Well well well lotta people suddenly on the Bell bus

[MikeSU02]

It feels like Bell can't be praised without a monster caveat about all of his shortcomings, so I acknowledge he has a lot to improve and the advanced metrics consistently bear that out.

But he's shown multiple times this season he has that baseline drive and pop, and he's been feeding Jesse well all season.

Those weren't new skills. They're just more visible because he had such an efficient game shooting the ball.

He absolutely doesn’t have baseline drive. That’s not what I was citing.

I’m just happy he expanded to more than two dribbles.

He was absolutely awful on D the first half.

And he has not been zipping in the ball into the pocket of Jesse all year.

 

[MikeSU02]

Bell was good yesterday, no doubt about it. I haven’t seen anyone else point this out, but we were down 12 when JB put him back in the game yesterday (after the under-12:00 timeout), and the team was +17 the rest of the way. That was great to see, because I think Bell has taken an unfair percentage of blame from a lot of folks on this board when the team doesn’t play well.

No. He just had his “best” game of the year and his PER is 12.

Inefficiency and bad defense is why we’ve dropped down multiple pegs.

Knocking Bell hasn’t been unfair at all.

 

[rrlbees]

Hard to criticize him being ‘camped out on the wing’ if we don’t know what he’s being instructed to do. He’s 4th, sometimes 5th, in the offensive pecking order.

When he’s camped out, often the 2 is camped out on the other side. We do that a lot because it hopefully opens the middle more for Judah penetration and getting the ball to Jesse. So you’re right, he’s instructed too because that’s one of our main sets.

 

[Eric15]

I'm not saying frosh Bell is as good as senior Jimmy Boeheim, but they're kind of similar in that when they're performing, play them, when they're not performing, don't play them. But unfortunately last year we had nobody to sub in for Jimmy and he played way too many minutes, whereas this year we have options.

 

[djcon57]

Bell was good yesterday, no doubt about it. I haven’t seen anyone else point this out, but we were down 12 when JB put him back in the game yesterday (after the under-12:00 timeout), and the team was +17 the rest of the way. That was great to see, because I think Bell has taken an unfair percentage of blame from a lot of folks on this board when the team doesn’t play well.

Using some of the arguments I’ve seen on this board...

Bell can’t get credit for the +17 because there were others players on the floor, too.

(note: I obviously don’t believe this)

 

[djcon57]

I'm not saying frosh Bell is as good as senior Jimmy Boeheim, but they're kind of similar in that when they're performing, play them, when they're not performing, don't play them. But unfortunately last year we had nobody to sub in for Jimmy and he played way too many minutes, whereas this year we have options.

when bell isnt playing well and if Joe isn’t lighting it up, I do think it’s absolutely worth looking at Taylor at 2, Bell at 3, Brown at 4 lineup.

 

[Day2]

He’s a freshman, probably never had to do the things he needs to do now. The shooting is smooth though, better than DNic, Shumpert, Sutherland, Mookie and some others. All kids who stunk as freshman. If his game grows and he commits to the other parts of the game he could go down as a great one.

His D is fine imo, long, quick and he’s not asleep off ball, he just needs to get some boards.

Shumpert did not stink as a freshman.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He absolutely doesn’t have baseline drive. That’s not what I was citing.

I’m just happy he expanded to more than two dribbles.

He was absolutely awful on D the first half.

And he has not been zipping in the ball into the pocket of Jesse all year.

Ok, look, I don't know what to tell you. He's made a similar move to get himself that baseline shot, and made the shot, 4 or 5 times this season. And yes, he has been feeding it in to Jesse all season. He has both a bounce pass, and a soft lob over the top that he's thrown into Jesse from the wing. These things have happened. He actually has been doing them all year. You know how I know? Because I've been posting about it throughout the season.

I know all the cool kids ever want to talk about is how he sucks rebounding, screws up on defense, and sure scores but doesn't have much in the way of other counting stars. That's the narrative. We still have a flawed roster and he's an easy target. It is what it is.

 

[djcon57]

Ok, look, I don't know what to tell you. He's made a similar move to get himself that baseline shot, and made the shot, 4 or 5 times this season. And yes, he has been feeding it in to Jesse all season. He has both a bounce pass, and a soft lob over the top that he's thrown into Jesse from the wing. These things have happened. He actually has been doing them all year. You know how I know? Because I've been posting about it throughout the season.

I know all the cool kids ever want to talk about is how he sucks rebounding, screws up on defense, and sure scores but doesn't have much in the way of other counting stars. That's the narrative. We still have a flawed roster and he's an easy target. It is what it is.

It’s a narrative that was backed up by having the lowest BPM for a regular starter since Kaleb Joseph. If he plays like he did last night, especially in the 2nd half, the ”narrative” will go away and will be reflected in the numbers.

