What some haven’t been waiting for. LOL.

[richmondcuse03]

Assuming they are using tech to do most of the work like the they do for NFL and Soccer. Thus it's likely analysts are reviewing the analytics that are created but not all the gameplay. Thus it's probably flawed to an extent but would be objective enough given its all collected the same. There is no way it's mostly done through a person watching games- qc of the data or a sampling sure. Events are noted by data points much like any other data collection tool.

Good point. you can automate a bit but thought they sold human analysis.

 

[Orangezoo]

Good point. you can automate a bit but thought they sold human analysis.

I'm sure they do for all the extras. Basic package is likely data driven with some qc, advanced takes the data and does deep dive analysis and advanced grading. You would need more than just analysts but also trained analysts with appropriate training and experience to know what they are looking at and looking for.

To turn around this stuff so quickly it has to be based off data collection which has come along ways.

 

[Scooch]

I'll try to find the tweet but someone did the math and there is just no way they have enough people to watch all these games to turn around a syracuse colgate game that fast. how many people do they have doing this stuff? this is a scam.

Hmmm. I never thought about it this way, but yeah, that’s a lot!

Rough math is that there were 160 plays yesterday. And these guys are grading all 22 players for each play. That’s over 3,500 events to grade.

They must have hundreds upon hundreds of people grading games to turn them around in 24 hours.

 

[Crusty]

One criticism I have heard is that the observer has to know each play to properly grade execution and they don't. FWIW

Travis Kelce makes stunning accusation about Pro Football Focus grades

The Kelce brothers are not big believers in Pro Football Focus.

www.google.com

 

[rrlbees]

One criticism I have heard is that the observer has to know each play to properly grade execution and they don't. FWIW

Travis Kelce makes stunning accusation about Pro Football Focus grades

The Kelce brothers are not big believers in Pro Football Focus.

www.google.com

No grading system is perfect. There’s been quotes saying positive things about it too. And like I said, every nfl team and 75% of the P5 use their services. As an FYI, the majority owner is Cris Collinsworth.

 

[syrBossHogg]

One criticism I have heard is that the observer has to know each play to properly grade execution and they don't. FWIW

Travis Kelce makes stunning accusation about Pro Football Focus grades

The Kelce brothers are not big believers in Pro Football Focus.

www.google.com

Yeah it misses some context, it’s basically measuring just pure production

 

[upperdeck]

it has it flaws.. and they do a much better job of NFL vs college just because the film is better.. many college games they dont even get an all 22 they just get tv film to review..

And in talking with coaches they dont know the play so they have to sometimes guess on how well the player did. For example if the D is told to hold an edge and the Offense by design blocks it well is that a failure of the player or the play call?

And the same on offense, a player can run a play that is wide open on offense and be the totally wrong play they dont know.

On some plays the oline is trying to beat a guy, on some they might be trying to turn a guy, and some maybe they are just supposed to occupy a guy.

Now maybe they have the time to review the play structure and figure it out, but even so you would think it would take multiple viewings of every play to really decide how a player did 90x3x11 so 3000 plays on offense for just our game on offense.. Thats a ton of work and to get it done within hrs and drive it to Bees house thats hard to do.. if you do one play a minute per player 90x11 is 1000 plays / 60 is 16 hrs..

They make money doing it so someones happy with the work.

 

[Crusty]

There is a great story of Jerry Kramer making a great intuitive play that won a game and Lombardi gave him a failing grade for the play because he didn't follow the play design.

 

[GoSU96]

100’s. And they do a lot more than just grades. Every NFL team subscribes to their premium package.

There are up to 16 nfl games and they are spread out

College 4x

 

[Ozcuse]

I'll try to find the tweet but someone did the math and there is just no way they have enough people to watch all these games to turn around a syracuse colgate game that fast. how many people do they have doing this stuff? this is a scam.

