Well, that was ugly...

[CusefanATL]

For what?

I find the notion that Craft isn't a hacker laughable. He'd fit in well with Louisville, Pitt or Butler... just hack, hack, hack away and see what you can get away with.

for the mocking "or maybe im a reverse racist" comment

he is 1 of the best defenders i have EVER seen. And if you don't see that, I am not sure what you are watching. Maybe it is because its hard to understand how a white pg can be 1 of the best college defenders in the last 20 years or maybe even ever.

It is OK to think that. It doesnt mean you personally are racist - but it may point to some inerrant social racism.

give credit where credit is due.

 

[samspann1]

for the mocking "or maybe im a reverse racist" comment

he is 1 of the best defenders i have EVER seen. And if you don't see that, I am not sure what you are watching. Maybe it is because its hard to understand how a white pg can be 1 of the best college defenders in the last 20 years or maybe even ever.

It is OK to think that. It doesnt mean you personally are racist - but it may point to some inerrant social racism.

give credit where credit is due.

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that if the rules were enforced against Craft, he'd be far less effective on the defensive end.

The reverse racism comment was a direct quote from poppyhart's post. Maybe he's subconsciously racist, but to assume that everyone who doesn't appreciate Craft's game is racist, is ignorant, IMO.

 

[Cowtown]

Didn't see the game, just read through the thread. And not trying to pick a fight with anyone. There are a few points that deserve to be made about officials.

First, the team that plays better "gets" more calls. Believe it. I've reffed for over 20 years, including several at the college level, and that's true 99.5% of the time. Yes, refs are not always right, and kick calls sometimes. You should see some of the situation film clips we use to teach things like block/charge, off-ball coverage, etc. Incidentally, for my money Ed Hightower - whom I've met - is a train wreck, so we all see some things differently.

Second, if you're watching a game on TV or even live from 10 rows up, you see a different game than the refs do. And there's no replay for them - except in prescribed circumstances that haven't been totally figured out yet. But that's not a bad thing always, because they don't have idiot announcers in their ears, like we all do when watching games on the tube. And know this, most announcers don't know , so stop listening to them when they say stupid things. Especially about rules. As well, (edit) ignore take with a grain of salt those sitting at courtside, who don't move and get screened off all the time.

Which brings me to the third point. I've watched games on TV while hanging in an SU fan board chatroom - no, not here - and seen what I thought were the right calls, only to read a stream of howling over how we're getting boned by the refs. And not just once in a while, either. So I have this to offer: When I was a player I used to think, "I can do better than that. Anyone can." So if you think you can do better, by all means get out and do it. There aren't enough of us. But be prepared for a humbling like nothing you've ever experienced. And if you make it past that, and become an actual R, be prepared for seasons of enjoyment doing something that very few can do at all, let alone do well.

PS: I coached at my HS for many years also. And if anyone thinks there's even a single coach in America who wouldn't love to have Aaron Craft or even a couple of him, you're watching the wrong game. Have fun. Peace out.

 

[longtimefan]

Irish fans only care about football because the university only cares about football. According to the Irish fans on their own message boards, ND's bb facilities are so bad they will never get a coach better than Brey until they upgrade them.

As for MSG, the ACC has three great drawers presently in Duke, SU, and UNC. Not sure any of the others will draw huge crowds. Pitt played Stanford at Barclays and that game drew a pitiful 4K on a Tuesday evening and played Cincy at MSG in front of 8K, again on a Tuesday evening, but that was a double-header with Florida and Memphis afterward.

Cheers,
Neil

I trust you and your sources re: what ND spends on their hoops program. But, they must care about more than just football. See their results in women's hoops and many Olympic sports.

 

[LennX6]

Game reminded me of our collapse against BC in the opening round of the BET in 81-82. Up 8 with less than 2 minutes to go BC scored 10 unanswered points to take the game. Notre Dame one upped us because I think they waited longer to start their collapse. Of course our collapse occurred in the days before the 3 point shot and with no shot clock limiting our possession.

Last second shot by this guy did us in. Can;t remember exactly where it was on the floor but I remember his number was #2

 

[Mano22]

Agree, this Craft hate is just absurd. Not necessarily racism, but how on earth can you hate this kid? Straight an an arrow, gives 110% in everything he does (on and off the court.) When you factor in those rosy red cheeks, he is probably my favorite non-Cuse player in the country.

 

[orange79]

Agree, this Craft hate is just absurd. Not necessarily racism, but how on earth can you hate this kid? Straight an an arrow, gives 110% in everything he does (on and off the court.) When you factor in those rosy red cheeks, he is probably my favorite non-Cuse player in the country.

The same way people on opposing teams hated GMac. Although this kid gets away with more crap than GMac ever did (or tried to do, for that matter).

 

[TBCuse11]

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that if the rules were enforced against Craft, he'd be far less effective on the defensive end.

The reverse racism comment was a direct quote from poppyhart's post. Maybe he's subconsciously racist, but to assume that everyone who doesn't appreciate Craft's game is racist, is ignorant, IMO.

