Well, this is interesting | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Well, this is interesting

How many academic scholarship students miss 10-20 class days due to travel required by their scholarship? Or have to choose classes/major based around a schedule required by their scholarship award? Or can have that scholarship removed, or reduced, without specific quantifiable criteria (GPA, academic standing, etc) by the person in control of their award? Do you know of scholarship recipients who cannot freely transfer to another institution unless they are approved by the person awarding the scholarship?

Better yet, is there anyone else on this board who has had a student come into their office in Feb. of the student's 1st year to say that they need to transfer because the head coach of their sport is taking away their full scholarship- after said student tore an ACL in the 1st game of the season. Have you had students tell you that coaches told them to choose between Major X and their sport because required classes cut into too much practice time?

Yes athletes get some perks, but not every scholarship athlete is a fb/hoops player with pro aspirations, and there are some challenges that these students face that others don't, and the current system does not protect them.
 
Kids with athletic scholarships transfer all the time without problems, are there a few that have issues, sure. Just like an academic scholarship student who may have a problem with a teacher or a program that they are in. Now if they want to transfer they lose that scholarship and the time they put in. Lots of issues for both. Not saying there aren't issues for players, I played basketball in college and know the time demands, even though it was only D3. Ohio State is notorious for not letting players take the majors they want, ask Robert Smith. Some schools do though, many doctors and lawyers who played D1 sports as an example. Players don't go into this with their eyes closed especially if they are concerned about academics. Coaches and schools get reputations for having issues with players. If players don't take that into account... Everyone knows players get recruited over, it happens, something they have to deal with. Happens in the real world also. As you said not all have pro aspirations so go to class and get your degree. And yes I recently had a parent tell me their daughter was transferring from a school where she had a partial academic scholarship to go into a specific field, when she realized she didn't want to pursue that field, she was told she would no longer qualify for the academic award. So she had to transfer to a SUNY school to be able to afford college. Similar thing happened to my niece. It does happen. Many different circumstances. I understand your point but again, getting the opportunity, especially at a pricey private school to get a degree with virtually no debt (for full scholly kids) is such a huge advantage. Even many SUNY kids are coming out of school with a decent amount of debt.

Not every school or coach is ethical or fair, nor are all businesses, teachers, ceo's or managers. Are some schools making money off the kids that play certain sports, sure, but most schools aren't rolling in the dough with their athletics programs.

I know kids who have unpaid internships who have to miss classes during the school year to get to where they need they need to go, takes a lot time out of their day, but it is a choice they make to try and better themselves and give them a chance at a better future. Like I said there are issues on both sides of the fence, I just don't have as much sympathy for players who want to make some money in college off their playing when even high performing students may come out of college with enormous debt if they choose to go to a private school that doesn't provide much aid for their given financial situation. We aren't talking about an enormous amount of students who would even warrant getting paid a significant amount of money. Very few basketball programs like SU or Football programs that can make enough money to keep their athletics budget in the black. I don't have a huge problem with a small stipend, some research students get a stipend depending on what they are working on. Is there some inequity's with the system, sure but that exists in all levels of society.
 
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SU2NASA said:
How about people on academic scholarships? What about their costs not covered by the current scholarship model?
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Last I checked, I thought they could get jobs...

Unless of course they are spending 30 hours a week practicing whatever course they are studying or Saturday at the Science Olympiad for College students then spending Sunday going over the film from the Science Olympiad so they can perform better the next Saturday.
 
CuseOnly said:
Last I checked, I thought they could get jobs...

Unless of course they are spending 30 hours a week practicing whatever course they are studying or Saturday at the Science Olympiad for College students then spending Sunday going over the film from the Science Olympiad so they can perform better the next Saturday.
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Boo ***ing hoo. No one's forcing them to play a sport.

Will you help them carry their cross?
 
SU2NASA said:
Boo ***ing hoo. No one's forcing them to play a sport.

Will you help them carry their cross?
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I can do that too...Boo ***ing hoo, what about academia, why don't they get more money too, even though they have 30 more hours a week than a "student-athlete".

