What has Benny done to deserve...

[HOFCeluck]

Jimmy in the lane last night attempting to rebound on the defensive boards was hard to watch.

The reason Benny should play is that no one in front of him (Swider, Boeheim) despite being provided with every opportunity has shown that he should be cemented on the bench. He should play by default at this point.

Right. FFS we're 9-11. At the very least try to play for the future instead of force feeding Jimmy, Buddy, and Joe.

 

[Newhouser]

Completely agree that we are not good. The question is how much would Benny help? I haven't seen anything from him that shows we would be much better if he played more, but again it is a conversation to be had.

I think in some/a lot of cases the question could be turned to say "how could putting Benny in hurt?". Benny has not demonstrated a lot of skills but watching Cole try another turn around jumper or Jimmy do a mad rush hook or not defend anyone .... leads me to ask anyway - how is it going to kill us to give Benny some burn, especially now that the Big Dance is lost.

 

[TrickySU]

...and I want to know what Jimmy has done to deserve playing 35 mins a game.
Once you answer that question, you'll find your answer

Would Benny have Jimmy's numbers if he played 35 minutes a game? If your answer is yes, we will never agree. If your answer is no, then you have your answer.

Can there be something in between? Sure.

Jimmy has produced in the minutes he gets. Benny just hasn't shown me it yet.

Jimmy's defense is awful. Benny's isn't so much better that his lack of offense means he doesn't play.

 

[djcon57]

Jimmy has produced in the minutes he gets.

No. He hasn't. Stop gaslighting

 

[CardiacCuse]

His last name is Williams...doesnt start with B and end in m

benny boeheim has a nice ring to it...

he should consider a name change ...no short cuts in life but thatd be the fastest way to more playing time

 

[HOFCeluck]

Thank god we played him 36 minutes last night amirite.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Because we have 3 forwards and he’s one of them.

 

[TrickySU]

This has too much of a strawman flavor here. If we were 13-7 or better with clearly no benefit in developmental minutes given our post season aspirations this would be a non starter.

You can't single it out this way to try and make your point. That isn't what anyone is arguing. The argument is that things don't look great with him or without him. Its about investing and evaluating in the future. Plain and simple.

In fairness he has had a few games where he really looked to be turning it around and an asset. Then he disappeared. Doesn't change that the real issue is about the future more than him having proven anything to date.

And that is fair. At his point, he should play more. The question was do we have a better chance to win this year with him or without him. We beat the best team in the ACC on the road with Benny playing 2 minutes. Before these last two games, we lost four conference games by a combined 14 points. My guess is Jim weighed winning those games vs. developing for the future and hasn't seen enough in Benny to warrant him playing a lot.

Now that there is no shot to make the tournament based on record, Benny should play more. And he probably will.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I've always thought Joe's ideal role is as a shooter coming off the bench. That is besides the point. Jimmy averages 14 points and 6 rebounds while shooting 47% from the field and 38% from three. That's all besides the point.

I just want to know what people have seen from Benny that tells you he should play more. You may not like the other guys, but I just want to know what Benny has shown to say he's a better option.

athleticism

I agree that he hasnt shown enough to really be a viable option

BUT

I guess the only way to get to NCAAT at this point is winning the ACCT

its gonna take more than reshufling the deck chairs on the Titanic aka playing better with the current rotation

Perhaps - perhaps! - Benny could figure it out if he played a ton the rest of the way and be a force in the ACCT. perhaps he is lost and it could click before the end of the season with a ton of PT

thats a long shot so im not saying its the move...

but thats the way of looking at it that gets him playing time

he does not increase winning chances for the team over the other forwards at the moment in my opinion though...which is why he isnt playing

as bad as some of the other forwards are its just true

 

[TrickySU]

No. He hasn't. Stop gaslighting

So what would his numbers need to be on offense for him to produce in your opinion?

 

[TrickySU]

athleticism

I agree that he hasnt shown enough to really be a viable option

BUT

I guess the only way to get to NCAAT at this point is winning the ACCT

its gonna take more than reshufling the deck chairs on the Titanic aka playing better with the current rotation

Perhaps - perhaps! - Benny could figure it out if he played a ton the rest of the way and be a force in the ACCT. perhaps he is lost and it could click before the end of the season with a ton of PT

thats a long shot so im not saying its the move...

but thats the way of looking at it that gets him playing time

he does not increase winning chances for the team over the other forwards at the moment in my opinion though...which is why he isnt playing

as bad as some of the other forwards are its just true

Sure. Absolutely. I think people on here (not you) are thinking I'm saying Benny hasn't shown anything so he shouldn't play. He should play now that the tournament is out of question. My point was the clamoring for him to play as if we would win more games with him is wrong. He should play, as others have pointed out, for development and development only. Not because he is the best option.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Completely agree that we are not good. The question is how much would Benny help? I haven't seen anything from him that shows we would be much better if he played more, but again it is a conversation to be had.

