What needs to happen to be elite?

[CuseCrew08]

In 1992 our home schedule was: Texas, Ohio State, Rutgers, Pitt, Virginia Tech, and Miami... And we went 10-2... so winning brings out average fans?

 

[dollarbill44]

In 1992 our home schedule was: Texas, Ohio State, Rutgers, Pitt, Virginia Tech, and Miami... And we went 10-2... so winning brings out average fans?

Texas was a mediocre program in '92 and was not really a big draw. Rutgers was shite, Pitt was mediocre and VT was not good. The fan base was solid because of the success of '87 to '91, which does prove the point that sustained winning brings out the fans. But that home schedule was really not much better than what we have this year, to be honest.

 

[CuseCrew08]

Texas was a mediocre program in '92 and was not really a big draw. Rutgers was shite, Pitt was mediocre and VT was not good. The fan base was solid because of the success of '87 to '91, which does prove the point that sustained winning brings out the fans. But that home schedule was really not much better than what we have this year, to be honest.

Ha, what do I know? I was 6 in 1992... It looked like a good shedule to me!

 

[SmilinBob]

Ohio State and Texas have huge followings and when you schedule those types of schools you'll get some pretty nice attendance numbers as long as we have a decent turnout.

 

[dollarbill44]

Ohio State and Texas have huge followings and when you schedule those types of schools you'll get some pretty nice attendance numbers as long as we have a decent turnout.

True, but the impressive attendance numbers from that season were really the other home games. Averaging 49k for Rutgers, Pitt and VaTech is very impressive.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Wake game is a bad example because we sucked through the first 3 quarters.

Not really a bad example. They still stayed until the Bailey fumble.

 

[xc84]

True, but the impressive attendance numbers from that season were really the other home games. Averaging 49k for Rutgers, Pitt and VaTech is very impressive.

The 90s were relatively good years for SU football attendance. It is not also a coincidence that it was their winningest decade ever and SU had one of the best record of any team in the 90s. Winning brings people out. And '92 was the result of prior winning... starting with '87.

 

[SoBristol]

I was also going to suggest that you have to define "elite". Elite is typically reserved for the top 1%-2% of any group. To me, elite is a top 10 program. For example, over a 10-year period, the team would have to be considered one of the top 10 teams of that decade based on success on the field (W/Ls) and in the rankings.

I don't think SU ever gets to that level, but it can certainly get to the next step down - #11-#25 level again, which would be the next step down, with an occasional foray into the top 10 if all goes well. And by occasional top 10, I mean once or twice every 10 years.

As for what needs to happen, setting aside the issue of facilities upgrades, which I think we all agree needs to happen to some extent, I think they are doing what they need to do, which is take diamonds-in-the-rough kind of kids and develop them. Once you've built up a steady core, you can keep replacing guys as they graduate and you can get the occasional 4 star recruits.

Take away the notion of "elite" (not really possible for Syracuse in the age of SEC and Oregon domination), but talk about "exciting" and "relevant" -- a contender in the ACC versus the likes of Virginia Tech. And, in case you weren't watching, there was serious talent on the field (both teams) when Virginia Tech played Georgia Tech last week.
To make a big step in that direction, we need 3 or 4 highly rated recruits on each side of the ball, but mostly on the offensive side, at skill positions. For openers, we need an elite QB, an elite RB and an elite WR. Talk facilities upgrades, and diamonds in the rough, all you want. If you want to be relevant, you start with an elite RB for the same reason that John Majors started his rebuilding of Pitt (decades ago) with Tony Dorsett (plus another 30 recruits in the years when you didn't have annual limits). Add a run/pass QB and a terrific WR - you get a team that people want to watch. Can be done -- think McPherson, Michael Owens, Rob Moore & Quadry Ismail.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Things you need to be an "elite" program, in this order.

1.)Facilities!!! Great facilities will have a trickle down affect. Facilities will attract both players and coaches.

2.)Recruiting, facilities will help greatly with recruiting, but so does winning. Marrone has brought in solid recruits, and depth to our roster. I expect to see an improvement in recruiting next year, as he's finally replenished our depth.

3.)Fan support. This will help with getting money for the program, and getting recruits. We have pretty solid fan support. I'd say there are a solid 25k who attend as many games as they can. The rest are made up of "fair weather fans". Which we also have a nice amount of, considering our program has been horrendous for so long. Getting 40k a game is more than many colleges, who have been winning recently. Getting the 40k average up to 45k will be key in getting recruits. We saw what 45k looks like at the West Virginia game. It looks full, and is loud as hell. We just need to average 45k a game. If we average 45k we'll probably see 50k against better ACC teams like VaTech, Florida State, Clemson, etc.

 

[javadoc]

Things you need to be an "elite" program, in this order...
1.)Facilities!!! Great facilities will have a trickle down affect. Facilities will attract both players and coaches.

