What is the real history of SU football?

[CNY in Miami]

Want to star out saying that my wife and I are both SU alums. We moved to Miami 35 years ago but have never lost our alliance and joy (not so much this year) for SU football. We were both there from 1962 to 1967, she made it in four years me a bit longer. We had some pretty good years and a lot of great players during that period. I also grew up in CNY and remember the 1959 season.

SU' s all time winning percentage is .580, which simply means in a 12 game season we have a good chance of winning about 7 games a year. Last year Shafer hit the 7 mark, his first year, had to build a staff in a hurry, get out and recruit, and experience some on the job training. I believe he did a great job last year and brought in some excellent recruits, many like Ishmael, Philips anf Franklin are future stars.

He did not become a lousy coach in one year, this squad was decimated with injuries and had a very difficult schedule. Yes, he made mistakes, we all do, but I believe he will get the support from SU and have a long successful coaching tenure at the Cuse.

Bashing him, as many are doing on this board, and calling for him to be fired after one pretty good year and one bad one is, ridiculous .

 

[OrangeTarheel]

That's a rare voice of reason.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Next year will be a very telling year.

 

[Cuseregular]

amen bro, great post to read. Bunch of reactionaries on here especially with comparisions to Gerg (newsflash to naysayers we won 7 last year which is something Gerg never sniffed).

That said not that there aren't some legit points made by some along with some real questions/concerns I have with on the field decisions no doubt, but the extenuating circumstances this year have to be taken into account when looking at the totality of the situation. Next year its make or break for the guy as most have pointed out.

He's now on the clock which at this level of football is fine. Hoping the injury bug is less next year and he brings the program back toward 7-8 wins next year which is a realistic goal I think. Thanks for the post man, show up more often.

 

[Millhouse]

For Shafer to get to a .580 winning percentage after 5 years, he'll need to go 9-4 the next three years.

If 8-5 is as good as it gets, it'll take him twelve years of 8-5 seasons to get to .580.

Do we think he can do better than that? I have my doubts

not saying .580 should neccessarily be the standard. i'd much rather have 4 10-3 seasons with 2 3-10 seasons than six years of 8-5, even though consistently being 8-5 has a better winning %

 

[Rocco]

Good post.

Until the university steps up and 100% supports the football program, we shouldn't expect anything better than 8-5 or maybe 9-4.

Improving the program is simply not a major priority at this school and that is the bitter truth. Had it not been in large part due to the football program, Syracuse wouldn't be in this new annual windfall of TV money. We got invited to join the ACC mainly, if not exclusively, because of football.

A perfect world would include a slew of major private donations, along with the school at least doubling those efforts.

So with that, I think Shafer fits in and I remain cautiously optimistic he will turn it around. And I digress...

 

[KaiserUEO]

Want to star out saying that my wife and I are both SU alums. We moved to Miami 35 years ago but have never lost our alliance and joy (not so much this year) for SU football. We were both there from 1962 to 1967, she made it in four years me a bit longer. We had some pretty good years and a lot of great players during that period. I also grew up in CNY and remember the 1959 season.

SU' s all time winning percentage is .580, which simply means in a 12 game season we have a good chance of winning about 7 games a year. Last year Shafer hit the 7 mark, his first year, had to build a staff in a hurry, get out and recruit, and experience some on the job training. I believe he did a great job last year and brought in some excellent recruits, many like Ishmael, Philips anf Franklin are future stars.

He did not become a lousy coach in one year, this squad was decimated with injuries and had a very difficult schedule. Yes, he made mistakes, we all do, but I believe he will get the support from SU and have a long successful coaching tenure at the Cuse.

Bashing him, as many are doing on this board, and calling for him to be fired after one pretty good year and one bad one is, ridiculous .

great stuff, keep posting.

no, he did not become a lousy coach in 1 year, he was lousy last year too. the Orange were able to get some wins and mask his inefficiences, we have total exposure this year. in the modern era, changes need to be made quick or long periods of malaise ensue and quite frankly...we dont have the patience anymore. as others have pointed out, the Orange are currently in an unbelievably pathetic cycle...with the only highlights being bowl games after seasons which in the past wouldnt have earned the Orange said game.

we now have the luxury of watching at a minimum...5 NFL games and countless more college football games every week. its easy to take the temperature of the program, both players and coaches.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the Orange were able to get some wins and mask his inefficiences, we have total exposure this year.

I would say our recent history has been about skimming the line between good and bad.

2010 we white knuckled our way to wins. Not taking anything away from that team, but it made the 2011 breakdown not all that surprising.

2013 it took a last second score to get bowl eligible, and then a late score to win that bowl. Not as big a margin between last year's record and this year's when you remember how close we were last year to staying home at 5 and 7 instead of coming home bowl victors at 7 and 5.

