What kind of analytics leads to 29% 3 pt shooter in conference games leading the team in attempts

[Millhouse]

Maybe NIL is a problem but when the offense is this obviously stagnant by design (or lack thereof) , I can't even bother to consider it being a factor

Taylor and Bell can shoot. (Carlos too but how do you get shots at his size) But Moore starling and cuffe are taking 11 threes a game

It's really hard to watch.

 

[cusefan88]

Maybe NIL is a problem but when the offense is this obviously stagnant by design (or lack thereof) , I can't even bother to consider it being a factor

Taylor and Bell can shoot. (Carlos too but how do you get shots at his size) But Moore starling and cuffe are taking 11 threes a game

It's really hard to watch.

I really like JJ but ultimately building the roster around an inefficient, poor shooting SG who plays bad defense will sink you.

 

[RF2044]

Maybe NIL is a problem but when the offense is this obviously stagnant by design (or lack thereof) , I can't even bother to consider it being a factor

Taylor and Bell can shoot. (Carlos too but how do you get shots at his size) But Moore starling and cuffe are taking 11 threes a game

It's really hard to watch.

Agree 100%.

The foundational issues related to coaching are a much bigger factor.

 

[Newhouser]

Cuffe and JJ both think they are much better than they actually are resulting in shots that are head scratching at best.

I think Moore's thought is "I am firing and will hopefully make one so I get to stay on the floor".

 

[Cuseball]

I really like JJ but ultimately building the roster around an inefficient, poor shooting SG who plays bad defense will sink you.

Yes and that is a major problem and things will continue to be awful if you do it again next year. He has some positives but should not be your 1st or 2nd threat. His inability to play defense, poor dribbling and passing and mediocre shooting does not offset his ability to drive. He can be a weapon on the fast break but we do very little of that.

 

[Grbac]

Cuffe and JJ both think they are much better than they actually are resulting in shots that are head scratching at best.

I think Moore's thought is "I am firing and will hopefully make one so I get to stay on the floor".

Which Moore should know it doesn’t matter. He was on fire in game before last and still got taken out. Red has his scheduled subs no matter what is going on.

 

[Scooch]

One of Boeheim's great strengths as a coach was that he made sure that the right guys took most of the shots. That sounds silly, but giving too many shots (or the wrong kind of shots) to bad shooters is something that sinks a lot of teams.

Autry doesn't do that. Even last year, Starling and Mintz combined took more 3s than Bell (221 vs. 200), and did so at an awful 0.307 clip.

 

[hoopsupstate]

One of Boeheim's great strengths as a coach was that he made sure that the right guys took most of the shots. That sounds silly, but giving too many shots (or the wrong kind of shots) to bad shooters is something that sinks a lot of teams.

Autry doesn't do that. Even last year, Starling and Mintz combined took more 3s than Bell (221 vs. 200), and did so at an awful 0.307 clip.

Good coaches make sure his players know who and where to get their best players shots. They also get the rest of the players to understand what their roles are and how to flourish in their roles. It important to recognize all players for them doing what makes their team the best. This just passing it around and hoping we get a good shot is not the answer. A good shot by a bad shooter is no longer a good shot. On defense this year how many times have we seen on defense have we seen some help the helpers on defense. We can’t get one helper let alone someone helping the helper!

 

[Fly Rodder]

One of Boeheim's great strengths as a coach was that he made sure that the right guys took most of the shots. That sounds silly, but giving too many shots (or the wrong kind of shots) to bad shooters is something that sinks a lot of teams.

Autry doesn't do that. Even last year, Starling and Mintz combined took more 3s than Bell (221 vs. 200), and did so at an awful 0.307 clip.

Problem is that JAB, at least in his later years, wasn't particularly concerned with what kind of shots they were taking. Girard and Cooney attempted a lot of twos for guys who shouldn't have. He let Tyus have carte blanche and attempt whatever crazy shots he felt like taking. Red is running the same offense. Basic screens and ISO dribble drives to get his designated scorer opportunities to "create". The rest of the guys have no real role.

Minor changes to Girard's role from SU to Clemson led to his best and most efficient scoring year.

 

[HyattsCuse]

One of Boeheim's great strengths as a coach was that he made sure that the right guys took most of the shots. That sounds silly, but giving too many shots (or the wrong kind of shots) to bad shooters is something that sinks a lot of teams.

Autry doesn't do that. Even last year, Starling and Mintz combined took more 3s than Bell (221 vs. 200), and did so at an awful 0.307 clip.

