Well so much for the ACC being weak ..

[Alsacs]

Nothing of any substance came out of those 2 witch hunts.

We were 100% guilty on the first probation. What are you spewing.

The second one was 4 misdemeanors that the NCAA treated as felonies and overpunished but again we did those misdemeanors.

This isn’t a conspiracy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For me, personally, we were good back then.

Now, we seem to be a perennial bubble team that makes a run in the tourney if we get in.

Conference perception means a lot when you’re Syracuse now vs Syracuse then.

See, Wake Forest. Regardless of what they did in the NIT - because, who cares - they should have been in the Tournament. They weren’t due to conference perception this year.

It helps us as much as it helped Providence and Seton Hall when we were regularly getting to the second weekend From 85 until 2013.

None.

Coach K is a phony, grads from other schools root for them because they live life with a boomer mentality, and I will never pull for UNC and their arrogant fans. Frankly they are the last teams I would ever root for in all of sports. I’d pull for the Dallas Cowboys or Bill Belichick before them.

 

[Alsacs]

For me, personally, we were good back then.

Now, we seem to be a perennial bubble team that makes a run in the tourney if we get in.

Conference perception means a lot when you’re Syracuse now vs Syracuse then.

See, Wake Forest. Regardless of what they did in the NIT - because, who cares - they should have been in the Tournament. They weren’t due to conference perception this year.

False.
Wake’s resume sucked.
They didn’t beat Duke.
They played nobody in the nonconference because they weren’t expected to be good.

If they wanted to make the tournament beat Boston College in the ACCT and play good teams in the nonconference.
They didn’t deserve to make the tournament.

The ACC needs to perform in November and December if they want to get extra teams in the tournament for beating only ACC teams.

 

[CousCuse]

We were 100% guilty on the first probation. What are you spewing.

The second one was 4 misdemeanors that the NCAA treated as felonies and overpunished but again we did those misdemeanors.

This isn’t a conspiracy.

There was no findings of players getting paid to play for SU or systematic grade fixing to allow eligibility in either probe.

 

[Scooch]

The mental gymnastics our fans are using to pull for the two blue bloods in this conference because of conference superiority is something else. Who the fluck here ever pulled for UConn or Georgetown in March FFS.

Thank you. I used to root for Big East teams post-2003, because of the raid on the conference and the need to prove we were still elite.

I don’t feel compelled to root for ACC teams and *certainly* not Duke or UNC. I hope they lose in agonizing fashion every time they step on the court.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

False.
Wake’s resume sucked.
They didn’t beat Duke.
They played nobody in the nonconference because they weren’t expected to be good.

If they wanted to make the tournament beat Boston College in the ACCT and play good teams in the nonconference.
They didn’t deserve to make the tournament.

The ACC needs to perform in November and December if they want to get extra teams in the tournament for beating only ACC teams.

Going 13-7 in ACC play plus 2-1 OOC vs the P5 (LSU was the L), is a better resume than the MWC teams or San Fran.

San Fran went 10-6 in the WCC didn't beat Gonzaga or St Marys and were only 1-0 against the P5 (at Arizona State). They also lost OOC to Loyola and Grand Canyon. There is no way to justify them getting in over UVA let alone Wake.

Wyoming went 13-5 in the MWC (4th place), and was 2-4 vs the Top 3. They were 1-2 vs the P5 (at Washington in OT). That is better than UVA?

San Diego State was 1-2 vs the P5 (neutral vs Arizona State) and also lost at BYU OOC. They went 2-4 vs the Top 2 in the MWC finishing in 3rd place. They did beat St Mary's OOC, but that is enough to beat out Wake?

 

[Bayside44]

We were 100% guilty on the first probation. What are you spewing.

The second one was 4 misdemeanors that the NCAA treated as felonies and overpunished but again we did those misdemeanors.

This isn’t a conspiracy.

First probation was driven by two "I journalists" looking to win an award and get a better job. So in a down and bad economy (this is boarded up downtown, Smith Corona leaving, etc) they went after all the local business leaders for free spaghetti and low car leases like they were oligarchs. We were no different than anyone else.

They spoke to one of my political science classes, to this day I cannot believe it.

 

[Alsacs]

Going 13-7 in ACC play plus 2-1 OOC vs the P5 (LSU was the L), is a better resume than the MWC teams or San Fran.

