What needs to happen to be elite?

[SU2NASA]

This sadly is the only answer. Name me a clean program? It is almost impossible to do. I really hope that Marrone's message is not the same as our actions. Because if it is then we will always be behind in the recruiting game. Friggin UCF is cheating! Just about everyone in the ACC has been caught the last few years cheating. And with all this cheating the NCAA has done nothing. So we better be cheating as well.

UNC? They didn't cheat enough obviously. We need to go 80's Miami style. Someone buy a yacht with a stripper pole.

 

[dollarbill44]

UNC? They didn't cheat enough obviously. We need to go 80's Miami style. Someone buy a yacht with a stripper pole.

If I had one of those, I wouldn't share it!

 

[SoBristol]

That's all well and good, but how do you go about getting an elite recruit starting from where we were in 2007, or where we are right now. You have to show something to get them interested, whether that is money (a la MSU and Cam Newton), tangible improvement on the field, top notch facilities or an innovative offensive or defensive style of play. You might get lucky and pluck a top-rated recruit, like Tim Green, but that happens once in 20 years where you can get a guy like that and he actually pans out. I'd rather not rely on luck to make it happen.

Back to my list, I don't want to offer guys money to play, we aren't implementing an innovative style anytime soon, and facilities cost a lot of money. We are working on it, but short of a T. Boone Pickens or Nike taking us under their wing, we are going to struggle in this area. That leaves tangible improvement on the field and that is where developing a pipeline of what I called diamond in the rough athletes that can be coached up to play a high quality of football in their Jr and Sr seasons and win 8 or 9 games to get the interest of local fans and higher level recruits.

Please. If you are GROB, you land Taj Smith, Deleone Carter, Doug Hogue and Mike Williams in the span of two years. Once in 20 years? Come-on -- GROB got that part (offensive skill guys) done. If you added those 4 guys to the team we have this year, this SU team has 7 wins, looking at two big, relevant games and a big bowl. Not elite, but not sitting with a #90 ranked offense.

 

[dollarbill44]

Please. If you are GROB, you land Taj Smith, Deleone Carter, Doug Hogue and Mike Williams in the span of two years. Once in 20 years? Come-on -- GROB got that part (offensive skill guys) done. If you added those 4 guys to the team we have this year, this SU team has 7 wins, looking at two big, relevant games and a big bowl. Not elite, but not sitting with a #90 ranked offense.

Which one of those guys was "elite" coming out of HS? 3 star and 4 star recruits are NOT elite. 5 stars are elite. Taj Smith was not a HS recruit for SU. Mike Williams only got noticed by SU because of Johnny Flynn. Delone Carter was Mr. Ohio, but it isn't like we beat out LSU, Bama, Florida, USC for him.

Maybe there is a misconception out there about what is "elite". In the world of athletics, "elite" means the top 1%-2% of performers. HOF players are elite. HS athletes that can name which school they want to play for are elite.

 

[xc84]

Which one of those guys was "elite" coming out of HS? 3 star and 4 star recruits are NOT elite. 5 stars are elite. Taj Smith was not a HS recruit for SU. Mike Williams only got noticed by SU because of Johnny Flynn. Delone Carter was Mr. Ohio, but it isn't like we beat out LSU, Bama, Florida, USC for him.

Maybe there is a misconception out there about what is "elite". In the world of athletics, "elite" means the top 1%-2% of performers. HOF players are elite. HS athletes that can name which school they want to play for are elite.

I you make the NFL, you are well under the best 1% of your high school class. So, by your definition, those guys are elite recruits. they may not be elite NFL players (Hall of Famers) but they turned out to be elite recruits (better than top 1%). The funny part about that is, many on these boards judge good recruits based on their star ratings. But as you point out, those guys, who turned out very well were not highly rated recruits.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I agree they are an issue. I think facilities gets us to another level but we won't get to that intermediate level until we find a way to win some more. Sure, if they can do the facilities thing they should ...but it's likely that they need a big donor to step up (otherwise we would not be discussing it) ...and big donors like to get enthused about a project first...and to get enthused, they like to see that the program is on sound footing...basically...we need some consistency in winning.

Facilities are a pretty big deal especially to recruits. I've read too many recruit interviews that the kid mentions Syracuse as well as other schools he's visited, he talks about the other schools nice facilities, and only once we got a "their weight room is pretty nice" comment.

Donors need to buy in first. There have been plenty on this board that want to donate specifically to football facilities without much luck. Hell put buckets in the turnstiles marked "facilities donations" and I'd throw in cash everytime.

Donors = facilities = recruits = consistant winning = donors saying "I helped do this" and watching a good football team everyweek

You can do it other ways, but that's the quickest (without breaking rules) and most easily sustainable.

 

[SU2NASA]

Facilities are a pretty big deal especially to recruits.

Completely agree.

