What is the process - or who is our NIL GM? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

What is the process - or who is our NIL GM?

I've asked that question on the board before, never have gotten a direct response because obviously, very few know.

As for some who are saying Jesse was asking an amount that far exceeded his worth... how is that so? If some schools are willing to pay that amount, it seems to me that we were not willing to pay market value. Isn't this like real estate? Sellers dictate what is a fair market price. Just because it's too much to pay for us doesn't mean it's unreasonable.

Paying market value isn’t the same as paying a reasonable amount. If only one school is willing to pay Jesse $800k for example and it’s the only school willing to do that. That doesn’t make $800k market value. Overpaying for a player isn’t the same as paying market value, the value part is lost when you overpay for a player. And since theoretically market value shifts all the time, that doesn’t mean you should pay “market value” at any time for any product because that’s what market value is at that particular point.
 
I've asked that question on the board before, never have gotten a direct response because obviously, very few know.

As for some who are saying Jesse was asking an amount that far exceeded his worth... how is that so? If some schools are willing to pay that amount, it seems to me that we were not willing to pay market value. Isn't this like real estate? Sellers dictate what is a fair market price. Just because it's too much to pay for us doesn't mean it's unreasonable.

This is the new reality. Demand drives the market price.

Some are caught up with the right or wrong of it... I get it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's fluid and happening live right now.

I don't know how the school/program interacts with NIL groups or individuals to set target player priorities, but like any scarce resource, the NIL groups/individuals have to budget their top-line offers based on priority for a specific player and what they actually have in the kitty to spread around for other targets as well.

It's hard to know if we were completely blown out of the water by competing offers for Jesse or if a big chunk has been allocated to Dickinson or another target that put Jesse lower on the list?? One man's grass can be another man's weed...

With Weitsman gone, we'll know over time if our various NIL coiffures have what we need to be competitive or if we are skint and can't compete to land multiple tier 1 players in a window.

I hope that is not the case but I fear we need another heavily-monetized whale to get us more competitive. Others have mentioned there are 2 other "whale-types" recently brought in for NIL, but those are just rumors and we need to start seeing evidence of their contributions bearing fruit. Still early days for them if true, so I am holding out some hope that it's true and they will help us land multiple tier 1 transfers and recruits.
 
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Mark Wheeler from Compliance is the point person for NIL issues at Syracuse and is very helpful navigating the waters. He, nor anyone from the University can be directly involved with brokering deals. This includes any coaches giving explicit instruction that we need to find $xxxx for player Y, though I am sure this information has informal channels to get out.
Weitsman does not contribute through the 315Foundation to my knowledge. Certainly not in his offers to recruits. The 315 Foundation collects donations earmarked to specific teams and funds initiatives for players to provide a service to a 501c charity. I believe they can direct this solicitation to individual players or blanket to teams.
Commercial deals or those not supporting a charity are NOT run through the two main collectives. Any business, or individual, can request access to a portal and once approved, can offer transactions to individual players. That is the approach we use with the SyraCRUZ tailgate and with our guest athletes. At onetime I was told by a player that SU wanted all commercial transactions to go through the portal. That service aggregates annual earnings into a single 1099 for each athlete and provides relevant compliance reporting to the University.
I am sure there are other cases where the formal process is skirted but that is obviously not preferred.
Also, thank you for the effort that you have obviously have put into this entire process.
 
If only one school is willing to pay Jesse $800k for example and it’s the only school willing to do that. That doesn’t make $800k market value.
Sure it does. That's the literal definition of market value.

Definition of market value: "the amount for which something can be sold on a given market"

That doesn't mean that the market value can't correct itself in the future, but for now (today), that is market value.
 
Sure it does. That's the literal definition of market value.

Definition of market value: "the amount for which something can be sold on a given market"

That doesn't mean that the market value can't correct itself in the future, but for now (today), that is market value.

Of course and that’s why people overpay for a stock, overpay for property, etc. So the idea of market value in NIL is somewhat irrelevant. It creates the idea we’re not willing to pay what someone is worth. What Jesse might get paid at WV is not necessarily what he’s worth and doesn’t mean we should chase market value terminology for every player.
 
