outside of that I expect Devo and Triche to be out there for at least a couple more years. Think Andrew White and BJ will be great additions going forward. And wouldn't be surprised to see Tyus Battle become a mainstay. Beyond Syracuse grads I'd keep Tyler Cavanaugh on the back burner too as a poor man's Lydon.

Can't imagine how a 7 or 8 man roster can compete in this compressed schedule format. We had 9 and could have used 12 but agree a bit with JB. Blackwell's frequent substitutions seem more designed to balance minutes than to drive the flow of the game.

 

[HoustonCuse]

You guys know I support Syracuse using the zone. Boeheim's Army should not use the zone, however.

Those two statements are for the same reason: SU spends considerable time mastering the zone. BA does not. When you don't spend considerable time on it, the zone is tavern league. They'd have been way better off man to man for the sole purpose that it is a more familiar defense and it is easier to get a group of individuals to understand what they are supposed to do with little prep time.

On top of that, a good number of key players for BA historically are the guys who were poorest in the zone (Devo, White, Gillon, Donte Greene in years past, etc).

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I understand. It's just that the whole interest is that it is a Syracuse team. If it wasn't, speaking only for myself, I wouldn't turn the tv on. Instead, it's must see tv.

That’s the point I agreed with. I was never criticizing that aspect. It’s how/why we identify with the team, without too many mercenaries. I mentioned it because it still is a limiting factor and some people seek to be questioning the team’s makeup as if we can just draft from some imaginary pool.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

yeah, the program has really suffered because it was soft. We haven't had any success.

So in your mind, lack of rebounding and winning loose balls is a strength of this program?
Imagine our talent, with MSU tenacity.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It’s kind of strange to me that these guys play zone. Like these guys have all spent years in their respective leagues since leaving syracuse playing man to man. I would imagine that they have more proficiency with THAT. But it’s BOEHEIM’S Army so they have to, like, be “on brand?”

 

[tbonezone]

hey it's pure entertainment. were you entertained ?

 

[RF2044]

So in your mind, lack of rebounding and winning loose balls is a strength of this program?
Imagine our talent, with MSU tenacity.

Tenacity sure didn't help them when we kicked their arses in a de facto home game for MSU in 2018 NCAA tournament.

Otherwise, how did you enjoy the play mrs. Lincoln?

 

[dasher]

So in your mind, lack of rebounding and winning loose balls is a strength of this program?
Imagine our talent, with MSU tenacity.

You don't have the success we have had by being soft. Just another negative talking point. How hard you are or how soft you are shows in close games. We do fine in close games. Against MSU too.