We were getting killed on the O boards by a kid who was more athletic than either of our starting forwards. Benny would have helped there.

And I'm sorry, but if you think JBA's 'activity' on defense is actually akin to playing defense, I think we are looking at very different things. JBA seems like a nice kid, but seems like a kid who won't ever play hoops again after college. Seems like he'd be a decent soccer player, but he grew too much and was forced to play hoops by someone...

 

[djcon57]

So what would his numbers need to be on offense for him to produce in your opinion?

*sigh*
it's not about offense.

What he does on the floor in totality does not result in winning the game.
Winning the game is the production I'm looking for.
We're 9 and 11.

I...I just don't know what else to say.

 

[Alsacs]

Would Benny have Jimmy's numbers if he played 35 minutes a game? If your answer is yes, we will never agree. If your answer is no, then you have your answer.

Can there be something in between? Sure.

Jimmy has produced in the minutes he gets. Benny just hasn't shown me it yet.

Jimmy's defense is awful. Benny's isn't so much better that his lack of offense means he doesn't play.

This post is just a strawman. Jimmy had several turnovers in the game yesterday that get Benny sent to the bench immediately.

If the coach thinks Ajak is better defender than Williams when the team clearly needed offense yesterday that is just stupid.

That doesn’t even bring up JB embarrassed Benny when he put him in a spot that he did.
That was pathetic.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Right. FFS we're 9-11. At the very least try to play for the future instead of force feeding Jimmy, Buddy, and Joe.

It's tiresome that this needs to be explained everyday. Have fun guys

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Completely agree that we are not good. The question is how much would Benny help? I haven't seen anything from him that shows we would be much better if he played more, but again it is a conversation to be had.

Why does it have to be MUCH BETTER? Why can't we develop players in general without expecting them to be MUCH BETTER than the starters?

 

[TrickySU]

My answer is if Jimmy never came to Syracuse and Benny was given 35 minutes a night along with all his ISO chances on offense we would be a better team overall. The only thing I think Jimmy might do better than Benny would be shooing the 3. Looking at Benny I don't know if I see a 38% shooter from distance. Other than that there is no doubt in my mind that Benny would be able to produce at minimum the same numbers as Jimmy has done...

If Jimmy's last name wasn't Boeheim he wouldn't be on the team and if he was on the team he wouldn't be playing at all. If Benny's name was Benny Boeheim instead of Benny Williams he would be playing 35 minutes a night.

I appreciate the answer. I disagree because the ISO chances that Benny has gotten haven't ended well. Mostly fade aways or jump shots. But more playing time and confidence could change that.

In my opinion, the guy averaging 14 points and 6 rebounds isn't the problem. It's more than just one guy, and he is definitely part of the problem on defense! I suppose the question is, if Benny got 10 more minutes a game (5 from Cole and 5 from Jimmy) would his production cover for what those guys would give you in those 10 minutes. It might! And I actually called for that earlier. It's just been disappointing to watch Benny in the minutes he's gotten.

But again, at this point he should play to get some experience in games now that it is a lost season.

 

[TrickySU]

Why does it have to be MUCH BETTER? Why can't we develop players in general without expecting them to be MUCH BETTER than the starters?

I'm not sure we would even be better. But the answer is because our margin of error has been so little. Four ACC games against teams in the top 7 teams in the league lost by a combined 14 points.

I completely agree we should develop players. The game situations didn't lend to that. Now with the last few results. Throw that out the window and develop, develop, develop. So Benny should play more.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

This post is just a strawman. Jimmy had several turnovers in the game yesterday that get Benny sent to the bench immediately.

If the coach thinks Ajak is better defender than Williams when the team clearly needed offense yesterday that is just stupid.

That doesn’t even bring up JB embarrassed Benny when he put him in a spot that he did.
That was pathetic.

I think people would be less upset if JAB played Frank at the four instead of JBA. I understand JAB was trying something with JBA, but it clearly didn't work and then he went back to it again.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I appreciate the answer. I disagree because the ISO chances that Benny has gotten haven't ended well. Mostly fade aways or jump shots. But more playing time and confidence could change that.

In my opinion, the guy averaging 14 points and 6 rebounds isn't the problem. It's more than just one guy, and he is definitely part of the problem on defense! I suppose the question is, if Benny got 10 more minutes a game (5 from Cole and 5 from Jimmy) would his production cover for what those guys would give you in those 10 minutes. It might! And I actually called for that earlier. It's just been disappointing to watch Benny in the minutes he's gotten.