I thought Jesse's NIL was complicated because he is an international student?
 
Sure does seem like we need a GM for both football and basketball. When your entire roster can be free agents every year, somebody has to keep this all together and make the tough decisions.
 
Everyone keeps putting it on the university, chancellor, AD, coaches but the school cannot be directly involved in giving NIL to players. That would be pay to play.
Now I know it is clearly happening at other places. But as someone already stated that is an ncaa violation. We all know the ncaa is inept but they still have enforcement power. With the new rules the burden shifts to the schools. We also know the ncaa has no problem going after su with disproportionate punishment compared to other schools.
A lot of people are upset about AW stepping away but there must be a reason the university had concerns. May not be completely valid but it’s the university that gets punished not AW.
Dealing with NIL right now is difficult to say the least if you do not want to risk a potential violation from a governing body that is inconsistent in their enforcement. It’s going to be a bumpy ride for a while.
In the end I’m am an su fan for life. Yes I would like them to win every game but I will be supporting them every game win or loose.
The first time the NCAA steps in and a player decides to file a court case the NCAA is dead man walking.
The Supreme Court has pretty much told the NCAA they can't stop players from being paid.
And if it gets in court there would be damages which could bankrupt the NCAA.
 
But they can be directly involved in making sure players don't get NIL by running off the sugardaddy NIL whale...

You can't have it both ways, I am afraid. They have culpability in assuring our players do NOT get NIL right now.

My gut says we hunker down and support Red as best we can. He will be operating with hand tied behind his back and we'll likely have to settle for tier-2 players and expect to lose any player that develops into a good player to the portal.

...That is until such a time that we have a NIL strategy that is monetized and competitive with the universities and colleges that have better NIL resources (and let's be honest, that may never happen.)
What I see (lacking any enforceable NCAA rules)--

We may be looking at a situation where we bring good players in, develop them for a season or two, then watch them head to the portal to auction themselves off to the highest bidder--like what happened in the football program with Duce Chestnut (LSU) and Ja'had Carter (OSU). We can't compete with those huge state-financed institutions.
 
Oof, well, regarding the OP, this is going to be a little awkward, but I think it's fair that you all know.

It's me.
 
Sure it does. That's the literal definition of market value.

Definition of market value: "the amount for which something can be sold on a given market"

That doesn't mean that the market value can't correct itself in the future, but for now (today), that is market value.
There is market value and fair market value. If market value is greater than fair market value get the heck out?
 
The first time the NCAA steps in and a player decides to file a court case the NCAA is dead man walking.
The Supreme Court has pretty much told the NCAA they can't stop players from being paid.
And if it gets in court there would be damages which could bankrupt the NCAA.
It’s not the player it is the team and university. The ncaa has the power to rule players ineligible, strip wins, limit scholarships etc. If the ncaa believes rules are violated it’s the university that suffers not the players. One of the reasons a school may say thanks but no thanks to certain nil deals is if they feel it violates compliance.
 
What I see (lacking any enforceable NCAA rules)--

We may be looking at a situation where we bring good players in, develop them for a season or two, then watch them head to the portal to auction themselves off to the highest bidder--like what happened in the football program with Duce Chestnut (LSU) and Ja'had Carter (OSU). We can't compete with those huge state-financed institutions.

Steve Linton To T-Tech as well...

Some of it is inevitable.

I think we're in for very top heavy spread of talent much like the English Premier League, where the perennial big-money teams (Man City, Liverpool, Man United, Tottenham, Arsenal) consistently get the most tier-1 players and pay top-dollar (or pound) for them... and the second tier of clubs get a smattering of good players here and there and are competitive, but any of them occasionally challenging for the top 5 is the exception and certainly not the rule. Heck, you could argue that Leicester winning the league a few years ago was a comet-level event... would have been like if FAU won the natty this year...

Moreover, I think we all have to come to grips with the fact that our new life under NIL, given our private status and university size, means we will be (at best) a 2nd tier program for attracting talent.

It doesn't mean we can't be good and competitive, but the hope of ever recapturing the top-tier program status we had at the height of the Big East is never going to happen again.

