What stinks the most

[orangepassion]

My reply:
1) He is not a known quantity as a HC

Right now, who out there is? Then ask the question, who out there is that SU can possibly get? Then ask the question, who out there is, that SU can possibly get and afford? Then ask the question, who out there is, that SU can possibly get and afford that won't blow up EVERYTHING that has been built?

Scott Shafer is more known than any candidate that we could interview. Make the argument against it, please. Please don't start spouting fantasy land coaching hires.

2) Consequences with recruits and coaches? Have you been following this the last few days? We have already lost recruits and assistants and will probably lose more-that was the point of my original post. -

Besides Zach Allen, who have we lost? Recruits looking around for options, believe it or not, happens whether it gets reported or not and happens by almost every recruit right up until signing day. See Marrone's last recruiting class where they were being contacted and pushed even up until signing day last year.

3) It could be argued that not doing a real search is a bigger gamble-Who knows who we could have gotten? Maybe a proven head Coach.

Like Who? I haven't heard about a good proven coach being available at this time of year that wasn't fired or named Gruden or Cowher that SU could get or afford. We don't have a track record of luring current head coaches away from other schools and paying them more.

You said it could be argued - Please make the argument on this last one. Everything in your argument would be based on possibles and supposition.

I already covered the 1st 2, but for your comment on #3 the answer would be the numerous assistants who were elevated who didn't do well in the top spot. Granted, there are some who have done well and I hope Shafer will fall into that category, but really don't know. There's something to be said for a proven Head Coach, even a proven lower level one. Obviously, no rule is absolute as there have been success and failures in both categories, but I'd take my chances on a proven Head Coach. Bruce Feldman is pretty hooked up and mentioned Al Golden originally. Maybe he was interested, maybe he wasn't. You don't know and neither do I. You don't know who's available until you ask (See Cincy-Tuberville). All I know is everything seemed pretty quick. having said that, I am definitely rooting for Shafer and liked him as a DC.

 

[Ozcuse]

I can do this from my couch, As did the Good Doctor I am sure.

Mark Whipple - All HC experience was at FCS level or Ivy league. All other coaching experience was at the position coach level except 1 year as OC at Miami where he was fired. Next stop Cleveland Browns as a...wait for it, Position Coach. No Thanks.

Ralph Friedgen - 2001-2003 he succeeded with someone else's talent, then the 4th year when his guys see the field the go in the toilet. After his 1st 3 years, his record is 44-42. Great hire, again No Thanks.

Mark Mangino - Record at Kansas 50-48, along with all the investigations he needs a record like Saban's to sell me or...No Thanks.

Mike Malarkey - LOL, really. Can't bellieve you would even suggest it. No College coaching experience whatsoever. No recruiting ties. Pro head coaching record 16-32, No thanks.

George O'Leary - Coached my High School. Lied on his resume. College total HC record 112 -88 but there is no way in hell that TGD hires this guy.

Mike Martz - Not Happening. Currently works as a FOX sports NFL analyst and makes more than Marrone did as HC at Syracuse. As of 18 hours ago is interviewing for the HC gig for the Oakland Raiders. He is alos an arrogant jerk that would think the HC job at SU is beneath him.

Skip Holtz (laugh if you want, still has more credentials and connections than Shafer)- He wan't interested in the job the first time. After what happened at USF, why would you even put him on a list to make a point??

Should I shred the remaining 3 or do you get my point?

Bobby Wilder
Josh McDaniels
Bill Blankenship

Also - None of these candidates would make the splash or impact with the boosters and fans which if you were going outside of the current staff would have to be made. If I was TGD, I wouldn't hitch my wagon to any of these guys.

I might consider Bob Diaco(ND) or mark Helfrich (Oregon) but neither of them are going anywhere for a while. These names might have enough cache to make the boosters, administration, and fans happy.

Talking out of both sides of my mouth?? There is not one person in college football that doesn't know that Scott Shafer at Michigan for the one year was the ONE mistake of his career. There is also not one person anywhere that doesn't know he got shafted by Rich Rod and was used as a scapegoat.

Even Michigan fans know he got screwed.

Shafer's HC record is 0-0. His HC experience is worse than every name i posted. You asked for coaches we could reasonably talk to that had more experience as a HC. My point stands.

I really really hope that Shafer succeeds as the decision has been made and now the Program has to live with it. But if there is time being taken now to identify an OC, why couldn't they have also taken the time to identify all HC candidates too?