 

[malpearl31]

No. He just had his “best” game of the year and his PER is 12.

Inefficiency and bad defense is why we’ve dropped down multiple pegs.

Knocking Bell hasn’t been unfair at all.

I’ve certainly never said or implied that ‘knocking Bell is unfair’. If others have made that claim, I would agree with you in saying that’s a silly position to take.

Just curious: do you subscribe to a stats site (or does anyone, for that matter) that can break down Bell’s PER into the first half of the season and the second half? I think he’s been better lately, and I’m curious to see how much his year-to-date PER is being dragged down by his poor start to the season.

 

[MikeSU02]

Ok, look, I don't know what to tell you. He's made a similar move to get himself that baseline shot, and made the shot, 4 or 5 times this season. And yes, he has been feeding it in to Jesse all season. He has both a bounce pass, and a soft lob over the top that he's thrown into Jesse from the wing. These things have happened. He actually has been doing them all year. You know how I know? Because I've been posting about it throughout the season.

I know all the cool kids ever want to talk about is how he sucks rebounding, screws up on defense, and sure scores but doesn't have much in the way of other counting stars. That's the narrative. We still have a flawed roster and he's an easy target. It is what it is.

He’s had the lowest or second lowest non shooting %s and lowest efficiency of all the forwards all year.

The dude also has a 12 PER. What do you want me to say?

The reason we haven’t been good for years is bc of inefficiency and bad D.

JB took him out yesterday bc he was getting cooked.

Glad the kid had a good game. He’s a huge reason we’ve been mediocre this year tho.

 

[malpearl31]

when bell isnt playing well and if Joe isn’t lighting it up, I do think it’s absolutely worth looking at Taylor at 2, Bell at 3, Brown at 4 lineup.

To me, that was one of the the bigger stories of the game yesterday - Taylor at the 2 and Bell at the 3 was a really productive lineup for us. If we see more of that lineup going forward (which I think would cut into Symir’s minutes), I would be happy to see that.

 

[Day2]

He’s had the lowest or second lowest non shooting %s and lowest efficiency of all the forwards all year.

The dude also has a 12 PER. What do you want me to say?

The reason we haven’t been good for years is bc of inefficiency and bad D.

JB took him out yesterday bc he was getting cooked.

Glad the kid had a good game. He’s a huge reason we’ve been mediocre this year tho.

I let the first two go, but enough already. Your overly harsh criticism of Bell’s defense in the first half is nothing more than a self-serving narrative at this point. By your own description, he was awful because he gave up two layups (valid), a three (who didn’t?), and committed a foul (god forbid). And you insist JB took him out because he was getting cooked, yet he was right back in a few minutes later.

You gave credit where credit is due in the second half, I’ll grant you that. Of course, you didn’t really have a choice, did you?

Face it, you picked the wrong game to lay it on thick. Bell made a few freshman mistakes early and wound up having a solid day. Just eat your Sbarro and move on.

 

[MikeSU02]

I’ve certainly never said or implied that ‘knocking Bell is unfair’. If others have made that claim, I would agree with you in saying that’s a silly position to take.

Just curious: do you subscribe to a stats site (or does anyone, for that matter) that can break down Bell’s PER into the first half of the season and the second half? I think he’s been better lately, and I’m curious to see how much his year-to-date PER is being dragged down by his poor start to the season.

His PER is getting marginally better. But it’s still 12. His other “advanced stats” outside of scoring aren’t good.

This is what I’d say for Bell:

>> there are plenty of roles for shooters only in a lineup, but it has to be balanced with who he’s on the floor with.

>> that becomes harder when he is not good at defense.

>> but he has the lowest or second lowest %s for assists, rebounds, etc.

Point being is this: if Bell is measured against being a shooter, which is how he should be used, that’s fine. Good job by him. But it means that all the other players have to pick up the slack. So that means prob benching Benny quick each game, Brown playing a lot, and needing Judah to be smarter and JT prob bumping Sy out of the lineup.

Yesterday half his role on O was sliding on the perimeter in catch and shoot position. Again, bc JB knows what the kid can and can’t do. When he was getting cooked, JB sat him.

So, if he’s used more for his niche. Great. If he’s hitting shots, keep playing him. If not, he’s a zero.

 

[MikeSU02]

I let the first two go, but enough already. Your overly harsh criticism of Bell’s defense in the first half is nothing more than a self-serving narrative at this point. By your own description, he was awful because he gave up two layups (valid), a three (who didn’t?), and committed a foul (god forbid). And you insist JB took him out because he was getting cooked, yet he was right back in a few minutes later.

You gave credit where credit is due in the second half, I’ll grant you that. Of course, you didn’t really have a choice, did you?

Face it, you picked the wrong game to lay it on thick. Bell made a few freshman mistakes early and wound up having a solid day. Just eat your Sbarro and move on.