It saddens me to say that, but I am also a realist.
 

What is the process - or who is our NIL GM?​



587daf9a8fb7cfcc76af5c3374557a3a--old-tv-shows-comedy.jpg


"you know what we call early entries and portal jumping ???
we call that OPPORTALTUNITY !!!!! "
 
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Villanova hired former Quinnipiac coach Baker Dunleavy as its general manager, a new position focused on name, image and likeness deals, the transfer portal, marketing, and fundraising for the men's and women's basketball programs.

So who has these responsibilities for Syracuse? Maybe we need to create a position too.
 
I don’t quite understand the oft-repeated notion that Player X “isn’t worth what he’s demanding/getting.”

This is a new frontier, of college hoops. In pro baseball, there’s a common expression: GFIN, which means you believe your team is within a window where you can compete for the world series, and your roster and contract decisions are based on maximizing that temporal opportunity. So, you might trade prospects for veterans who might only have a year or two left in them, or you might overpay for a superstar’s contract.

In college hoops, every year now is GFIN mode, because either you can only be reasonably certain of having your star player for that one year, or because it might only take a talent infusion of one or two players to make a significant impact to your existing roster. So, what is one productive center worth to a team like WVA? As much as they have to spend, perhaps. To suggest he’s not worth as much to us kinda implies we have a more affordable alternative within reach who is still good enough to contribute to a (top) quality team.

If you can get $2 million in NIL for a Jesse or a Hunter, is it worth it to spend that if you believe it makes you a top 20 team? If you’re not getting elite talent at that position from recruiting, maybe. If you haven’t been in the tournament for a long time, maybe. $2 million is pin money to a billionaire booster. If you’re a binnisman in West Va or Syracuse, how else are you going to be a celebrity? Hitching on to a hoops program is a solid option. What’s that worth to a billionaire? These guys get to be legal players—movers and shakers—in an environment they love. That has a value that doesn’t reconcile with the actual marketing power of the athletes they are buying.
 
After reading so many pages in various NIL threads, I am still completely confused as to how the process work (or supposed to work).

I think I understand NCAA's original intent. A student athlete selects a school to attend or transfer to, then upon arriving on campus, he can earn money based on his NIL like appearing at tailgates, signing autographs, do commercials for local merchants, sell jerseys with his/her name on it etc etc etc...it is not supposed to be an inducement to enroll in that particular school.

But the reality is, it has become the primary consideration in deciding where to enroll or transfer, NIL is in fact play for pay, while having to appear not to be the case, and tampering is everywhere.

The NCAA has various rules in place on how NIL is "supposed" to operate, such as the coach is not even supposed to tell the NIL operators which recruits or transfers are being prioritized, it is supposed to be completely hands off.

Then you can have multiple NIL entities operating in parallel, in concert with each other or completely independent of each other? How does that work?

How does a collective work? Let's say someone donates $5000 to a collective, is that $5000 free for that collective to use on whoever they want on whatever sports they want? That you may want that money to be spent on MBB but they may end up offering it to a synchronized swimming? Or each sport has it's own collective?

If the athlete is supposed to earn $ from his/her name, image and likeness, then the donor should also benefit from his/her NIL right? How does a donor benefit from a particular player's NIL? Once you donate to it it just get blended into a pool of money, like a crowd fund, so how does the collective manage it? Does a collective track the provenance of each donation, and pair up the athlete with the donor to fulfill the NIL obligations?

Let's pretend I was Jesse, and the WV collective offers me 800K, so what do I need to do to earn that 800K? There is an agreement to be signed no? Someone has to tell me that, hey Jesse, this is the list of things you need to do:

(1) on this date, between 2-8pm, you are to appear at this car dealership to shoot a video commercial, because XYZ Kia paid 150K towards your NIL.
(2) On that date, you need to greet customers at the entrance of the Oakwood Home Depot from 6am-noon and attend a kids workshop for building a park bench because they contributed $85K towards your NIL.
etc etc etc...

Is that how that works? Because otherwise, how does a collective who collected $ from all these different sources, assign what Jesse needs to do to fulfill his NIL obligations? Because these obligations have to be NIL related.