 

[ImperialOrange]

What we have now is the equivilent of Coach driving past Archbold Stadium at 60 mph at night to show recruits. Then came the Dome, then came recruits!

 

[dollarbill44]

I you make the NFL, you are well under the best 1% of your high school class. So, by your definition, those guys are elite recruits. they may not be elite NFL players (Hall of Famers) but they turned out to be elite recruits (better than top 1%). The funny part about that is, many on these boards judge good recruits based on their star ratings. But as you point out, those guys, who turned out very well were not highly rated recruits.

Don't confuse elite "recruits" with players that develop into top-level performers. To me, an "elite" recruit is someone who is a "can't miss" top D1A future starter. For example, take all of the D1 schollies distributed in a given year and take the top 1% of that number. Those are what I consider the "elite" recruits. There aren't that many of them in a given year. In contrast, there are numerous guys who develop into top-notch players by the time they leave school, but that doesn't mean they came in as elite recruits. SU has had very few truly elite players come in out of HS and I bet you will find that most of them came in when SU was already established as a legit top-25 program. The Tim Green's - guys who can go play at literally (and I mean that literally) any school but chose SU when SU was not good - are very few and far between. That's where my every 20 years statement came from.

This whole sub-thread started when I said we need to be building a solid pipeline of mid-level recruits (read 3 star types) with top level potential in order to win 8-9 games consistently and then start getting an increasing number of higher level recruits. I was countered by someone who said we need to get "elite" recruits first and foremost.

Your last sentence is about exactly the types of players that SU needs to be targeting right now on a regular basis and getting the most out of them.

 

[xc84]

We can disagree on what "elite" means but I think we agree on the recipe for success...and it does not necessarily include a team full of "five star" recruits.

 

[Eric]

There is basically nothing that can be done except for the university handing their business correctly and for the university and football program to handle all minutae appropriately. Our prestige is basically what it is and we have a very successful track record of consistency and great play through the years. It is all cyclical. SU can stay in the hunt and have a shot not as often as some of the larger more prestigous programs in other parts of the country but our stars can all allign at some points. we just need to stay modern, keep the karma up, keep our eyes on the dome as it ages, and not be stubborn and help nurture changes that will help the program and keep people who are the heartbeat of SU football like Dan Connely around etc and keep the momentum and intellectual capital going. Looking forward to seeing P back on the hill as an oracle in the not so distant.

 

[SU2NASA]

We can disagree on what "elite" means but I think we agree on the recipe for success...and it does not necessarily include a team full of "five star" recruits.

 

[SoBristol]

Which one of those guys was "elite" coming out of HS? 3 star and 4 star recruits are NOT elite. 5 stars are elite. Taj Smith was not a HS recruit for SU. Mike Williams only got noticed by SU because of Johnny Flynn. Delone Carter was Mr. Ohio, but it isn't like we beat out LSU, Bama, Florida, USC for him.

Maybe there is a misconception out there about what is "elite". In the world of athletics, "elite" means the top 1%-2% of performers. HOF players are elite. HS athletes that can name which school they want to play for are elite.

Well, you seem to be arguing in circles. These guys were good enough to have immediate impact -- and GROB brought them in. So, is there a reason to believe the world has changed and Marrone can't bring in offensive talent to make SU relevant on offense? He hasn't done it yet, but the fact is it was done recently by a guy who wasn't the luckiest guy in the world. Keep in mind that GROB was a West Coast guy -- no SU roots, no Eastern recruiting networks, not planning all his life to be the coach at SU. But he brought in a JUCO WR (Taj Smith) who was immediately the best WR on the team. He landed Mike Williams from Buffalo (who cares how he got the lead; he was a dynamic two sport athlete with elite size and quickness and GROB convinced him to come here) and Mike was good enough to be a star receiver. Who cares who we beat out for Carter -- he was the quality of RB that SU needed then and needs now. If we were getting 600 yards from a frosh RB, backing up Bailey, we would be two wins ahead of where we stand now. To recap, GROB (with no roots) pulled in offensive talent from Ohio, Buffalo, Syracuse (Sales), Rochester (Collier), and downstate, as well as a notable example from the JUCO ranks. Did not need better facilities; did not matter that SU was in something of a tailspin; he went after offensive talent and proved it can be done. In contrast, Marrone has brought in linemen from the JUCO ranks (Hay, Tiller, Goggins, Ball, Fisher, Diabate) and RBs who didn't make it here (Timbers, Smallwood). Why no skill guys?
Now, don't get me wrong. GROB's recruiting wasn't much good overall and he can't touch Marrone as a coach. I am only talking about offensive skill guys -- the notable area where Marrone has yet to make his mark. And that is the difference between where we are this year (mediocre offense) and where we might hope to be (relevant).

