What people calling for Carney are really saying

[OttoinGrotto]

Quick recap of how we arrived where we are today: Collins transferred in, Collins was QB1 out of spring, we picked up Angeli, there was a QB competition (supposedly), Angeli won, Angeli got hurt, Collins has not played well in any game he's appeared in for us.

When people say they want to see Carney, what they're saying is we already know enough about Collins. They're saying there isn't any more upside there. They're saying the way he has played is as well as he can play at this level, at this time.

So when people ask why they want to see Carney, it's a combination of a) not having any faith that Collins plays better/can play better otherwise we would have seen it by now so there's little risk in b) seeing if Carney has anything because we just don't know. It's not ideal for him to play right now. But maybe he's a gamer. Maybe he has "it." Maybe a change sparks a dead offense.

I'm on board with the plan that if Carney doesn't start, he gets some reps with the 1s over the next two weeks and comes in at the first sign of trouble with Collins. I'm also in favor of the stealth move to get Carney ready to start but not announce it.

I think with Collins it's more likely it gets worse instead of better. Between the Gattis thing, player frustration on the field, Cook's uncle, etc. there are signs that the confidence just isn't there. Collins would have to basically go from where he is to nearly flawless to overcome that. I just can't see how that's likely. So let's give Carney a shot. And if he drowns out there, give Belin a shot. And if none of them have "it" we know we need to recruit QBs even harder.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I disagree about it not improving, we will continue to see some improvement (Fran said he told Rickie “it can’t get worse, right?”) Human development is not always consistent and/or predictable.

I’m more worried about the other side of the ball where the entire defense seems to be poorly coached in tackling and execution. Sure, we need points to win, but if we didn’t give up so many points maybe we could have a more balanced offense. Sure would help ANY QB we put back there.

 

[hoopsupstate]

These are the same people who were screaming for Collins in the UCONN game. Let the coaches coach. They know a lot more about their personnel than fans.

 

[XC Cuse]

These are the same people who were screaming for Collins in the UCONN game. Let the coaches coach. They know a lot more about their personnel than fans.

Nope, I was never asking for Angeli to be benched during UConn. This is different Angeli struggled for a half, Collins has shown nothing in 2 games.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I disagree about it not improving, we will continue to see some improvement (Fran said he told Rickie “it can’t get worse, right?”) Human development is not always consistent and/or predictable.

I’m more worried about the other side of the ball where the entire defense seems to be poorly coached in tackling and execution. Sure, we need points to win, but if we didn’t give up so many points maybe we could have a more balanced offense. Sure would help ANY QB we put back there.

Defense definitely remains an issue.

 

[CanadianSU]

These are the same people who were screaming for Collins in the UCONN game. Let the coaches coach. They know a lot more about their personnel than fans.

Lot of this was because we were told the qb contest was super close which upon watching Collins was total fabrication.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Lot of this was because we were told the qb contest was super close which upon watching Collins was total fabrication.

Gotta be true. Collins was here since January and participated in spring ball. Angeli gets here in May/June and beats him out. Had to be definitive. No matter how much we hate on Pena, he knew something. I also think our decision to run it in on the first drive and not have Collins throw any passes shows the lack of confidence in Collins by the coaching staff. Plus the onfield frustration with Collins by Mack and Gattis, not to mention Cook's uncle calling into a postgame radio show. The locker room is probably lost. This season is spinning out of control fast and may not be salvagable. 3-9 is a real possibility.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One other thing - having "it" doesn't mean the QB has to look like they're future all-ACC or anything. It means they look competent. Jacobian Morgan had "it," for example. It's about command of the position. That's why I think it's so hard to watch Collins. We're four games in now and at no point watching him has it come across that he looks like the guys are looking to him to lead them. He seems like he's just one of the 11 lining up on offense.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Quick recap of how we arrived where we are today: Collins transferred in, Collins was QB1 out of spring, we picked up Angeli, there was a QB competition (supposedly), Angeli won, Angeli got hurt, Collins has not played well in any game he's appeared in for us.