Doesn’t sound silly at all. Exhibits A and B were Kadary Richmond and Quincy Guerrier. Both guys wanted to shoot more outside and JB said no. Makes total sense from a team success standpoint.

I don’t think we can look purely at the stats though at least in the case of Bell versus Judah/JJ. I’d like to see Bell get off more 3’s instead of other guys, but Bell seems to be his own worst enemy that affects his effort and confidence levels. He’s often slow to shoot unless he’s wide open or doesn’t work to get open. That forces other guys to take the shots as a result.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One of Boeheim's great strengths as a coach was that he made sure that the right guys took most of the shots. That sounds silly, but giving too many shots (or the wrong kind of shots) to bad shooters is something that sinks a lot of teams.

Ehhhhhhhhh I'd argue he was far more forgiving of inefficient perimeter players piling up shots and deemphasized more efficient interior scorers.

Not to say Red's good at it, but I complained a lot about JB underutilizing post threats. For a while we struggled to execute even getting a pass to a player that fought for position on the block. It was maddening.

Maliq eventually surpassed him, but for a lot of last season Taylor had more shot attempts than him. It was Boeheim-esque.

 

[sufandu]

Some guys need to be open to shoot and can't create space to get a shot if they're not (Bell). Other guys are asked to handle the ball more and create their own shot more, even if it's contested (JJ). We need to be better at getting good shooters in better situations. Do we have anyone that demands a second defender to help so that others can get open?

 

[Niastri]

With Red coaching the offense, it seems that the best option is a ball dominant, dynamic scoring point guard who can score every way possible, and also pass. Think Judah Mintz, but as a willing passer with three point range.

Unfortunately, those guys are all five star one and done points.

The offense needs an overhaul otherwise.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Doesn’t sound silly at all. Exhibits A and B were Kadary Richmond and Quincy Guerrier. Both guys wanted to shoot more outside and JB said no. Makes total sense from a team success standpoint.

I don’t think we can look purely at the stats though at least in the case of Bell versus Judah/JJ. I’d like to see Bell get off more 3’s instead of other guys, but Bell seems to be his own worst enemy that affects his effort and confidence levels. He’s often slow to shoot unless he’s wide open or doesn’t work to get open. That forces other guys to take the shots as a result.

I think I’ve seen more Bell’s jumpers blocked this year than his two previous years combined. He did get into a good rhythm last night in the first half. Unfortunately, he got very few shots in the second half. This team is not the brightest when getting the ball to the right people.

 

[JOC44]

In a number of his final years, JB dragged the team to the NCAA bubble by going with an "all defense" lineup for the last one-third of the season. Think the years with Frank Howard running the point. With those teams, you could tolerate a lot of bad shots because the offense was so bad you weren't going to a get a better shot later in the clock, and the defense was so good the other team was actually getting worse shots (or equally-bad shots).

That philosophy doesn't work with a team that has perhaps the worst collection of defenders assembled since the French army in 1939. No rim protector at all, guards who literally can't stay in front of anyone, a complete lack of effort and desire, and only one player (Taylor) who would even qualify as an average D-1 defender.

 

[Fly Rodder]

From Nate Oats after almost fumbling an 18 point lead against Arkansas:

I gotta go watch the film to give a better answer on that because, at the beginning half, I thought our intensity was good. I thought we were forcing them to take some tough shots. They took 19 mid-range twos, and we didn’t take any. So you look at like the field-goal percentage, for a while there we were up like 60. We ended up at 55, and they were 43. So I thought we did a good job forcing them to take the type of shots we wanted them to take. And they didn’t shoot bad. they shot 37 percent on those mid-range twos, which is about what most teams would shoot.

 

[RF2044]

With Red coaching the offense, it seems that the best option is a ball dominant, dynamic scoring point guard who can score every way possible, and also pass. Think Judah Mintz, but as a willing passer with three point range.

Unfortunately, those guys are all five star one and done points.

The offense needs an overhaul otherwise.

In other words, players who's individual talent transcends the lack of offensive concept. And when all else fails, they can go get a shot.

 

[Fly Rodder]

In other words, players who's individual talent transcends the lack of offensive concept. And when all else fails, they can go get a shot.

There's a saying I've heard in some management classes that successful companies rely on quality processes to execute work. Mediocre companies rely on the heroics of employees to execute work.

 

[007]

One of Boeheim's great strengths as a coach was that he made sure that the right guys took most of the shots. That sounds silly, but giving too many shots (or the wrong kind of shots) to bad shooters is something that sinks a lot of teams.

Autry doesn't do that. Even last year, Starling and Mintz combined took more 3s than Bell (221 vs. 200), and did so at an awful 0.307 clip.

