WF Game Will Tell a Lot About Shafer as HC

[Crusty]

A little of both.

I know, that's a cop out.

Actually, I think that is the correct appraisal.

 

[TheCusian]

We can't complete a forward pass that is meaningful, we will not beat anybody by 3 Tds , we can win but not by 21 pts vs who we have left.

Yeah - except when we did complete meaningful forward passes in the last game and vs NC State and Tulane. Hunt is taking a beating and rightly so - but he's done some nice things especially early on. It's when we have to pass to come back, he gets really bad.

The threat of the run is what gives him a bit of space to throw or run himself.

And we should have beaten NC State by 3-4 touchdowns.

Pitt is falling apart, BC looks good but hasn't beaten anyone good. We have a shot.

 

[007]

Pfffft. This year could go well in the end. But tired of keep hearing that coaches need 2-3 years for their own players blah, blah, blah. Did Marrone build this program or not? It's almost becoming obvious he had no replacement at QB, WR or OL. If this program had been put back on a solid foundation, we wouldn't be worried about going backwards and waiting again. If this thing ends poorly, then either Shafer and staff was a mistake or Marrone didn't recruit well.

However, I still think we get to 6-6.

I'm not so sure that Marrone would have done better than 6-6 with this team. That would be a "great" season for SS, so I hope you are right.

As for your question of whether Marrone built this program or not, this will not be measured as much by what SS and staff will do with the rest of the season. What Marrone did do, with absolute certainty in my mind anyway, is take a program that was at or near the bottom of every statistical category that mattered for the last 2 years before his arrival - a BCS program that sunk to historically low depths rarely seen before from one of the big 6 conferences - and over the course of 4 years, go on to and win 2 bowl games, and a share of the BE conference title.

Some people here seem to see pointing out those facts as the deification of Marrone legacy. I see it as the stuff that landed Marrone a gig as a HC in the NFL. Schiano notwithstanding, they just don't give those opportunities away like candy in the NFL.

 

[GoSU96]

I bet financially we are still bottom 5 in the big 5 conferences easily
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2011 the school reported $73M in Total Revenue from Athletics. That's 36th in all D-1, and that's before the $14M bump that SU, Pitt, and Louisville will all get from joining the ACC.

Right now only six schools, L'ville, SU, Duke, UNC, UK and Zona are the only teams making more than $20M in hoops and football. SU is poised to be the only school to make $3oM in hoops and football, $2M in one minor sport and $1M in another in all of D-1. SU is not killing it in football revenues, but it does well across many.

Finances don't appear to be all that bad.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not so sure that Marrone would have done better than 6-6 with this team. That would be a "great" season for SS, so I hope you are right.

Then you're on the side that says we didn't recruit as well as some thought.


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[Doctor44]

I disagree - this may be a 7-5 or 8-4 team with marrone, but it's not so much about marrone. I think with hackett we have an organized offense and with shaf we have a credible D. We beat penn state, and are competitive against NW and GT.

we're 4-3 and at least pull out 2 wins to close the season. I think marrone circles the BC game and we smack them to close the season. I'm plus /minus on the WF game, we surprise maryland and take them out. Fight hard and are beat at FSU, like we lost at PSU Marrone's first year 28-7 and we beat PITT leading into a big close against BC.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Pfffft. This year could go well in the end. But tired of keep hearing that coaches need 2-3 years for their own players blah, blah, blah. Did Marrone build this program or not? It's almost becoming obvious he had no replacement at QB, WR or OL. If this program had been put back on a solid foundation, we wouldn't be worried about going backwards and waiting again. If this thing ends poorly, then either Shafer and staff was a mistake or Marrone didn't recruit well.

However, I still think we get to 6-6.