When people say they want to see Carney, what they're saying is we already know enough about Collins. They're saying there isn't any more upside there. They're saying the way he has played is as well as he can play at this level, at this time.

So when people ask why they want to see Carney, it's a combination of a) not having any faith that Collins plays better/can play better otherwise we would have seen it by now so there's little risk in b) seeing if Carney has anything because we just don't know. It's not ideal for him to play right now. But maybe he's a gamer. Maybe he has "it." Maybe a change sparks a dead offense.

I'm on board with the plan that if Carney doesn't start, he gets some reps with the 1s over the next two weeks and comes in at the first sign of trouble with Collins. I'm also in favor of the stealth move to get Carney ready to start but not announce it.

I think with Collins it's more likely it gets worse instead of better. Between the Gattis thing, player frustration on the field, Cook's uncle, etc. there are signs that the confidence just isn't there. Collins would have to basically go from where he is to nearly flawless to overcome that. I just can't see how that's likely. So let's give Carney a shot. And if he drowns out there, give Belin a shot. And if none of them have "it" we know we need to recruit QBs even harder.

You forgot Trebor Pena leaving

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You forgot Trebor Pena leaving

I mean, who could forget that?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Gotta be true. Collins was here since January and participated in spring ball. Angeli gets here in May/June and beats him out. Had to be definitive. No matter how much we hate on Pena, he knew something. I also think our decision to run it in on the first drive and not have Collins throw any passes shows the lack of confidence in Collins by the coaching staff. Plus the onfield frustration with Collins by Mack and Gattis, not to mention Cook's uncle calling into a postgame radio show. The locker room is probably lost. This season is spinning out of control fast and may not be salvagable. 3-9 is a real possibility.

Maybe it’s an Ethan Cole situation. A former hoops insider raved how great he was in practice ( he was good on the practices I went to), but he just couldn’t bring it to the games.

 

[Blanko97]

I disagree about it not improving, we will continue to see some improvement (Fran said he told Rickie “it can’t get worse, right?”) Human development is not always consistent and/or predictable.

I’m more worried about the other side of the ball where the entire defense seems to be poorly coached in tackling and execution. Sure, we need points to win, but if we didn’t give up so many points maybe we could have a more balanced offense. Sure would help ANY QB we put back there.

We know the defense was bad, we didn’t know the QB depth was Jim existent. Just makes me wonder how anyone could've watched Collin’s in practice and thought he was anywhere close to Angeli.

 

[javadoc]

Lot of this was because we were told the qb contest was super close which upon watching Collins was total fabrication.

I don’t think most people believed that no matter what Fran said.

 

[pacusewife]

Maybe it’s an Ethan Cole situation. A former hoops insider raved how great he was in practice ( he was good on the practices I went to), but he just couldn’t bring it to the games.

Kind of what I was thinking too

 

[Cuse On 3]

What did you guys think Fran was gonna do, say Rickie sucks? Lol

 

[phil77]

Look at the players body language it’s over for Collins his teammates don’t believe in him. They can say all the correct things after the game etc but their body language during the game tells the story. Fran has to make change for the team Collins has shown nothing in his time on the field that he either deserves the job or can get the job done.

 

[FloridaCuse]

What did you guys think Fran was gonna do, say Rickie sucks? Lol

No, but he didn't have to oversell it to boost Rickie's state of mind.

 

[Cuse On 3]

No, but he didn't have to oversell it to boost Rickie's state of mind.

It’s what good coaches do. Give confidence in their players.

 

[FloridaCuse]

It’s what good coaches do. Give confidence in their players.

I understand that but I thought he went overboard about it & in the process seemed to gaslight everyone else. Maybe his own players who probably knew the truth. It was almost like he over did it to convince everyone, including himself. Like as the late Roy Cohn said (maybe before your time) -- if you speak a lie enough times people will believe it's the truth.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Maybe it’s an Ethan Cole situation. A former hoops insider raved how great he was in practice ( he was good on the practices I went to), but he just couldn’t bring it to the games.