2012 was really our only definitively "good" year recently.

 

[Millhouse]

I would say our recent history has been about skimming the line between good and bad.

2010 we white knuckled our way to wins. Not taking anything away from that team, but it made the 2011 breakdown not all that surprising.

2013 it took a last second score to get bowl eligible, and then a late score to win that bowl. Not as big a margin between last year's record and this year's when you remember how close we were last year to staying home at 5 and 7 instead of coming home bowl victors at 7 and 5.

2012 was really our only definitively "good" year recently.

yards per play is like corsi in hockey or OPS in baseball, eventually it works it self out over a big enough number of games. football is fun because it's a small sample, a weird play can change a whole season

 

[tipphill]

Want to star out saying that my wife and I are both SU alums. We moved to Miami 35 years ago but have never lost our alliance and joy (not so much this year) for SU football. We were both there from 1962 to 1967, she made it in four years me a bit longer. We had some pretty good years and a lot of great players during that period. I also grew up in CNY and remember the 1959 season.

SU' s all time winning percentage is .580, which simply means in a 12 game season we have a good chance of winning about 7 games a year. Last year Shafer hit the 7 mark, his first year, had to build a staff in a hurry, get out and recruit, and experience some on the job training. I believe he did a great job last year and brought in some excellent recruits, many like Ishmael, Philips anf Franklin are future stars.

He did not become a lousy coach in one year, this squad was decimated with injuries and had a very difficult schedule. Yes, he made mistakes, we all do, but I believe he will get the support from SU and have a long successful coaching tenure at the Cuse.

Bashing him, as many are doing on this board, and calling for him to be fired after one pretty good year and one bad one is, ridiculous .

i believe there is very small minority on this board that wants him replaced. i am more concerned that he grow into this job faster. he needs to assume the leadership and not be a part of the band but the ceo. he also needs to temper himself and mature . i want him to succeed, but have grown weary of the years of failure, and mediocrity. what bothers me most is all the bravado, from the university re football, fast paced offense, etc etc etc. every year they spew the koolaid, and every year i drink it. not anymore i am on the wagon . as another poster previously, believe su lost some long time sth this year. i may buy a mini package instead, depending what i see in the off season re: changes in approach, attitude etc. . i am also fan from 1960 on--

 

[IthacaBarrel]

i believe there is very small minority on this board that wants him replaced. i am more concerned that he grow into this job faster. he needs to assume the leadership and not be a part of the band but the ceo. he also needs to temper himself and mature . i want him to succeed, but have grown weary of the years of failure, and mediocrity. what bothers me most is all the bravado, from the university re football, fast paced offense, etc etc etc. every year they spew the koolaid, and every year i drink it. not anymore i am on the wagon . as another poster previously, believe su lost some long time sth this year. i may buy a mini package instead, depending what i see in the off season re: changes in approach, attitude etc. . i am also fan from 1960 on--

I don't think anyone can argue with this

 

[rrlbees]

Until the university and its alumni and boosters step up and 100% supports the football program, we shouldn't expect anything better than 8-5 or maybe 9-4.

Fixed

 

[Scooch]

I would say our recent history has been about skimming the line between good and bad.

2010 we white knuckled our way to wins. Not taking anything away from that team, but it made the 2011 breakdown not all that surprising.

2013 it took a last second score to get bowl eligible, and then a late score to win that bowl. Not as big a margin between last year's record and this year's when you remember how close we were last year to staying home at 5 and 7 instead of coming home bowl victors at 7 and 5.

2012 was really our only definitively "good" year recently.

True, but even 2012 wasn't a slam dunk.

A lot of people forget that we were 4-5 at one point that year, needing last second heroics to get that 4th win against a lousy USF team, and in the midst of a 4-12 stretch going back to 2011. We closed that season wonderfully, but in early November things weren't looking so hot.

You can argue that the modern (meaning 1950s onward) "history of SU football" is two decade+ stretches of very good surrounded by much longer stretches mediocrity.

During the 12 years of 1956-1967: SU was ranked at some point during 8 seasons, won a national title, and went to 6 bowls (back when that was a tremendous accomplishment).

During the 12 years of 1987-1998: SU was ranked at some point during 11 seasons, won 3 conference titles and a couple Lambert Trophies pre-Big East, and went to 10 bowls, 7 of which were of the major/New Year's Day variety.

In those 24 seasons we went 193-67-5 and had a .728 winning percentage.

In the other 41 seasons since 1950 we went 206-247-3 and had a .452 winning percentage.


So I guess the point is that we've had two really good runs in the past 65 years, surrounded by a lot of "meh". Giving Shafer a 3rd year isn't the end of the world, basically.