I don't think Doug recruited great by any means but he had some nice pieces coming in and I think he probably would have started Allen this year or the other frosh and ran his power running game and also would have gotten more out of the receivers, still used the TE and the D would have been fine if people think that GMC equals Hack/ Marrone then that is crazy. There was going to be a considerable drop off but GMC needs time to recruit, he's a recruiter and that is what he does. I think Doug recruited well enough for us to be 6-6 maybe 8-4 this year if he was still here and again that is a staff that has shown some consistency and stayed together

That said, I believe Shafer needs 3 years to get the systems, players, etc his coaches want, I just do. So yes 5-7 isn't a dumpster fire, not great either. That said, we all know Marrone rebuilt the program, not 100% but he did a nice job of laying a solid foundation and yeah it could still go either way but Marrone wasn't done either. Why wasn't he done? He needed a few more years and a lot more money which will never come. That is my point people talk of all the ACC money but I guarantee you are donor base, budget, etc for our program is bottom five for all big 5 BCS schools, tough to truly compete with a budget like that.

I have no idea how good Shafer can or will be but he is certainly struggling first 7 games but again he's a first time HC in a new conference, with NO QB. Not Shafer's fault there that Marrone didn't leave a qb, but like I said, I would bet that Allen would be starting this year if marrone was still here, either he or maybe maybe Loeb but Marrone would be running Smith, Gulley, and the kid from GA a lot more

 

[IthacaBarrel]

2011 the school reported $73M in Total Revenue from Athletics. That's 36th in all D-1, and that's before the $14M bump that SU, Pitt, and Louisville will all get from joining the ACC.

Right now only six schools, L'ville, SU, Duke, UNC, UK and Zona are the only teams making more than $20M in hoops and football. SU is poised to be the only school to make $3oM in hoops and football, $2M in one minor sport and $1M in another in all of D-1. SU is not killing it in football revenues, but it does well across many.

Finances don't appear to be all that bad.

Donor base for football? Money for facilities upgrades just for football. I want to know what is being put back into the program for facilities, upgrades, everything. Making money is great, lots of people making money but not reinvesting. Like I said, I bet we are near the bottom there.

 

[CuseOnly]

2011 the school reported $73M in Total Revenue from Athletics. That's 36th in all D-1, and that's before the $14M bump that SU, Pitt, and Louisville will all get from joining the ACC.

Right now only six schools, L'ville, SU, Duke, UNC, UK and Zona are the only teams making more than $20M in hoops and football. SU is poised to be the only school to make $3oM in hoops and football, $2M in one minor sport and $1M in another in all of D-1. SU is not killing it in football revenues, but it does well across many.

Finances don't appear to be all that bad.

I think that Go is pretty close here, I remember reading that overall athletic budget being somewhere around $85 to 90 million putting us in the top 5 in the ACC when you include Louisville next year.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think that Go is pretty close here, I remember reading that overall athletic budget being somewhere around $85 to 90 million putting us in the top 5 in the ACC when you include Louisville next year.

Yes, from an overall athletic department view point, basketball drives the bus. I want to know how much is spent on football? and what the football only donor base is every year, I bet it is extremely low. I don't care about the other sports from a financial perspective

 

[CuseOnly]

Yes, from an overall athletic department view point, basketball drives the bus. I want to know how much is spent on football? and what the football only donor base is every year, I bet it is extremely low. I don't care about the other sports from a financial perspective

The only 2 sports that matter from a revenue perspective are Basketball and Football. They are the only ones that generate profitable revenue. ALL of the rest are a drain, including lacrosse which is probably the biggest revenue loser.

You need to care because the other sports and scholarships for them are where most of the football and basketball $$ go to support. And before the AD gets dime 1 for a budget, I think it was somewhere around 20% of the athletic revenue goes to the schools general fund.

You will never know how much is spent on each individual sport st SU as it is a private institution and doesn't have to disclose.

 

[anomander]

A little of both.

I know, that's a cop out.

I disagree about Marrone not recruiting well. He was here for 4 years, the first 2 seasons recruiting it was basically trying to convince kids come here on blind faith. There was absolutely nothing done on the field that would make a kid want to come here and our facilities at that time were still bottom of any big 5 school. He still brought in some good under the radar talent.