Correct no on is forcing them to play a sport but an awful lot of people are watching them on Saturdays. Maybe we should not have them practice during the week so they can all get jobs and just show up on Saturdays to play.

Maybe the math scholar can get paid to carry their pads by the University in their spare time.

I don't see any math or science scholars on TV at 3:30 on a Saturday so I could care less how much $$ they get. Facts are facts, whether we are forcing them to play or not, they have no time to earn any income over what they are given.
 
SWC75 said:
That's what I think is really needed, not "salaries", which might be greater at one school than another. Just give athletes the full scholarships anybody else gets so they won't have to trade trinkets for tattoos, etc. And I see no problem with them making endorsement deals, as other "amateur" athletes do. There could be a rule set limiting those endorsements to whatever their market value is so phony endorsement deals wouldn't be used as recruiting incentives.
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That would be based on opinion and can be manipulated to the point that corruption is obvious and who could really challenge the compensation.
 
retro44 said:
That would be based on opinion and can be manipulated to the point that corruption is obvious and who could really challenge the compensation.
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The NCAA or whatever organization the Big Five set up to replace it. And you can figure out market value on more than an "opinion".
 
CuseOnly said:
I can do that too...Boo ***ing hoo, what about academia, why don't they get more money too, even though they have 30 more hours a week than a "student-athlete".

Correct no on is forcing them to play a sport but an awful lot of people are watching them on Saturdays. Maybe we should not have them practice during the week so they can all get jobs and just show up on Saturdays to play.

Maybe the math scholar can get paid to carry their pads by the University in their spare time.

I don't see any math or science scholars on TV at 3:30 on a Saturday so I could care less how much $$ they get. Facts are facts, whether we are forcing them to play or not, they have no time to earn any income over what they are given.
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Trust me, I'd much rather have academia getting more money. I'd rather more money be going toward students that are coming in to try and cure cancer.

They receive full tuition, room and board, and they're fed on campus, and they receive academic support that non-athletes are not entitled to... all for free. 99% of them will never play pro, and they receive this free education worth upwards of two hundred thousand dollars in exchange for having a skill that relates in no way to the education that they are supposedly there for. At least the academic scholar is bringing a tangible gift that relates to the university's mission.

And this argument that they bring in money for the university... As has been said by many other posters, very few ADs run in the black.

Screw it, let's just abolish athletic scholarships completely. I played hockey at SU, as other posters on here that also played and have kids that play on the team know, it's run like a top-level program (and the season goes longer than football). Practiced every day, worked out, travelled and played games long distance. And most of us did this with no scholarships of any kind. I put in more than 30 hours per week and I had what I think is a pretty ambitious major. Oh, and I got a part-time job on top of it. So if they don't like their lot, *** 'em.
 
Ath. Dept's don't run in the black because most of the people running them are running them so they don't make $. There is little incentive for them to turn a "profit" because they return it to other areas of campus, so instead they have jacked up the salaries for themselves and coaches, built ridiculous facilities (what locker room needs a waterfall or Brazilian wood flooring?), etc. in order to end up with no profit.
 
Full_Rebar said:
Ath. Dept's don't run in the black because most of the people running them are running them so they don't make $. There is little incentive for them to turn a "profit" because they return it to other areas of campus, so instead they have jacked up the salaries for themselves and coaches, built ridiculous facilities (what locker room needs a waterfall or Brazilian wood flooring?), etc. in order to end up with no profit.
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The universities wouldn't be financing big-time athletic programs if it didn't produce desirable financial rewards to do so. It may not show up on the books of the athletic department, but it's there.
 
Athletic programs also serve as an advertising medium for the schools. Primarily to recruit future students as well as donors/sponsors of academic and research programs. It's also a convenient means to relate to alumni.
 