AI

 

[JustPherU]

A buddy of mine son has kicked around the league for a few years on practice squads mostly as a offensive lineman.I asked him the other day how his son was doing and he said the PFF grade he got in the last pre season game was his best ever, but then told me it was the worst game he ever saw him play.

 

[rrlbees]

it has it flaws.. and they do a much better job of NFL vs college just because the film is better.. many college games they dont even get an all 22 they just get tv film to review..

And in talking with coaches they dont know the play so they have to sometimes guess on how well the player did. For example if the D is told to hold an edge and the Offense by design blocks it well is that a failure of the player or the play call?

And the same on offense, a player can run a play that is wide open on offense and be the totally wrong play they dont know.

On some plays the oline is trying to beat a guy, on some they might be trying to turn a guy, and some maybe they are just supposed to occupy a guy.

Now maybe they have the time to review the play structure and figure it out, but even so you would think it would take multiple viewings of every play to really decide how a player did 90x3x11 so 3000 plays on offense for just our game on offense.. Thats a ton of work and to get it done within hrs and drive it to Bees house thats hard to do.. if you do one play a minute per player 90x11 is 1000 plays / 60 is 16 hrs..

They make money doing it so someones happy with the work.

You and I had the same exact discussion a year ago. If you do a search you’ll find how they get film.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm curious if Shrader doesn't step into the pocket well enough at times thus making it look worse than it actually is?

 

[Scooch]

I’m sure this grading system has a lot of positives. And it’s useful data as a component, among many, in judging someone’s performance.

Obviously, it shouldn’t be used as a conclusive dataset, or as a discussion-ender.

 

[Orangezoo]

All you need to know about how PFF FC grades are calculated

How PFF is aiming to change the game in football analytics

www.pff.com

Naturally they aren't sharing their secret sauce but this tells me the model is non manual data collection paired with manual data collection (guessing majority is non manual but no idea the pct breakdown).

Then you move everything to the grading phase for those with at least some level of training. They say rigorous but that's what any company would say when marketing analysis.

 

[upperdeck]

You and I had the same exact discussion a year ago. If you do a search you’ll find how they get film.

i know.. They dont actually get film from all the games and we dont know which ones they do. They talk about it that some games are much harder to grade than others.

 

[UpstateSM]

A few other tidbits.

Our highest graded overall offensive player was Shrader.

Our highest graded overall defensive player was Clark.

Our highest graded WR for blocking was Hatcher which I noticed a few times during the game making great blocks.

Our highest graded DB in coverage was Wilson.

Slightly off-topic but I, and everyone around me, couldn't believe that Clark went back in the game after he couldn't stand up straight. I am interested how it looks on my re-watch compared to from the third deck with many beers in me.

 

[orangepassion]

Everyone's favorite whipping boy (including me) Hoeh by far our highest rated OL.

 

[GoSU96]

Everyone's favorite whipping boy (including me) Hoeh by far our highest rated OL.

He had like 8 snaps

 

[rrlbees]

He had like 8 snaps

30 to be exact. I thought he looked pretty darn good. Far better than last year at FB. I was happy for him.

 

[upperdeck]

i think not having to block quicker guys in space is a help

 

[Scooch]

Slightly off-topic but I, and everyone around me, couldn't believe that Clark went back in the game after he couldn't stand up straight. I am interested how it looks on my re-watch compared to from the third deck with many beers in me.

I thought for sure he was concussed.

Apparently not.

 

[JoeSU]

PFF blocking grades.

Without going into a lot of detail the pass blocking overall as an OL graded higher than the run blocking.

Run blocking rank (starters only)

Bleich
Bradford
Reed
Wohlabaugh
Cruz

Pass blocking

Bradford
Bleich
Wohlabaugh
Cruz
Reed

Bradford has been a pleasant surprise. Maybe he is benefitting from better coaching than in JC. I hope he continues to play well against larger/more talented DL.

 

[GoSU96]

I thought for sure he was concussed.

Apparently not.

I thought his arm went dead, funny bone,