His 2011 and 2012 class IMO will be the classes that save this program. Our roster is loaded of those kids who have already contributed significantly, and have a real good chance to be very good in the 2015 season. Were judging Marrone's recruiting too early. There is enough talent on this roster for 7 wins I have no doubt , but if coached properly the next 2 seasons we were set up for


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[orangenirvana]

I dont know that we do have talent. I cant think of too many guys who be definitive starters on other teams in the ACC maybe a handful - Macky, broyld may get some snaps, bromley would be in rotation, spruill depending on the team.

Ugh. Here we go...

"The cupboard was bare!!!"

 

[rrlbees]

I disagree about Marrone not recruiting well. He was here for 4 years, the first 2 seasons recruiting it was basically trying to convince kids come here on blind faith. There was absolutely nothing done on the field that would make a kid want to come here and our facilities at that time were still bottom of any big 5 school. He still brought in some good under the radar talent.

His 2011 and 2012 class IMO will be the classes that save this program. Our roster is loaded of those kids who have already contributed significantly, and have a real good chance to be very good in the 2015 season. Were judging Marrone's recruiting too early. There is enough talent on this roster for 7 wins I have no doubt , but if coached properly the next 2 seasons we were set up for


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Maybe on the defensive side, not so much on offense. QB, WR, OL.


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[TheCusian]

Maybe on the defensive side, not so much on offense. QB, WR, OL.


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I think it's less about talent, and more about how they were planning on using the talent. Marrone and Hackett didn't run a system dependent on speed and athleticism, but on superior scheme and intelligence. That's why Nassib, Lemon, etc. ate up the teams at the later half of last year.

McDonald is wanting to run a more "give the fast guys the ball in space" kind of offense. We just don't have enough of those guys.

I'll agree on QB however. I think they thought Z.Allen would be the next guy.

 

[anomander]

Maybe on the defensive side, not so much on offense. QB, WR, OL.


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The WR is a legit concern, but we are also asking them to perform in a totally different scheme that is the exact opposite of their skill set they were recruited for.

While qb is now a concern I believe they felt they had their qb of the future, he just chose to go somewhere else when they did.

OL isn't that bad. We start 3 sophomores a senior and junior and have 2 red shirt freshman waiting in the wings who will be 3 year starters.

There was a plan, and 2015 was the year we were getting to be set to be a player...and we still can


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[orangenirvana]

Maybe on the defensive side, not so much on offense. QB, WR, OL.

We'll never know how those players would have performed under Hackett/Marrone. My guess is much better than they are now.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I disagree about Marrone not recruiting well. He was here for 4 years, the first 2 seasons recruiting it was basically trying to convince kids come here on blind faith. There was absolutely nothing done on the field that would make a kid want to come here and our facilities at that time were still bottom of any big 5 school. He still brought in some good under the radar talent.

His 2011 and 2012 class IMO will be the classes that save this program. Our roster is loaded of those kids who have already contributed significantly, and have a real good chance to be very good in the 2015 season. Were judging Marrone's recruiting too early. There is enough talent on this roster for 7 wins I have no doubt , but if coached properly the next 2 seasons we were set up for


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There is zero WR talent on this roster right now and thats not an overstatement. West as a #1 has been a disaster, Flemming cant make it two games without a major injury and Kobena/Clark wouldnt have mediocore numbers if you combined there stats this year. Marrone did recruit talent but man he left us bare at WR, this might be the worst WR unit in the last 20 years. This unit makes me yearn for Rice Moss and Lendel Bembo

 

[007]

Then you're on the side that says we didn't recruit as well as some thought.

No, I am not. That line of "logic" would only make sense if you assume that SS and staff could effectively produce the same results that Marrone would have if he still were here. Even more than that, the debate as the whether Marrone recruited as well as some did, or did not think is irrelevant to what he actually accomplished when he was here as measured by productivity, bowl appearances, development of talent available, and overall competitiveness of the program..