Full_Rebar said:
Ath. Dept's don't run in the black because most of the people running them are running them so they don't make $. There is little incentive for them to turn a "profit" because they return it to other areas of campus, so instead they have jacked up the salaries for themselves and coaches, built ridiculous facilities (what locker room needs a waterfall or Brazilian wood flooring?), etc. in order to end up with no profit.
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Except for the upper tier SEC/Big10 and Texas most receive subsidies from the college and not the other way around. Sure many may spend what they have and some to try and catch up but unless you are in a power conference you don't have enough revenue to spend alot anyways.

Virgina for example in 2011 had revenues of 78M and expenses of 72M showing a surplus of 6M. What they don't tell you is that 13M was received from the school as a subsidy and the athletic dept really didn't run a surplus. Would the AD spend as much if he didn't have the extra 13M, I don't know but most schools are getting a subsidy. For the non P5 conferencs schools they couldn't survive without the school kicking in a large percentage of the budget, now granted the budgets are much smaller for those schools.

Very few schools get don't subsidy from the school and even some that have turned a "profit", really didn't if you take away the subsidy.

What this all says is that P5 conference schools generate a great deal of revenue, but also spend a lot trying to make their programs desireable and winning. Doesn't always work obviously but its better than the alternative.
 
No surprise here. If you are a non P5 school, you'll give up some power to keep cashing NCAA checks.
 
SWC75 said:
The NCAA or whatever organization the Big Five set up to replace it. And you can figure out market value on more than an "opinion".
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so who is going to set the market value? the school,NCAA or a bill rapp type dealership. local sponsors will be the ones to abuse market value like that Alabama clothing store that just so happens to have autogragh jerseys on the racks and photos of players holding still packaged clothing with the store's name in the background.
 
SU2NASA said:
How about people on academic scholarships? What about their costs not covered by the current scholarship model?
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How much revenue do they bring into the university (the academic scholarship students)? Just playing devils advocate... this whole discussion about paying players is predicated on how they bring all this money into the universities but don't get their cut. Along with being responsible for the "full time" job of a student-athlete, so they don't have time to work and earn money to make up for the other costs.
 
suloyalfan said:
How much revenue do they bring into the university (the academic scholarship students)? Just playing devils advocate... this whole discussion about paying players is predicated on how they bring all this money into the universities but don't get their cut. Along with being responsible for the "full time" job of a student-athlete, so they don't have time to work and earn money to make up for the other costs.
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Most of what athletes bring to the university goes to: 1) building facilities to attract recruits, 2) paying for non-revenue sports, and 3) salaries of coaches. In comparison, academic scholars do a number of things: perform research, raise the quality and academic standing of the university, Teaching Assistants for professors, etc.

I maintain, I was an aerospace engineer, I played hockey devoting as much time as any other athlete, didn't have the ADs academic resources, and held a part-time job. I also did not have a scholarship and I'm paying student loans back. I have no sympathy for athletes receiving free tuition, room and board, and meals.

If the players think they're getting ripped off, go do something else.
 
SU2NASA said:
Most of what athletes bring to the university goes to: 1) building facilities to attract recruits, 2) paying for non-revenue sports, and 3) salaries of coaches. In comparison, academic scholars do a number of things: perform research, raise the quality and academic standing of the university, Teaching Assistants for professors, etc. I maintain, I was an aerospace engineer, I played hockey devoting as much time as any other athlete, didn't have the ADs academic resources, and held a part-time job. I also did not have a scholarship and I'm paying student loans back. I have no sympathy for athletes receiving free tuition, room and board, and meals. If the players think they're getting ripped off, go do something else.
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It's not that what they are getting isn't valuable - it's just not reflective of the amount of generated by their participation. In other words- somebody's getting rich - it's just not them.

Let's pretend you work for a giant private company. Over your time there, they have signed the largest clients generating 10x the revenue. Now let's say your base salary stays the exact same, even though you were integral to landing the clients. When asking for a small raise, they tell you that you're not there to make money but to reap the non-material benefits, like education and "doing what you love"... Meanwhile your hunched over some research or a CPU all day and see a specialist about your back problems - does that all square with you as "ok?"
 
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