 

[CuseOnly]

Shafer's HC record is 0-0. His HC experience is worse than every name i posted. You asked for coaches we could reasonably talk to that had more experience as a HC. My point stands.

I really really hope that Shafer succeeds as the decision has been made and now the Program has to live with it. But if there is time being taken now to identify an OC, why couldn't they have also taken the time to identify all HC candidates too?

Your point does not stand. None of these coaches are Good or Proven , experienced yes but why would I want an experienced .500 coach? You are saying they should have done interviews to find that out or just wasted time figuring out what I found out from Wikipedia ?

You clearly just spouted names of coaches that you knew nothing about and didn't read what I wrote about each coach.

TGD would be lambasted for hiring any of them by just about everyone. Including the folks on this board.

 

[Ozcuse]

Your point does not stand. None of these coaches are Good or Proven , experienced yes but why would I want an experienced .500 coach? You are saying they should have done interviews to find that out or just wasted time figuring out what I found out from Wikipedia ?

You clearly just spouted names of coaches that you knew nothing about and didn't read what I wrote about each coach.

TGD would be lambasted for hiring any of them by just about everyone. Including the folks on this board.

Use Wikipedia and look up Doug Marrone's record as a HC.

:rolling:

 

[CuseOnly]

Use Wikipedia and look up Doug Marrone's record as a HC.

:rolling:

You, OttoinGrotto and I along with everybody else knows that Marrone pulled this program out of being a raging toxic dumpster fire to 25-25. Pretty respectable considering that most of the coaches above didn't have to deal with Greg Robinson before their tenure.

 

[OrangePA]

1- From the NE doesn't qualify him for anything.
2-He was a graduate assistant at SU for 2 years back in 86-87. How could he possibly know the culture there now.
3-Who regarded him as a great recruiter, Coach P? You mean he was the recruiter under coach P for 3 years when our talent was declining. - great.
4-Yes, as a position coach.
5-I think career position coaches make great head coaches.
6-He was made interim HC for 1 game which the team got smashed in.
7-This means very little to anyone. Without Saban, that program goes back into the cellar like it was the previous 10 years before he arrived.
8-I really want the job as head of Microsoft, doesn't mean I am qualified or have any shot.

This is brilliant analysis.

Comparing your ability to take the CEO of Microsoft position from Steve Balmer to the Jeff Stoutland's access to the SU HC position is of course silly.

You have to do better than that when trying to analogize.

A few other things.

Having a familiarity with the NE and NE HS coaches is crucial in this business. If you don't understand that you're not watching carefully enough.

Second, Stoutland was also a TE/OL coach for the Orange in the late 1990s meaning that he he spent a lot of time on the Hill - he knows the peculiarities of running a program at Syracuse.

Because of his effectiveness with SU he was recruited to coach at Michigan State and thereafter at Miami and of course Alabama. That Nick Saban hired him at Alabama has to say a lot about the guy.

The notion therefore that his football coaching background is not sufficient to qualify him to lead an ACC team seems a bit misguided to me.

The no HC experience issue is odd in this instance when one considers that Marrone was never a HC before he was hired by Syracuse University.

As we have discussed in the past, Andy Reid was never a coordinator before he became the Eagles HC and Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry had no HC experience before they got their jobs. The same holds true for Jim Boeheim and Bob Knight. So that discussion is really a waste of time.

I think you missed the point abut his assignment to the interim HC position at Miami. The result of the game was what it was. The point is that he was viewed as being the guy on the staff most qualified to take over for Randy Shannon - he obviously impressed somebody at Miami to have been asked to so serve.

 

[GoSU96]

Because he is a descends from the P tree.

I would have no problem with Stoutland came in as OL/OC. Guy has been an excellent recruiter, very strong in NJ and NY. Can't get a better rep for developing OL than what he did at Bama.

 

[GoSU96]

Very simple-Possibly get a better, maybe even more established Head Coach.

From where?

 

[orangepassion]

I really really hope that Shafer succeeds as the decision has been made and now the Program has to live with it. But if there is time being taken now to identify an OC, why couldn't they have also taken the time to identify all HC candidates too?

This is an excellent point-"Move quickly, but don't hurry". Wasn't that what Shafer quoted from John Wooden?

 

[CuseOnly]

This is brilliant analysis.

Comparing your ability to take the CEO of Microsoft position from Steve Balmer to the Jeff Stoutland's access to the SU HC position is of course silly.

You have to do better than that when trying to analogize.

A few other things.

Having a familiarity with the NE and NE HS coaches is crucial in this business. If you don't understand that you're not watching carefully enough.