JB benched him for his 1H D. He was getting cooked. My narrative is JB’s narrative.

JB uses him as a catch and shoot guy bc of his limitations.

We’re a mediocre team who just beat a bad team and I gave Bell credit.

There is a reason we’ve been bad or mediocre and it’s inefficient play. Sorry I don’t fall in love with counting stats for shots only.

 

[Day2]

JB benched him for his 1H D. He was getting cooked. My narrative is JB’s narrative.

JB uses him as a catch and shoot guy bc of his limitations.

We’re a mediocre team who just beat a bad team and I gave Bell credit.

There is a reason we’ve been bad or mediocre and it’s inefficient play. Sorry I don’t fall in love with counting stats for shots only.

He put him right back in. If his defense was as awful as you say, he would have spent more time sitting with Williams.

What’s funny is you cherry-pick stats as much as anyone. In a previous post, you didn’t even answer the question about Bell’s second half PER. Not directly. Is there a reason for that?

And in that same post, you essentially blamed Bell for everything. It’s Bell’s fault that Williams sits and Brown plays more? What? You gonna blame him for the Kennedy assassination next?

When people say the Bell criticism is getting creepy and weird, they’re talking about people like you. And they’re not wrong.

Bell has steadily improved over the course of the season. He’s still a work in progress. His defense and rebounding are getting better. He couldn’t finish the VT game because he got hurt making a hustle play. November Bell would have watched that ball go out of bounds.

I look forward to March Bell. Sbarro’s gonna be busy.

 

[PhatOrange]

He’s had the lowest or second lowest non shooting %s and lowest efficiency of all the forwards all year.

The dude also has a 12 PER. What do you want me to say?

The reason we haven’t been good for years is bc of inefficiency and bad D.

JB took him out yesterday bc he was getting cooked.

Glad the kid had a good game. He’s a huge reason we’ve been mediocre this year tho.

That’s false. He did not come out yesterday because he was being cooked. We know this because JB never yelled at him nor lectured him went he went off, and he went back in shortly thereafter.

The two layups he was coming over from the backside. It happens in the zone. so big deal. He also got over and altered a backside layup that was missed. You ignore that.

His D was fine yesterday and active. Youre pushing fake news at this point to support your first half position. Even if the 7 points were his fault they scored 40.

 

[Cuse181]

I'm not saying frosh Bell is as good as senior Jimmy Boeheim, but they're kind of similar in that when they're performing, play them, when they're not performing, don't play them. But unfortunately last year we had nobody to sub in for Jimmy and he played way too many minutes, whereas this year we have options.

Jimmy had as many “off” games as Bell has had “on,” we would all love for Bell to chip in 14 and 6, I’m just not sure he’s going to get there

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Jimmy had as many “off” games as Bell has had “on,” we would all love for Bell to chip in 14 and 6, I’m just not sure he’s going to get there

Certainly not this season.

 

[Cuse181]

Certainly not this season.

Yeah, true maybe in a couple years, but asking for him to become a physical rebounder is very unlikely. Southerland and got to 5 a game, so did Dnic but it took till their junior years

 

[PhatOrange]

Shumpert did not stink as a freshman.

He averaged 5.4 points in 14.3 mpg and 2.4 rpg

Bell is averaging 7.3 in 19.2 mpg and 1.6 rpg

 

[Day2]

He averaged 5.4 points in 14.3 mpg and 2.4 rpg

Bell is averaging 7.3 in 19.2 mpg and 1.6 rpg

He must have really struggled in conference play, because he was solid out of the gate and was a big reason why we won in Maui.

 

[VA2NY]

Ok, look, I don't know what to tell you. He's made a similar move to get himself that baseline shot, and made the shot, 4 or 5 times this season. And yes, he has been feeding it in to Jesse all season. He has both a bounce pass, and a soft lob over the top that he's thrown into Jesse from the wing. These things have happened. He actually has been doing them all year. You know how I know? Because I've been posting about it throughout the season.

I know all the cool kids ever want to talk about is how he sucks rebounding, screws up on defense, and sure scores but doesn't have much in the way of other counting stars. That's the narrative. We still have a flawed roster and he's an easy target. It is what it is.

Is this his dad or grand dad because all I see you doing is building up bell and criticizing everyone else….

 

[rrlbees]

metrics matched the eye test yesterday as well. Second highest bpm on team

Maliq tops, Joe yikes

Notre Dame vs. Syracuse Box Score (Men), January 14, 2023 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Notre Dame vs. Syracuse Box Score (Men), January 14, 2023

www.sports-reference.com

That’s what happens when you go 2-9 for 7 pts.

 

[OrangeDW]

Shumpert did not stink as a freshman.

I remember him playing a big role in that early season tourney win when we beat Indiana and Michigan, but kindve fading over the course of the season a bit - but was still a contributor.