San Fran went 10-6 in the WCC didn't beat Gonzaga or St Marys and were only 1-0 against the P5 (at Arizona State). They also lost OOC to Loyola and Grand Canyon. There is no way to justify them getting in over UVA let alone Wake.

Wyoming went 13-5 in the MWC (4th place), and was 2-4 vs the Top 3. They were 1-2 vs the P5 (at Washington in OT). That is better than UVA?

San Diego State was 1-2 vs the P5 (neutral vs Arizona State) and also lost at BYU OOC. They went 2-4 vs the Top 2 in the MWC finishing in 3rd place. They did beat St Mary's OOC, but that is enough to beat out Wake?

They beat the worst P5 team Oregon State and Northwestern that finished 13th of 14 in the Big Ten.

If Wake beat Indiana and played Auburn, Villanova and our schedule they get the benefit of the doubt.

Their schedule in the nonconference was a joke and they didn’t beat Duke.

Wake should have beaten BC if they wanted in.
I got no problem rewarding midmajors if the P5 teams don’t deserve it.

 

[Alsacs]

First probation was driven by two "I journalists" looking to win an award and get a better job. So in a down and bad economy (this is boarded up downtown, Smith Corona leaving, etc) they went after all the local business leaders for free spaghetti and low car leases like they were oligarchs. We were no different than anyone else.

They spoke to one of my political science classes, to this day I cannot believe it.

Syracuse admitted boosters gave players cash, free housing, meals, and other benefits.

In the 1993 probation.

I get it wasn’t just here but we weren’t innocent of the charges.

 

[CardiacCuse]

2 of the factors which contribute to this surprising ACC success and overall unrepresentative success of teams i.e their seed ...imo

1 - early season records are overwieghted and non-indicative especially for this portal season where most teams were all new and had to find chemistry throughout the year...even moreson than other seasons this year was about growth and being good IN MARCH not december...in fact a lot of teams that were very good in november - baylor, purdue, gonzaga etc either got worse or didn't improve much at all throughout the season...but rankings and perceptions of teams and conferences were all formed in november and december - deceivingly

2. every year is a rebuilding year now in the sport for almost all teams basically...so even though blue bloods do have easier access to talent...the ability for ANY PROGRAM to create a truly DOMINANT team is much lower than ever. yeah duke has 5 first rounders which is an advantage but theyre all freshman and not close to fully developed players...So a "top ten team" is not nearly as far from a top 25 or even 64 team as has historically been the case in NCAABB...portal defections really hurt the chances of midmajors building a good team but overall - the teams in sport are closer in performance level to each other than back in the day...and anyone can beat anyone.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

They beat the worst P5 team Oregon State and Northwestern that finished 13th of 14 in the Big Ten.

If Wake beat Indiana and played Auburn, Villanova and our schedule they get the benefit of the doubt.

Their schedule in the nonconference was a joke and they didn’t beat Duke.

Wake should have beaten BC if they wanted in.
I got no problem rewarding midmajors if the P5 teams don’t deserve it.

Wake had a poor resume. But that resume was better than San Fran or Wyoming. That is my point. There is no way to justify having San Fran or Wyoming in the NCAAT this year. They both did nothing OOC or in conference. If not Wake then take A&M or someone else. You cannot hold Wake's resume against them and ignore the resumes of teams that didn't get in. You need to have 36 at larges so there will always be weak resume teams. If you are a mid major with little OOC, didn't win your conference, or didn't finish 2nd with a dominate 1st place team, you shouldn't be taken over a bubble P5 team.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2 of the factors which contribute to this surprising ACC success and overall unrepresentative success of teams i.e their seed ...imo

1 - early season records are overwieghted and non-indicative especially for this portal season where most teams were all new and had to find chemistry throughout the year...even moreson than other seasons this year was about growth and being good IN MARCH not december...in fact a lot of teams that were very good in november - baylor, purdue, gonzaga etc either got worse or didn't improve much at all throughout the season...but rankings and perceptions of teams and conferences were all formed in november and december - deceivingly

2. every year is a rebuilding year now in the sport for almost all teams basically...so even though blue bloods do have easier access to talent...the ability for ANY PROGRAM to create a truly DOMINANT team is much lower than ever. yeah duke has 5 first rounders which is an advantage but theyre all freshman and not close to fully developed players...So a "top ten team" is not nearly as far from a top 25 or even 64 team as has historically been the case in NCAABB...portal defections really hurt the chances of midmajors building a good team but overall - the teams in sport are closer in performance level to each other than back in the day...and anyone can beat anyone.

