What we took for granted about JB.

[swish7]

Love you Swish, but I think this is a bad take.

Both deserved firing.

The replacements were horrific in both cases.

But that’s a completely different issue.

I get it. My point is, we gained nothing with those hires & lost something better with those fires.

 

[Archbold44]

Whether you like the zone or hated it, JB was able to recruit a handful of guys to play it and fill in top recruits around them. Regardless of whether players shoot better today or not, the reality is that shooters will almost always regress to the mean. If they are cold in the first half, we build our lead. If they are hot in the first half, we make our run in the second half when they get overconfident.

Edit: hit save too soon. The benefit to having a system is that you can fit the pieces. At least you know what you are looking for. A certain type of PG... a certain type of SG... a certain type of SF and PF... and a certain type of C... but always willing to bend for a superstar at a position. Red has a better team this year, but it seems like the pieces do not fit anything in particular. Sure, peak Virginia and peak Villanova and peak UConn and most Duke teams gave us fits. Those teams were at their peak for a reason. And we usually were competitive. So sad how far we have fallen. From 34k fans in the Dome to nearly empty upper deck. Sad times. If the next coach has everyone shooting free throws under-handed, but we win games... who cares? Zone? Who cares? M2M? Who cares?

 

[Briancuse]

. What about Pitino?

Pitino isnt leaving his vitamin water gravy train or winged foot, st johns will be his last job.

 

[IthacaMatt]

JB never lost the locker room. It was always HIS locker room. You either toed the line or you sat in the doghouse. Another part of his genius was that he understood that you couldn’t motivate every player the same way. He coached each player the way they needed to be coached.

Great point. Of course, always winning helps.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We didn’t lose because teams three’d us to death. We lost because we stopped landing recruits that fit the defense.

JB’s zone and offense depended on dynamic Forwards with the athleticism and size to play the zone well, and SFs who could flat out get buckets (true SFs, not hybrids). We stopped getting those guys. We ended up with one dimensional guys or guys lacking athleticism or size and just making do.

The zone can defend threes. You can play zone against a team with 4 shooters and win without a Herculean effort.

I think the zone is a scapegoat. The NBA has adopted zone more at a time when 3-point shooters are more prevalent than ever. You have to have the guys, though. We don’t have the guys.

The thing is, though, that more and more players could not just make a 21 foot shot, but they can now make a 25 foot shot.

That made the zone spread out even more. He already moved the forwards up to the foul line, so we had 4 guys guarding the line, compared to usually 3 shooters.

But the openings in the middle became bigger and bigger,
Centers contesting corner threes became impractical.

And corner threes suddenly became the ones that people made the most, when in the early days, it was more elbow threes or from the top of the key, where you had the backboard to give you depth on the shot.

I think that if JB had brought the forwards down a bit, where they could contest both the wing three, and the corner three, and we left the center in the lane to block shots and rebound, it would have worked better in the later days. My two cents.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yep - the same 6 foot flat gunner also went to the final 8 with Clemson. Did Richmond ever make a final 8? By all accounts Kadary was the next coming of Magic Johnson. How isn’t he playing in the NBA? Maybe Autrys career started and ended when he ran off Girard and took in Starling.

Some of you feel Starling is Red's "designated star"- and maybe he is. But I think the star is Donnie, and I think Starling clearly recognizes that.
You all disagree and think that he shoots too much.

He has had 3 or more assists in 9 of our 21 games, which is pretty decent.
I really don't think he's a ball hog.
Anthony stops the ball waaay more than JJ does.

And in fact, for those who ask why Fennell got zero run, well, maybe if he had a rich dad, we'd have played him 10-15 minutes a game, too.

I don't think Fennell is noticeably worse than Anthony is. In fact I'm almost certain he's a better dribbler.

 

[Archbold44]

The thing is, though, that more and more players could make not just a 21 foot shot, but a 25 foot shot.

That made the zone spread out even more. He already moved the forwards up to the foul line, so we had 4 guys guarding the line, compared to usually 3 shooters.

But the openings in the middle became bigger and bigger,
Centers contesting corner threes became impractical.

And corner threes suddenly became the ones that people made the most, when in the early days, it was more elbow threes or from the top of the key, where you had the backboard to give you depth on the shot.

I think that if JB had brought the forwards down a bit, where they could contest both the wing three, and the corner three, and we left the center in the lane to block shots and rebound, it would have worked better in the later days. My two cents.

You just need better athletes than what we have. I get SOME teams can shoot from 25 feet, but that is a lower percentage shot that 21 feet. It will even out. These are 18-22 year olds. JB dared them to beat him.
Plus, the average OOC foe was not ready to deal with it yet... I think that would be more the case in the NIL era, when players are just getting used to each other.

Not saying we should do it. I am just saying if you are going to do it, do it right. But do something elite.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Great point. Of course, always winning helps.

One championship. 40 years

 

[OrangeFoo]

I get it. My point is, we gained nothing with those hires & lost something better with those fires.

I gotta disagree here. History shows that the guy who takes over after the “guy” usually fails in s big way. If we had kept JB we would have probably have had slightly better results, but I doubt we would have been dancing. I also don’t think we would have Alex Kline to pound the portal or build the NIL infra because, remember, JB basically stopped trying in recruiting.

So if we had kept JB we would be in year three of continued frustration, limited NIL investment and looking forward to three years of Autry.

Firing JB accomplished one big thing. It started the three years clock on his successor. We had to do it.

 

[Cusefan95]

I gotta disagree here. History shows that the guy who takes over after the “guy” usually fails in s big way. If we had kept JB we would have probably have had slightly better results, but I doubt we would have been dancing. I also don’t think we would have Alex Kline to pound the portal or build the NIL infra because, remember, JB basically stopped trying in recruiting.

So if we had kept JB we would be in year three of continued frustration, limited NIL investment and looking forward to three years of Autry.

Firing JB accomplished one big thing. It started the three years clock on his successor. We had to do it.

Agree. The fact that both processes to replace coaches were screwed up train wrecks doesn’t change the fact changes needed to be made. JB hit the ceiling in 2021, sneaking into the tourney was as good as it was going to be - and college sports changed so much since 2021 that it’s unlikely he’d have even gotten close to that.

I slightly disagree in that I think the only positive if JB was allowed to completely run the program off a cliff over the last three years is he would have burned through more of his political capital in the process. We could have avoided the internal pressure to “keep it within the family” and had a legitimate national search. We’d still be trying to recruit kids now who think Syracuse is a program that used to be good and there would be a massive rebuilding process ahead, so we’d be in about the same spot as we are now.