But again, at this point he should play to get some experience in games now that it is a lost season.

You completely discount two things. Defense, and long term recruiting. Both would be helped by playing the highest (lowest number) ranked recruit you've brought in for a while now. I was told this was going to be the best shooting team ever thanks to Cole, Joe, and Buddy. That ain't working, so why do we keep going that route as well? If the offense was supposed to hum without Benny's contributions being included in the math in the first place, why are you holding him out because of his offense?

And if we keep running off our best recruits per the rankings, we stop getting recruits in the future with similar rankings.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm not sure we would even be better. But the answer is because our margin of error has been so little. Four ACC games against teams in the top 7 teams in the league lost by a combined 14 points.

I completely agree we should develop players. The game situations didn't lend to that. Now with the last few results. Throw that out the window and develop, develop, develop. So Benny should play more.

Yeah, not seeing what you are seeing. We aren't losing because of Benny getting a few minutes every half. We are losing because JB refuses to play the kids he recruited at the position he recruited them for. Playing Jimmy at the 5 cost us at least one game.

 

[OrangeDW]

Would Benny have Jimmy's numbers if he played 35 minutes a game? If your answer is yes, we will never agree. If your answer is no, then you have your answer.

Can there be something in between? Sure.

Jimmy has produced in the minutes he gets. Benny just hasn't shown me it yet.

Jimmy's defense is awful. Benny's isn't so much better that his lack of offense means he doesn't play.

Benny’s defense is way better.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think people would be less upset if JAB played Frank at the four instead of JBA. I understand JAB was trying something with JBA, but it clearly didn't work and then he went back to it again.

Why does Frank at the 4 ever come up here? I get he's athletic, and might actually be able to play that position defensively, but I've never even seen him take a shot other than a dunk, let alone make one. I know Benny's shot has a long way to go, but he has at least made a couple jumpers.

Would be interesting to see though, I guess.

 

[AlaskaSU]

...more playing time? I like Benny. I think he will grow to be a very good player. But if you had no idea he was a five-star recruit and you evaluated based on what he has shown this year, what about his game says he DESERVES to play more?

Obviously his athleticism stands out, but he looks lost many times on offense. His most common shot is a fade away jumper, and his movement needs a lot of work. Benny's lack of confidence shows. I'd love for him to seal on the mid post and call for the ball. And when he gets it, to attack the rim. Way too many times he is tentative and does not attack the rim! That's where he would be most effective. Besides that, he should be effective attacking the glass, but only five offensive rebounds all year doesn't do it.

Defensively, that athleticism helps in the biggest way as a weakside defender. He had a great block against Clemson or Pittsburgh coming across from the opposite side to protect the rim. He needs to be better positioned overall though.

Honestly, I think it's clear why John Bol Ajak has played over Benny. Ajak has been more active and better positioned on defense. And since Benny hasn't added anything offensively, you don't lose anything on that end with Ajak in over Benny. Not saying I agree with it, but Jim has played guys who have shown him more over the guy that has the bigger potential.

Benny can be a great player. I think if he sticks around, he will have that big jump from freshman to sophomore year that many of our players throughout the years have had.

But besides being a five-star recruit, I just haven't seen anything in games that screams "this guy deserves to play more."

From a development and CONFIDENCE standpoint, I would like to see him get more playing time, and now with this season essentially lost except for a miracle conference tournament run, maybe he will get more time. But I just want to see some improvement in these categories for him to DESERVE that playing time. He just needs more work and more time to develop, and that development will come outside of games, not by getting increased playing time.

He was not a concensus 5 star and his rankings dropped with more exposure. He is so far behind where he needs to be that it is a stretch to think that next year will be a break-out year. Next year is not looking good for us. Two bad years in a row and attendance will suffer. Our recruiting hole could grow deeper.

 

[Orangezoo]

We were getting killed on the O boards by a kid who was more athletic than either of our starting forwards. Benny would have helped there.

And I'm sorry, but if you think JBA's 'activity' on defense is actually akin to playing defense, I think we are looking at very different things. JBA seems like a nice kid, but seems like a kid who won't ever play hoops again after college. Seems like he'd be a decent soccer player, but he grew too much and was forced to play hoops by someone...

This is gonna sound bad and I'm sure JBA would dominate in a average Joe scrimmage but with him I can't help but think of when you go to run a pickup game and you are a man short so you convince the dude who is just hanging out to join. He comes in and runs around pretending like he knows what to do. He usually has some clue on defense but mostly wanders and then fouls late anytime he tries.