Early season shouldn't matter as much for P5 schools as in conference. Mid majors need to prove themselves because of weak conference schedules so it should matter for them. No team is the same in November as in March. Putting more weight early seems silly. P5 teams should be punished for these losses in comparison to other P5 teams. But not in comparison to mid majors.

 

[Bayside44]

Syracuse admitted boosters gave players cash, free housing, meals, and other benefits.

In the 1993 probation.

I get it wasn’t just here but we weren’t innocent of the charges.

Right how many times have you been pulled over going 62 in a 55. I'd go home and at St. John's in the summers all those guys drove the same cars our guys did.

What SU hasn't / probably cannot do in comparison to what UNC did is dump tens of millions in legal fees to fight back on this stuff.

 

[orangecuse]

The ACC was 6-8 in the ACC challenge it was not blown out.

Tbe ACC also sucked in the nonconference portion of the season.

Conference was lucky to get 5 teams.
North Carolina was preseason ranked top 25. They lost games to Purdue and Tennessee. The team has played well the last few weeks but the team underachieved during November and December.

Wake Forest played nobody in the nonconference they didn’t make
The tournament because of that. Not the conference fault.
Virginia wasn’t good enough either.

The conference has had one team really surprise and Miami has played well.

North Carolina and Duke were talented teams and just won games.

Spot on again as you typically are IMO.

You know, if only more teams from St. Peter's Metro Atlantic conference had gotten into the Dance, we'd all then know just how good of a conference that was too.

There's a basis why UNC was an 8 seed, and Miami a 10. Just as we were a 10 and got to the Final Four in '16. It's the Dance, and it's called March Madness for a reason, and why so many folks tune into it in the first place...just about anything is possible.

Yea for the ACC though!

 

[CousCuse]

Right how many times have you been pulled over going 62 in a 55. I'd go home and at St. John's in the summers all those guys drove the same cars our guys did.

What SU hasn't / probably cannot do in comparison to what UNC did is dump tens of millions in legal fees to fight back on this stuff.

In every culture in history, entertainers and athletes have gotten the perks, and that is all the first investigation was about, perks. Lose one or two scholarships for a year or two would have been harsh but acceptable.

 

[dasher]

Syracuse admitted boosters gave players cash, free housing, meals, and other benefits.

In the 1993 probation.

I get it wasn’t just here but we weren’t innocent of the charges.

the cash was in the manner of $50 x-mas cards by one booster. The investigation didn't get what they hoped to find. I had a lot of inside knowledge of that investigation. If they knew what they could prove, the newspaper would never have run with the story. They thought there was a lot more. Maybe there was. But they didn't find it. And really, neither did the NCAA. The NCAA punished us for what they thought they knew but not what they could prove. The editor of the Post Standard said to me, and this is a quote, all we are saying is that sometimes Syracuse goes 56 mph in a 55 mph zone. A 6 month investigation for that. If JB was a nice guy like Coach Mac, they never would have printed the story.

 

[kuethstheman]

Early season shouldn't matter as much for P5 schools as in conference. Mid majors need to prove themselves because of weak conference schedules so it should matter for them. No team is the same in November as in March. Putting more weight early seems silly. P5 teams should be punished for these losses in comparison to other P5 teams. But not in comparison to mid majors.

Non-conference games are pretty much all that the committee has to go on (besides the "look test"). There are fewer and fewer late-season non-conference games, so the early season gets outsized emphasis.

 

[Madbiker]

I swear Bacot camps in the lane for 10 seconds on every offensive possession and 3 seconds is never called. That's why he gets so many offensive rebs. It's infuriating. Especially for their opponents.
By the way if you don't think the TV nets and the NCAA desperately want a Duke vs UNC matchup in the Final Four you're incredibly naive. The officiating is going to be so biased in favor of UNC to help them drop St. Peters it will be a travesty. Likely similar for Duke against Arkansas.