Look at the rise of Oregon and Oklahoma State as programs, and the enormous money that has been poured into those schools by wealthy alumni.

 

[kingottoiii]

Cheat!

Plain and simple. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. Everyone is cheating now a days. The NCAA is powerless and will never act. So we should be paying guys to push recruits our way. Negative recruit the hell out of PSU, RU, and UConn. Do what ever it takes. The right way is the wrong way to winning.

 

[Ghost]

Things you need to be an "elite" program, in this order.

1.)Facilities!!! Great facilities will have a trickle down affect. Facilities will attract both players and coaches.

2.)Recruiting, facilities will help greatly with recruiting, but so does winning. Marrone has brought in solid recruits, and depth to our roster. I expect to see an improvement in recruiting next year, as he's finally replenished our depth.

3.)Fan support. This will help with getting money for the program, and getting recruits. We have pretty solid fan support. I'd say there are a solid 25k who attend as many games as they can. The rest are made up of "fair weather fans". Which we also have a nice amount of, considering our program has been horrendous for so long. Getting 40k a game is more than many colleges, who have been winning recently. Getting the 40k average up to 45k will be key in getting recruits. We saw what 45k looks like at the West Virginia game. It looks full, and is loud as hell. We just need to average 45k a game. If we average 45k we'll probably see 50k against better ACC teams like VaTech, Florida State, Clemson, etc.

#1 would be a huge step. I don't think Syracuse will ever be elite, maybe one great year out of 10 type team, but that would be enough for me tbh. At this point just getting back to being a semi-regular guest in the Top 25 would be fine - from there you just hope you have that one year where you can compete with the SEC/Oregon type programs and maybe you get a NC out of it. If we're Top 25 you always have a shot at getting a true game-changer and that may be enough in any given year.

Otherwise, it's going to come down to the program making incremental improvements. The recruiting has to improve, and with that the record will start to get better. Transitioning to the ACC might put a damper on that short-term, but improving the facilities could assist in luring recruits along with the newness of the move to the ACC. That won't last forever though. Truthfully, I don't see it happening - so let's cheat! That's the most efficient route.

 

[Boston Tiger]

We are a few days removed from last weeks game and have a bye this week so who about something not game related. What are three things that need to happen for Syracuse to be elite team again? Could be anything, coaching changes, facilities, or recruiting, what ever. So what does everyone think the three main things that could make this program elite are?

I agree with the posters who are saying that an investment in the facilities is a key. Unfortunately, college football is now an arms race, and you have to impress the recruits and their parents/guardians when they come in for a visit. I've followed the rebuilding process at LSU, a program that was in extremely poor shape 15-20 years ago, but is up at the elite level now. A lot of people dislike Nick Saban because he is such a douche bag, but he insisted that LSU had to upgrade their facilities when he took the job. The first thing that was built was an academic support center for the student athletes, and that was soon followed by a new and impressive football complex. The funny thing is that he took off for his short stint in the NFL right before the complex opened, and Les Miles got to reap the benefits of that investment.

The bottom line is that the booster club spent several million dollars improving the facilities for the football program, and that's paid off in the recruiting game. But they have also had to raise fees so substantially that many long-time fans had to give up their tickets, since the fees on top of fees became too burdensome.

 

[RF2044]

1. Upgrade facilities to the point where we're no longer losing the arms race by an embarrassing margin to our peers
2. Hire an OC who runs a system conducive to the collegiate game
3. Rectify the gap at QB that has plagued this program since McNabb's departure after the 1999 season

 

[SoBristol]

1. Upgrade facilities to the point where we're no longer losing the arms race by an embarrassing margin to our peers
2. Hire an OC who runs a system conducive to the collegiate game
3. Rectify the gap at QB that has plagued this program since McNabb's departure after the 1999 season

Like that list, but some comments on what is practical/timing.
1. For facilities, what we need is a Melo center for football -- indoor practice field, rehab etc facilities, academic support center. Need that naming grant of $5MM and 12 plus months to construct.
2. OC -- not going to happen any time soon, within our budget for assistants (because the real priority is keeping Hackett) and given what Marrone sees as his own role. Marrone has already turned over defense; he isn't doing specials; he isn't inspiring on the sidelines. What is his value if he isn't applying his experience on the offensive side? Marrone & Hackett have to evolve as they bring in talent and as Hackett evolves his playbook to fit QBs like Broyld and Hunt.
3. Skill positions -- The real needs are more to make sure Broyld and Hunt are surrounding by serious skill at RB and receivers. RB and receivers can play as frosh -- Joe Morris did (big impact in his 5th game?); Mike Williams did. Taj Smith came in as a JUCO and had immediate impact. With the other blocks in place, two impact skill guys (RB, WR) could make this offense relevant as soon as next year.