 

[anomander]

Fixed

That's BS. There are football schools and there are just schools that have a football program. We fall into the latter. I'm not denying we need boosters, but that only covers part of the problem. Do you think any of the SEC schools, or any other top program solely relies on boosters? Looks at Michigan. They have as many private donors that you can ask for, but they are blaming their struggles because the University is not committed to football. A big complaint is about their pricing structure for seating. Sound familiar? There are so many easy fixes the athletic department can make to help improve the program. I can go on and on. The program was ignored for so long it was allowed to fall in the abyss. Now all a sudden we expect people to donate to a program that isn't supported by the University? Maybe the University should make an investment to show their supporters that their investments aren't going to waste. It's simple. We aren't committed to football now, we never have been, and we never will.

 

[Eric15]

True, but even 2012 wasn't a slam dunk.

A lot of people forget that we were 4-5 at one point that year, needing last second heroics to get that 4th win against a lousy USF team, and in the midst of a 4-12 stretch going back to 2011. We closed that season wonderfully, but in early November things weren't looking so hot.

You can argue that the modern (meaning 1950s onward) "history of SU football" is two decade+ stretches of very good surrounded by much longer stretches mediocrity.

During the 12 years of 1956-1967: SU was ranked at some point during 8 seasons, won a national title, and went to 6 bowls (back when that was a tremendous accomplishment).

During the 12 years of 1987-1998: SU was ranked at some point during 11 seasons, won 3 conference titles and a couple Lambert Trophies pre-Big East, and went to 10 bowls, 7 of which were of the major/New Year's Day variety.

In those 24 seasons we went 193-67-5 and had a .728 winning percentage.

In the other 41 seasons since 1950 we went 206-247-3 and had a .452 winning percentage.


So I guess the point is that we've had two really good runs in the past 65 years, surrounded by a lot of "meh". Giving Shafer a 3rd year isn't the end of the world, basically.

Good post, Scooch.

I live and die with SU football and will support this team for the rest of my life, but in all reality, our fanbase probably overrates the historic success of our program. Since the AP poll began in 1939, we have finished in the Top 10 exactly 4 times. Other than a brief period in the late 50s and early 60s, we have never (including 1987 and the McNabb years) been a legitimate player in the national title picture.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Our overall history is that we are an average team with below average fans.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Not counting the GRob era...

SU is 74-73 Post-McNabb.

 

[rrlbees]

That's BS. There are football schools and there are just schools that have a football program. We fall into the latter. I'm not denying we need boosters, but that only covers part of the problem. Do you think any of the SEC schools, or any other top program solely relies on boosters? Looks at Michigan. They have as many private donors that you can ask for, but they are blaming their struggles because the University is not committed to football. A big complaint is about their pricing structure for seating. Sound familiar? There are so many easy fixes the athletic department can make to help improve the program. I can go on and on. The program was ignored for so long it was allowed to fall in the abyss. Now all a sudden we expect people to donate to a program that isn't supported by the University? Maybe the University should make an investment to show their supporters that their investments aren't going to waste. It's simple. We aren't committed to football now, we never have been, and we never will.

You just made my argument. You need both.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Historically we've worn Orange. Perhaps restoring that will help?

 

[rrlbees]

Historically we've worn Orange. Perhaps restoring that will help?

That would be a great start.

 

[tipphill]

That's BS. There are football schools and there are just schools that have a football program. We fall into the latter. I'm not denying we need boosters, but that only covers part of the problem. Do you think any of the SEC schools, or any other top program solely relies on boosters? Looks at Michigan. They have as many private donors that you can ask for, but they are blaming their struggles because the University is not committed to football. A big complaint is about their pricing structure for seating. Sound familiar? There are so many easy fixes the athletic department can make to help improve the program. I can go on and on. The program was ignored for so long it was allowed to fall in the abyss. Now all a sudden we expect people to donate to a program that isn't supported by the University? Maybe the University should make an investment to show their supporters that their investments aren't going to waste. It's simple. We aren't committed to football now, we never have been, and we never will.

i feel much the same as you do---we did however build a ipf as token investment--but you are correct in what you say. the worst part about it is that it doesn't bother me that much anymore, after this season i past the point of anger. they are what they are---and they seem to be content with that. we are barely a mac school. the state bailed out su with dome and offered to do it again--- we turned it down--and no one on the hill was publicly outraged or commented.

 

[tipphill]

Historically we've worn Orange. Perhaps restoring that will help?

how absurd of you to suggest we claim our identity

 

[ImperialOrange]

how absurd of you to suggest we claim our identity

Orange is a sexy color. They made this Orange

They made this Dark Blue