 

[Bayside44]

the cash was in the manner of $50 x-mas cards by one booster. The investigation didn't get what they hoped to find. I had a lot of inside knowledge of that investigation. If they knew what they could prove, the newspaper would never have run with the story. They thought there was a lot more. Maybe there was. But they didn't find it. And really, neither did the NCAA. The NCAA punished us for what they thought they knew but not what they could prove. The editor of the Post Standard said to me, and this is a quote, all we are saying is that sometimes Syracuse goes 56 mph in a 55 mph zone. A 6 month investigation for that. If JB was a nice guy like Coach Mac, they never would have printed the story.

Bam. And this is held over JB's head 30 years later without any context.

 

[DoctorBombay]

…..I’d pull for the Dallas Cowboys or Bill Belichick before them.

Ok…now you’ve gone too far!

 

[TheCusian]

The mental gymnastics our fans are using to pull for the two blue bloods in this conference because of conference superiority is something else. Who the fluck here ever pulled for UConn or Georgetown in March FFS.

Do we hate UNC and Duke as much as UConn or Georgetown? I don’t. But even while I was rooting for them to do as poorly as possible - I could still see that the conference doing well benefitted us.

It takes mental gymnastics to *not get that*

 

[TheCusian]

The 2nd round of investigations and the harsh sentence was more about Bernie Fine than the severity of the infraction. Much like the 400 phantom fouls vs Ohio St in the dance that year. NCAA is bad at doing anything with real infractions and shady at handing out shadowy ones.

 

[Day2]

A fortunate combination of playing well, good matchups and the beneficiary of some upsets.

What has surprised me the most is that neither UNC or Duke defended well during much of the season. They’ve both stepped it up.

Just spitballing here…While the ACC had a down year overall, it was probably the best conference in terms of offense. Five teams in the top 20 according to KenPom. ND not far behind. So all these mediocre defensive teams went through conference play trying to keep up with above average offensive teams. And they probably improved.

The tournament must be a breath of fresh air. A lot of these teams are offensively challenged. Or maybe they only have one or two guys you have to worry about. ACC teams are better equipped for these games compared to where they were during the non-conference. Adequate defense paired with above average is proving to be a winning formula against teams that struggle to score. Look at Texas Tech. We knew their defense could limit Duke. We also knew they would go through extended dry spells of their own. We’ll probably see the same today with Arkansas.

 

[Day2]

Syracuse admitted boosters gave players cash, free housing, meals, and other benefits.

In the 1993 probation.

I get it wasn’t just here but we weren’t innocent of the charges.

No one’s saying we were innocent. I’m sure you can agree there’s a lack of consistency with the way these punishments are handed out. There are programs like UNC and Kansas that got away with a lot worse than anything discovered during either SU probe. No one even bothers to look into Duke.

Of course, we also shoot ourselves in the foot. The existence of Newhouse pushes the Post-Standard to try harder than most media outlets in markets of this size. So 1993 happened. (It’s also a benefit. See Waters, Mike.) Doc Gross was a moron and self-reported. And, of course, JB can be a bit of a jerk. The local media and athletic departments at these other schools protect their programs.

 

[jncuse]

This tournament has shown a few key things regarding the ACC.

1. The top of the ACC was fine and the teams that got in were on par with others that got in.
- Duke is almost always a very good team (unfortunately)
- UNC had plenty of talent and has improved tremendously
- Miami, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech were porbably like any other 5 to 11 seed in the tournament that could literally do anything in March. They were probably all better than their seed, but their seed was compromised by #2..

All of those teams were smeared in effect by the stupid stuff that the 9 teams in #2 below did. Having 9 teams do stupid stuff is way to much for a power conference.

2. The real problem with the ACC is what the middle, lower-middle and bottom of the pack were doing. The "bad ACC teams" group is unfortunately tending in the wrong direction. The 9 teams that had no shot at the ACC tournament and did so many idiotic things (bad losses) that it really hurt Wake, and nearly sacrificed Notre Dame and Virginia Tech.

3. You can't say it was not a down or a bad year based on what these 5 teams did in March. You have to look at what the other 10 did and how that impacted the group as a whole.


Going forward for Syracuse #2 is much more important for us. When you are an established top of the conference team you can largely ignore what the others are doing. When you are in the middle (which we are at) we damn well need to be worried about the growing number of bad teams in the ACC because that will hurt us like it did Wake. We need teams like Louisville, NC St, Georgia Tech for example to be better. And we need Virginia not to lose to James Madison and the Citadel! And we have to beat Colgate and an 0-20 team in the Big East. I have written off BC and Pitt. No expectations for them - they likely stink forever.