 

[rrlbees]

No, I am not. That line of "logic" would only make sense if you assume that SS and staff could effectively produce the same results that Marrone would have if he still were here. Even more than that, the debate as the whether Marrone recruited as well as some did, or did not think is irrelevant to what he actually accomplished when he was here as measured by productivity, bowl appearances, development of talent available, and overall competitiveness of the program..

You can't play both sides. If this season craters, it's either coaching, talent or both.


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[GoSU96]

Yes, from an overall athletic department view point, basketball drives the bus. I want to know how much is spent on football? and what the football only donor base is every year, I bet it is extremely low. I don't care about the other sports from a financial perspective

For 2011 SU reported spending $21,731,165, which was between FSU and Iowa, and 24th in the country.

What's important about the fact that SU has a wider revenue base than other schools is that for most schools football carries the whole athletics department.

I don't know where capital spending fits in here.

 

[anomander]

There is zero WR talent on this roster right now and thats not an overstatement. West as a #1 has been a disaster, Flemming cant make it two games without a major injury and Kobena/Clark wouldnt have mediocore numbers if you combined there stats this year. Marrone did recruit talent but man he left us bare at WR, this might be the worst WR unit in the last 20 years. This unit makes me yearn for Rice Moss and Lendel Bembo

The amazing thing was he wasn't even going to recruit a WR last semester. Makes me wonder what's really going on with Funderburke, and have always felt it's not ability, but other reasons keeping him off the field. You also have Foster leaving who many felt was going to produce for us. So now you have Funderburke , West, Foster, a healty Flemming, and let's not forget the trajectory Wales was on before we abandoned the TE position as a pass catcher. In McDonalds get playmakers the ball in space is the least any of those WRs bring. I do think they would be more productive in the offense they were recruited for. Wales and West have both proven that's, it's not like they all a sudden got worse


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[TBCuse11]

The amazing thing was he wasn't even going to recruit a WR last semester. Makes me wonder what's really going on with Funderburke, and have always felt it's not ability, but other reasons keeping him off the field. You also have Foster leaving who many felt was going to produce for us. So now you have Funderburke , West, Foster, a healty Flemming, and let's not forget the trajectory Wales was on before we abandoned the TE position as a pass catcher. In McDonalds get playmakers the ball in space is the least any of those WRs bring. I do think they would be more productive in the offense they were recruited for. Wales and West have both proven that's, it's not like they all a sudden got worse


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Broyld and Estime are our two best WR, which is a scary thought.

 

[crzdsufan]

Won't bad mouth any particular players but we do need to get better at wide out. Also can the wide out go up and make a defensive play on what is obviously going to be an interception. Even a penalty by our wide out is better than giving up an interception.
I won't get in the Marrone debate of talent verses no talent but this recruiting class is a scary proposition to me. In the last week/s we have lost two recruits. I am assuming it is because of the blow out losses in part. I love HCSS but feel this game against Wake Forest is a must. NOT to prove his coaching skills! I fear another loss, especially a blow out will result in other commits de-committing and this could spell the eventual demise of HCSS.
We need a good recruiting year and with it will come a DESERVED chance for HCSS to prove his worth. It will give him a chance to mature as a head coach. We gave Robinson four years, can you seriously say HCSS doesn't deserve at least three years to show his true colors. Remember this is an entire new coaching staff, in new positions for most. Give them a chance to learn and I really believe they will shine in years to come; the only doubt I have is having the tools to do it with. Need this game for that reason alone if nothing else. Go CUSE!

 

[007]

You can't play both sides. If this season craters, it's either coaching, talent or both.


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Wouldn't that be 3 sides? For the record, I have not played a side yet because it is too early to tell whether this is a talent, coaching or combination thereof issue.

My point in this debate IS that Marrone most definitely built the program light years ahead from where he found it. This is true regardless of what happens this season, regardless of what you happen to think about the recruiting, and regardless of what anybody thinks about SS ability as a HC.