 

[Oakland]

We are a few days removed from last weeks game and have a bye this week so who about something not game related. What are three things that need to happen for Syracuse to be elite team again? Could be anything, coaching changes, facilities, or recruiting, what ever. So what does everyone think the three main things that could make this program elite are?

Only two things are needed:

1) Cheat
2) Don't get caught

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Realistically... we need a dual threat beast at QB... and hopefully that is coming. Look at our games and just think what might have been with a couple downfield passes completed, and a few 30+ yard runs by the QB throughout the year. This is not a bash at Nassib, perhaps a little bit of a bash on the staff for it's playcalling, but for the most part it comes down to the chicken and the egg. Ryan could lead a top-25 club with a better cast around him, but we won't get that kind of cast until we get to the top-25. So, I believe we have no choice but to sacrifice some dependability at the position in favor of big-play ability, at least until we can get the core of players that would allow a classic dropback passer to successfully operate.

 

[SaintTristan]

Ten easy steps. In this order.

1. New Head Coach. Join ACC. Play games on Thurs night as much as possible.
2. SU invests in player facilities that are unmatched on the east coast. Total wow factor that will make recruits who take visits commit on the spot.
2. New Head Coach improves recruiting.
3. Team wins.
4. SU increases festivities on game day. Basically turns entire area around dome into fan friendly zone - one big party. Makes big investment. Does things that no other school is doing. Assistant AD Doug Marrone creates rules for fan friendly zone.
5. Fans return
6. Creates new fans
7. Rutgers, UCONN and BC are decimated by our initiative.
8. We become PSU's rival for the NE and Mid Atlantic.
9. We become the highlighted program in the NE for either Reebok, Adidas, Nike, etc (I am assuming under armour will stick with MD). Have fun with uniforms for premium OOC games.
10. OOC schedule is improved to include at least one traditional national power each yr. No more playing D1A schools.

We become elite.

Its very easy.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Ten easy steps. In this order.

1. New Head Coach. Join ACC. Play games on Thurs night as much as possible.
2. SU invests in player facilities that are unmatched on the east coast. Total wow factor that will make recruits who take visits commit on the spot.
2. New Head Coach improves recruiting.
3. Team wins.
4. SU increases festivities on game day. Basically turns entire area around dome into fan friendly zone - one big party. Makes big investment. Does things that no other school is doing. Assistant AD Doug Marrone creates rules for fan friendly zone.
5. Fans return
6. Creates new fans
7. Rutgers, UCONN and BC are decimated by our initiative.
8. We become PSU's rival for the NE and Mid Atlantic.
9. We become the highlighted program in the NE for either Reebok, Adidas, Nike, etc (I am assuming under armour will stick with MD). Have fun with uniforms for premium OOC games.
10. OOC schedule is improved to include at least one traditional national power each yr. No more playing D1A schools.

We become elite.

Its very easy.

I'm with you on the offensive coordinator... but why does everyone just assume that a new coach will recruit better... we are in a position to land a couple 4-stars and at least one 3 star should be a four (brantley), and Broyld prob would be worthy too if he was just listed at athlete. The recuiting has improved, and as far as I know has been done the right way... so I think that is hardly a definite.

 

[TinyManInside]

We're so far from being elite that it seems crazy to ask the question. Sort of like a 6 year old asking "What will it take for me to run the Marine Corps marathon?"

 

[CUSEBB1]

I think 80% of Cny follows SU sports.I just don't think they go to the games.I think out of 75 guys that i work with i am the only one that goes to the games.Yet everyone of them is talking about the games the next day.I feel that people think its a big hassle going to games.This is where a new Dome would come in handy surrounded by parking lots and easy access from the highways.I do think people want to go.I am sure the thought of the team losing again and again enters their mind so they figure why waste time and money to go watch the team lose.

 

[SWC75]

Chicken vs. Egg. The top teams in the cotunry are the best attended. Did the high-quality football come first and create interest or does the large and loyal fan base supply endless money and enthiusioasm and cause the best coaches and players to want to be there. Probalby both. I've always said we have the basketball program the fan base deserves and the same with the football program.

I wonder if it would be different if we had an innovative, high-powered offesne. I look at high school playoff games and see offesnes that look more interesting that ours. Would you go to the Dome to see Houston?

 

[SWC75]

We're so far from being elite that it seems crazy to ask the question. Sort of like a 6 year old asking "What will it take for me to run the Marine Corps marathon?"

We were never "elite" in the sense of being a top 10 program and regualr national championshoip contneder. I think our ceiling is a top 25 program with the potenital to have a "dream season" that could put us in the BCS or even the title game, Like Happened to West Virginia in 1988, (even if it wasn't the BCS) and Virginia Tech in 1999. (Our 1987 team was a good as those two but Miami and Oklahoma both went undefeated that year.) We basically had that from 1987-2001 but I would have like fewer What losses and national TV blow-outs.