 

[xc84]

Facilities. Really? How many kids do we lose to schools because of facilities? It's about the program and winning. Facilities come after winning and after gaining fan loyalty. It's all about winning games and kids want to be part of a winning program. That means, right now, coaches have to convince kids we can more games in the future...with their help. Once we start winning, the program sells itself.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Facilities. Really? How many kids do we lose to schools because of facilities? It's about the program and winning. Facilities come after winning and after gaining fan loyalty. It's all about winning games and kids want to be part of a winning program. That means, right now, coaches have to convince kids we can more games in the future...with their help. Once we start winning, the program sells itself.

Facilities are an issue, not the only issue but believe me they are an issue in our moving forward

 

[RoysRunts]

Recruits,wins,Recruits,Wins get the Best Players in NYS , Get a Couple from PA (At least 1 from Western Pa),Florida, and reestablish a presence in NJ. Keep the Best OHSL kids here.

 

[dollarbill44]

Take away the notion of "elite" (not really possible for Syracuse in the age of SEC and Oregon domination), but talk about "exciting" and "relevant" -- a contender in the ACC versus the likes of Virginia Tech. And, in case you weren't watching, there was serious talent on the field (both teams) when Virginia Tech played Georgia Tech last week.
To make a big step in that direction, we need 3 or 4 highly rated recruits on each side of the ball, but mostly on the offensive side, at skill positions. For openers, we need an elite QB, an elite RB and an elite WR. Talk facilities upgrades, and diamonds in the rough, all you want. If you want to be relevant, you start with an elite RB for the same reason that John Majors started his rebuilding of Pitt (decades ago) with Tony Dorsett (plus another 30 recruits in the years when you didn't have annual limits). Add a run/pass QB and a terrific WR - you get a team that people want to watch. Can be done -- think McPherson, Michael Owens, Rob Moore & Quadry Ismail.

That's all well and good, but how do you go about getting an elite recruit starting from where we were in 2007, or where we are right now. You have to show something to get them interested, whether that is money (a la MSU and Cam Newton), tangible improvement on the field, top notch facilities or an innovative offensive or defensive style of play. You might get lucky and pluck a top-rated recruit, like Tim Green, but that happens once in 20 years where you can get a guy like that and he actually pans out. I'd rather not rely on luck to make it happen.

Back to my list, I don't want to offer guys money to play, we aren't implementing an innovative style anytime soon, and facilities cost a lot of money. We are working on it, but short of a T. Boone Pickens or Nike taking us under their wing, we are going to struggle in this area. That leaves tangible improvement on the field and that is where developing a pipeline of what I called diamond in the rough athletes that can be coached up to play a high quality of football in their Jr and Sr seasons and win 8 or 9 games to get the interest of local fans and higher level recruits.

 

[SmilinBob]

Are the admission standards at SU different than most of the top 25 schools when it comes to football? I know that holtz got nd to lower theirs when he was there and that was the last time the irish really competed and along this topic, are the football and basketball under different restrictions?

 

[SU2NASA]

Again, we need to make Syracuse football the most corrupt program in college football. Pay players, cars, strippers, make it rain after TDs, bounties on other players' heads.

It works for the SEC, what's the downside, probation? vacating victories? I'll take that after winning national championships and beating down on our foes. Go on probation for a few years and start it back up after we're done with probation so we're not a repeat offender for the death penalty.

 

[Upstate]

Facilities, winning, NE talent, more exciting offense that kids want to play in.

 

[kingottoiii]

Again, we need to make Syracuse football the most corrupt program in college football. Pay players, cars, strippers, make it rain after TDs, bounties on other players' heads.

It works for the SEC, what's the downside, probation? vacating victories? I'll take that after winning national championships and beating down on our foes. Go on probation for a few years and start it back up after we're done with probation so we're not a repeat offender for the death penalty.

This sadly is the only answer. Name me a clean program? It is almost impossible to do. I really hope that Marrone's message is not the same as our actions. Because if it is then we will always be behind in the recruiting game. Friggin UCF is cheating! Just about everyone in the ACC has been caught the last few years cheating. And with all this cheating the NCAA has done nothing. So we better be cheating as well.

 

[xc84]

Facilities are an issue, not the only issue but believe me they are an issue in our moving forward

I agree they are an issue. I think facilities gets us to another level but we won't get to that intermediate level until we find a way to win some more. Sure, if they can do the facilities thing they should ...but it's likely that they need a big donor to step up (otherwise we would not be discussing it) ...and big donors like to get enthused about a project first...and to get enthused, they like to see that the program is on sound footing...basically...we need some consistency in winning.

 

[Upstate]

This sadly is the only answer. Name me a clean program? It is almost impossible to do. I really hope that Marrone's message is not the same as our actions. Because if it is then we will always be behind in the recruiting game. Friggin UCF is cheating! Just about everyone in the ACC has been caught the last few years cheating. And with all this cheating the NCAA has done nothing. So we better be cheating as well.

We were a clean program until the University tweeted about DC.