Spot on observation about JB's greatest strengths. I was at a coaching clinic many years ago and Pitno talked about that point - JB's uncanny ability to put players in the best positions to maximize their abilities. And he did that without analytics. You don't have 1 losing season over a 47 year career by accident.

Most of the heat Red is getting is warranted. But I think part of what people misinterpret as having "no concept" on offense is his attempt to make sure his best players are taking the majority of the shots. He wants JJ taking shots despite the poor 3 percentages. The long drawn out possessions that don't appear to have a purpose are an attempt to get the ball inside to Lampkin and Davis. Given the available talent, that concept is not outrageous. There is a plan. The execution is the issue.

 

[Scooch]

Ehhhhhhhhh I'd argue he was far more forgiving of inefficient perimeter players piling up shots and deemphasized more efficient interior scorers.

Not to say Red's good at it, but I complained a lot about JB underutilizing post threats. For a while we struggled to execute even getting a pass to a player that fought for position on the block. It was maddening.

Maliq eventually surpassed him, but for a lot of last season Taylor had more shot attempts than him. It was Boeheim-esque.

Let's assume that when I talk about great things that Boeheim did I'm excluding the last 5-6 years of his tenure.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let's assume that when I talk about great things that Boeheim did I'm excluding the last 5-6 years of his tenure.

It goes back further. I actually think Joe was pretty good at passing into the post.

Onuaku was criminally underused, for example.

 

[djcon57]

Spot on observation about JB's greatest strengths. I was at a coaching clinic many years ago and Pitno talked about that point - JB's uncanny ability to put players in the best positions to maximize their abilities. And he did that without analytics. You don't have 1 losing season over a 47 year career by accident.

Most of the heat Red is getting is warranted. But I think part of what people misinterpret as having "no concept" on offense is his attempt to make sure his best players are taking the majority of the shots. He wants JJ taking shots despite the poor 3 percentages. The long drawn out possessions that don't appear to have a purpose are an attempt to get the ball inside to Lampkin and Davis. Given the available talent, that concept is not outrageous. There is a plan. The execution is the issue.

I would agree, but the part that confuses me is if you HAD to bring back Bell who doesnt rebound or play D, how is more the offseason not spend working on designing plays for him and getting him open. The plays we run for getting open looks are so basic. I wasn't joking when I said we were running the 94 Rockets offense at some points. Give to Eddie. 3 guys STAND on the other side of the court (including Carlos in the corner, genius) and Bell stands at the 3 pt line. In 2025, thats just not going to get it done

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I would agree, but the part that confuses me is if you HAD to bring back Bell who doesnt rebound or play D, how is more the offseason not spend working on designing plays for him and getting him open. The plays we run for getting open looks are so basic. I wasn't joking when I said we were running the 94 Rockets offense at some points. Give to Eddie. 3 guys STAND on the other side of the court (including Carlos in the corner, genius) and Bell stands at the 3 pt line. In 2025, thats juts not going to get it done

We did a better job getting Bell shots earlier in the year (although I'd argue still not a great job), he just was missing his threes. He started showing some ability to drive and get to the line. Then he just fell apart for a month.

 

[007]

I would agree, but the part that confuses me is if you HAD to bring back Bell who doesnt rebound or play D, how is more the offseason not spend working on designing plays for him and getting him open. The plays we run for getting open looks are so basic. I wasn't joking when I said we were running the 94 Rockets offense at some points. Give to Eddie. 3 guys STAND on the other side of the court (including Carlos in the corner, genius) and Bell stands at the 3 pt line. In 2025, thats juts not going to get it done

I hear you. I think there is more to the Bell story than we see on the court...

I can you tell based on a couple of preseason practices I was fortunate enough to observe that the plan at that time seemed to center around pushing the ball up the court with Carlos into a transition offense. Getting Bell and JJ looks from 3 by fanning them out during the transition was the focus, followed by posting up Lampkin. They went to a 4 out motion offense from there if nothing showed in transition. The motion offense has since been replaced with strong side screening action to get inside looks and JJ trying to create off the dribble. To my eye, standing around on the weakside is an attempt to draw weakside defenders away from the lane. I can see what they are trying to do, even if I don't agree with the plan. But, as I said, execution, coaching, and talent all seem to be factors.

The disaster at the other end of the floor is the most damning issue from a coaching perspective, IMO.

 

[OttoMets]

Ehhhhhhhhh I'd argue he was far more forgiving of inefficient perimeter players piling up shots and deemphasized more efficient interior scorers.

...

Kris Geeeeeee-oseph!