This is spot on. It is impossible to watch Craft play without crigning. The dude literally plays with different rules and it makes no sense. That play many have spoken about where he took a dive and then smashed Grant (all the while giving his whiny, confused look) was a joke. He disgraced himself. Cant stand the kid. Enjoy Europe next year and good riddance.

 

[TBCuse11]

The same way people on opposing teams hated GMac. Although this kid gets away with more crap than GMac ever did (or tried to do, for that matter).

Phew. I thought u were going to compare Craft to GMac. Nice save.

Craft is a dirty player. if people want to like that, god bless. These people must also love Rodney Harrison, Ndomikan Suh, Kevin Garnett and Dennis Rodman.

 

[moqui]

I don't care about Craft one way or another, and I had no skin in this game at all. Just want to make that clear before I respond to this:

that last call where he stripped grant was without a doubt a clean play and off of grant.

sorry, but that is absolutely wrong. There is supposedly a new emphasis on hand check this year - no touching the offensive player at all, let alone trying to "steer" him as he drives. I watched the replay of that last play half a dozen times, and Craft had his hand on Grant's hip the entire drive. Hey, it happens - bad calls even out over the course of the game. I don't care about that and I'm not saying ND was screwed. What I'm saying is that it was no doubt a foul. Sometimes it gets called, most of the time it doesn't. But it was certainly a foul.

Oh, and poppy - Craft is "hated" on this board because of the part he played in shutting Dion Waiters down in the 2012 regional final. He'd barely get a mention on this board if the teams hadn't met.

 

[CusefanATL]

I don't care about Craft one way or another, and I had no skin in this game at all. Just want to make that clear before I respond to this:


sorry, but that is absolutely wrong. There is supposedly a new emphasis on hand check this year - no touching the offensive player at all, let alone trying to "steer" him as he drives. I watched the replay of that last play half a dozen times, and Craft had his hand on Grant's hip the entire drive. Hey, it happens - bad calls even out over the course of the game. I don't care about that and I'm not saying ND was screwed. What I'm saying is that it was no doubt a foul. Sometimes it gets called, most of the time it doesn't. But it was certainly a foul.

Oh, and poppy - Craft is "hated" on this board because of the part he played in shutting Dion Waiters down in the 2012 regional final. He'd barely get a mention on this board if the teams hadn't met.

we will agree to disagree.

i HATE the new rule but if THAT is called, then basketball will not be fun to play or to watch.

 

[CusefanATL]

Phew. I thought u were going to compare Craft to GMac. Nice save.

Craft is a dirty player. if people want to like that, god bless. These people must also love Rodney Harrison, Ndomikan Suh, Kevin Garnett and Dennis Rodman.

i dont mean to be condescending or holier than thou.

but this comment is very sad and troubling. he is NOTHING like those players and not a dirty player.

has he flopped and complained or gotten away with handchecks? sure he has.

you are literally hating him just for some reason and making things up to make him look bad. but there is no evidence of him ever being dirty or throwing a cheap shot like some of those players you listed.

 

[CusefanATL]

Phew. I thought u were going to compare Craft to GMac. Nice save.

Craft is a dirty player. if people want to like that, god bless. These people must also love Rodney Harrison, Ndomikan Suh, Kevin Garnett and Dennis Rodman.

you could have used stockton as an example. if you consider some hipchecking and clawing "dirty" stockton was the dirtiest.

But that is not "dirty" like stomping on a defenseless player or kicking a camera guy in the nuts or wrecklessly aiming at a defenseless receiver. I cant believe I am the only 1 that thinks this?

he isnt even close to bruce bowen... who could have ended careers by trying to put his foot where he thought the other players would land.

 

[TBCuse11]

you could have used stockton as an example. if you consider some hipchecking and clawing "dirty" stockton was the dirtiest.

But that is not "dirty" like stomping on a defenseless player or kicking a camera guy in the nuts or wrecklessly aiming at a defenseless receiver. I cant believe I am the only 1 that thinks this?

he isnt even close to bruce bowen... who could have ended careers by trying to put his foot where he thought the other players would land.

Not sure why you have an unhealthy love for this kid, but you have an agenda and thats fine. Kid is not a great defender (he hacks, grabs, slides in on charges) and he is a poor offensive player. You have your right to think he is not these things, so time to move on to the next topic. You are set in your ways on this one.

 

[CusefanATL]

Not sure why you have an unhealthy love for this kid, but you have an agenda and thats fine. Kid is not a great defender (he hacks, grabs, slides in on charges) and he is a poor offensive player. You have your right to think he is not these things, so time to move on to the next topic. You are set in your ways on this one.

no... YOU said he is a dirty player and compared him to 3 of the dirtiest players in the world. hacking and grabbing and sliding on charges is no way, dirty. at all. ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

I hate aaron craft - the same was i hate jj reddick - the same way i hate chris thomas - the same way i hate roy hibbert.

at least im not delusional and completely out of line in my hatred.

 

[bnoro]

Not sure why you have an unhealthy love for this kid, but you have an agenda and thats fine. Kid is not a great defender (he hacks, grabs, slides in on charges) and he is a poor offensive player. You have your right to think he is not these things, so time to move on to the next topic. You are set in your ways on this one.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...