Second, Stoutland was also a TE/OL coach for the Orange in the late 1990s meaning that he he spent a lot of time on the Hill - he knows the peculiarities of running a program at Syracuse.

Because of his effectiveness with SU he was recruited to coach at Michigan State and thereafter at Miami and of course Alabama. That Nick Saban hired him at Alabama has to say a lot about the guy.

The notion therefore that his football coaching background is not sufficient to qualify him to lead an ACC team seems a bit misguided to me.

The no HC experience issue is odd in this instance when one considers that Marrone was never a HC before he was hired by Syracuse University.

As we have discussed in the past, Andy Reid was never a coordinator before he became the Eagles HC and Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry had no HC experience before they got their jobs. The same holds true for Jim Boeheim and Bob Knight. So that discussion is really a waste of time.

I think you missed the point abut his assignment to the interim HC position at Miami. The result of the game was what it was. The point is that he was viewed as being the guy on the staff most qualified to take over for Randy Shannon - he obviously impressed somebody at Miami to have been asked to so serve.

The point here is 36 years of coaching and not one person on any staff he has been a part of even offered him a coordinator position much less a HC gig.

Let Saban give him the experience and tap him as OC if he thinks so highly of him.

 

[OrangePA]

The point here is 36 years of coaching and not one person on any staff he has been a part of even offered him a coordinator position much less a HC gig.

Let Saban give him the experience and tap him as OC if he thinks so highly of him.

Again, brilliant analysis.

I'm sorry that's too flippant.

Try this. Nobody offered Andy Reid a coordinator position before he became HC in Philly.

I mean this kind of analysis is really scratch the surface stuff.

Unless you have inside knowledge none of us knows exactly what he has been offered over the years. We do know that he has worked for some big time programs.

And I think we can assume that Nick Saban does not tolerate mediocrity on his staff.

I think we can also safely assume that he makes decent money as the Bama OL coach.

So, it might not be worth it to him to take on the "hallowed" position of OC at a school in the BE or ACC or MAC.

I don't know the details. But from everything I do know he is very well-thought of and highly competent.

 

[Ozcuse]

Again, brilliant analysis.

I'm sorry that's too flippant.

Try this. Nobody offered Andy Reid a coordinator position before he became HC in Philly.

I mean this kind of analysis is really scratch the surface stuff.

Unless you have inside knowledge none of us knows exactly what he has been offered over the years. We do know that he has worked for some big time programs.

And I think we can assume that Nick Saban does not tolerate mediocrity on his staff.

I think we can also safely assume that he makes decent money as the Bama OL coach.

So, it might not be worth it to him to take on the "hallowed" position of OC at a school in the BE or ACC or MAC.

I don't know the details. But from everything I do know he is very well-thought of and highly competent.

Hey OPA, don't bother. He has Wikipedia and he's not afraid to use it!

 

[CuseOnly]

Andy Reid is a very bad example to prove your point.

He went from Grad assistant in 81 to HC in Philly in 18 years and he came from being the QB's coach in Green Bay coaching Brett Favre. I am pretty sure he is considered by many to be an unusually brilliant offensive mind.

It took the man we are speaking of 36 years to work his way to be the OL coach at Alabama. Just a slightly different trajectory.

I agree that Saban most likely does not tolerate mediocrity on his staff either. I would also assume that he wouldn't promote someone to a position they weren't qualified for. I also would assume that he would promote somebody that had what it took for those elevated positions. And if that position weren't open would recommend said coach for another job to further his career, like most coaches would and not hold them back.

Kind of like Sean Payton and Bill Parcells endorsed Marrone for the Bills job. Same with Marrone, Harbaugh and others did for Shafer.

I don't have any inside knowledge but if he was offered more high profile jobs, OC, HC, etc. and turned them down over 36 years. The fact is that he hasn't taken one. Maybe he wasn't offered.

Bama OL coach money is probably excellent so we agree there but not going for an higher position would most likely stop his career at the level he is at. Kind of like being a sales guy and getting offers for management positions over and over and turning them down. Pretty soon you don't get offers any more. Not a good move.

No it's OK to be flippant, especially when your argument has tons of holes in it.

I guess you will be brilliant next time.

 

[690West]

Sutter's mens bathroom circa '92

 

[OrangePA]

Hey OPA, don't bother. He has Wikipedia and he's not afraid to use it!

Thank you.

I needed that.

 

[CuseOnly]

Thank you.

I needed that.

funny