True, they are called practice players but when the bright lights are on, they choke.

 

[swish7]

Quick recap of how we arrived where we are today: Collins transferred in, Collins was QB1 out of spring, we picked up Angeli, there was a QB competition (supposedly), Angeli won, Angeli got hurt, Collins has not played well in any game he's appeared in for us.

When people say they want to see Carney, what they're saying is we already know enough about Collins. They're saying there isn't any more upside there. They're saying the way he has played is as well as he can play at this level, at this time.

So when people ask why they want to see Carney, it's a combination of a) not having any faith that Collins plays better/can play better otherwise we would have seen it by now so there's little risk in b) seeing if Carney has anything because we just don't know. It's not ideal for him to play right now. But maybe he's a gamer. Maybe he has "it." Maybe a change sparks a dead offense.

I'm on board with the plan that if Carney doesn't start, he gets some reps with the 1s over the next two weeks and comes in at the first sign of trouble with Collins. I'm also in favor of the stealth move to get Carney ready to start but not announce it.

I think with Collins it's more likely it gets worse instead of better. Between the Gattis thing, player frustration on the field, Cook's uncle, etc. there are signs that the confidence just isn't there. Collins would have to basically go from where he is to nearly flawless to overcome that. I just can't see how that's likely. So let's give Carney a shot. And if he drowns out there, give Belin a shot. And if none of them have "it" we know we need to recruit QBs even harder.

Great thread starter.

People want something to be hopeful about. Collins throwing 10 pickable balls & 10 coffin throws a game isn't it.

Nixon needs to figure out what offense works with THIS PERSONELLE & run it.

There is a chance Collins has some kind of turnaround, but even so, I want some hope that coach has a plan C. & is not stubborn. I'm worried he's gonna be a meatball about it & stick w Collins til the bitter end.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Great thread starter.

People want something to be hopeful about. Collins throwing 10 pickable balls & 10 coffin throws a game isn't it.

Nixon needs to figure out what offense works with THIS PERSONELLE & run it.

There is a chance Collins has some kind of turnaround, but even so, I want some hope that coach has a plan C. & is not stubborn. I'm worried he's gonna be a meatball about it & stick w Collins til the bitter end.

Maybe we can go two back sets, and run "option" since it is kinda in our play book. We have the inside zone runs and the swing passes to the RBs. RPO that stuff all day since it is safe.

BTW where are the RB passes this year?

 

[OttosShoes]

It’s what good coaches do. Give confidence in their players.

It's not that simple. There's a player's confidence, and there's a player's skill. Sometimes they're matched, and that's great.

Sometimes their skill exceeds their confidence, and they play too timid. In that case, yes, the coach needs to give the player more confidence.

Other times the player's confidence exceeds their skill, and they write checks they can't cash. In that case you have to keep them grounded. Sometimes that's a rational discussion or an example. Sometimes it's Gattis on the sidelines.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Great thread starter.

People want something to be hopeful about. Collins throwing 10 pickable balls & 10 coffin throws a game isn't it.

Nixon needs to figure out what offense works with THIS PERSONELLE & run it.

There is a chance Collins has some kind of turnaround, but even so, I want some hope that coach has a plan C. & is not stubborn. I'm worried he's gonna be a meatball about it & stick w Collins til the bitter end.

What's a coffin throw?

 

[Scooch]

1) When people say that it can’t get any worse… nonsense, it can ALWAYS get worse. It’s entirely possible that Carney is completely incapable of running an offense against a P4 defense.

2) When people say that if you bench Collins then you can’t bring him back to play… nonsense, this sort of thing happens all the time. Sometimes it’s actually helpful for a guy to sit and watch and relax. That approach worked with Troy Nunes.

3) I’m really not sure it matters all that much in the grand scheme of this season. We likely have 2 winnable games left on the schedule, and we’ll win them with defense and a running game regardless of who’s under center.