It cannot be performance based. Someone mentioned targets and objectives for on the court, that can't be, this is completely not related to what the athlete does on the court, supposed to be anyway. In other words, a kid can sign a 2 million dollar NIL deal and shows up day 1 saying my knees are sore and I need a season ending surgery and there is nothing a school can do about it. Or a kid can just slack off and skip practices all the time and it should not impact his NIL earnings at all.

I think if you are a big time donor and runs a business who wants to gain from a player's NIL, you would want to control who to endorse and when to endorse instead of relying on a NIL collective to do whatever they want that may not be in concert with the coaches. You may want to wait till there is a potential contender with one missing piece before you throw your weight behind it, or truly look for that particular player to endorse in exchange for his/her NIL, and those may not be possible or easy by adding to a collective.

Like I said, I don't know how this all work, because play for pay but not really appearing to be play for pay, seems to be so one sided and tricky to navigate.
 
After reading so many pages in various NIL threads, I am still completely confused as to how the process work (or supposed to work).

I think I understand NCAA's original intent. A student athlete selects a school to attend or transfer to, then upon arriving on campus, he can earn money based on his NIL like appearing at tailgates, signing autographs, do commercials for local merchants, sell jerseys with his/her name on it etc etc etc...it is not supposed to be an inducement to enroll in that particular school.

But the reality is, it has become the primary consideration in deciding where to enroll or transfer, NIL is in fact play for pay, while having to appear not to be the case, and tampering is everywhere.

The NCAA has various rules in place on how NIL is "supposed" to operate, such as the coach is not even supposed to tell the NIL operators which recruits or transfers are being prioritized, it is supposed to be completely hands off.

Then you can have multiple NIL entities operating in parallel, in concert with each other or completely independent of each other? How does that work?

How does a collective work? Let's say someone donates $5000 to a collective, is that $5000 free for that collective to use on whoever they want on whatever sports they want? That you may want that money to be spent on MBB but they may end up offering it to a synchronized swimming? Or each sport has it's own collective?

If the athlete is supposed to earn $ from his/her name, image and likeness, then the donor should also benefit from his/her NIL right? How does a donor benefit from a particular player's NIL? Once you donate to it it just get blended into a pool of money, like a crowd fund, so how does the collective manage it? Does a collective track the provenance of each donation, and pair up the athlete with the donor to fulfill the NIL obligations?

Let's pretend I was Jesse, and the WV collective offers me 800K, so what do I need to do to earn that 800K? There is an agreement to be signed no? Someone has to tell me that, hey Jesse, this is the list of things you need to do:

(1) on this date, between 2-8pm, you are to appear at this car dealership to shoot a video commercial, because XYZ Kia paid 150K towards your NIL.
(2) On that date, you need to greet customers at the entrance of the Oakwood Home Depot from 6am-noon and attend a kids workshop for building a park bench because they contributed $85K towards your NIL.
etc etc etc...

Is that how that works? Because otherwise, how does a collective who collected $ from all these different sources, assign what Jesse needs to do to fulfill his NIL obligations? Because these obligations have to be NIL related.

It cannot be performance based. Someone mentioned targets and objectives for on the court, that can't be, this is completely not related to what the athlete does on the court, supposed to be anyway. In other words, a kid can sign a 2 million dollar NIL deal and shows up day 1 saying my knees are sore and I need a season ending surgery and there is nothing a school can do about it. Or a kid can just slack off and skip practices all the time and it should not impact his NIL earnings at all.

I think if you are a big time donor and runs a business who wants to gain from a player's NIL, you would want to control who to endorse and when to endorse instead of relying on a NIL collective to do whatever they want that may not be in concert with the coaches. You may want to wait till there is a potential contender with one missing piece before you throw your weight behind it, or truly look for that particular player to endorse in exchange for his/her NIL, and those may not be possible or easy by adding to a collective.

Like I said, I don't know how this all work, because play for pay but not really appearing to be play for pay, seems to be so one sided and tricky to navigate.
I think some of your questions/concerns are being bandied about at NCAA HQ right now. And they don't have the answers either.
 

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