What's with SU Athletics Marketing?

[Stern]

People just arent interested in Syracuse football anymore as they are basketball, the people at my company think I am crazy

Schedule the right way, 2 cream puffs, create the buzz with a good start not some and mirrors. If Syracuse started with a 61-0 win versus Wagner and then a 42 -13 win versus Tulane things would feel and look a hell of a lot better.

It's all in the scheduling, as far as the casual fan base is concerned the season was over in Evanston, beating PSU would have been nice too! SU would have t0 beat Clemson and get to say 4-2 or 5-2 to create any type of buzz and those odds aren't 2:1

This right here is 100% spot on! There are no brownie points for playing tough teams out of conference. I don't get the fascination with it. If we were good, fine. But we aren't and haven't been for many years. For 10 years we have been a pretty bad football program for the most part, its time we schedule cupcake city all the way. Especially now that we are in the ACC and will get FSU and Clemson every year no matter what. The goal is to make sure we are halfway to a bowl after September. So worst case scenario is we only need 3 conference wins to get a bowl and the extra practices that come with it each year. That's how you build up a bad program.

When we open our season vs 2 pretty good Big 10 teams and go 0-2...most of your casual fans have checked out by Sep 15th and say "Same ole SU football." Winning fills up the dome...and it doesn't matter who you are winning against!! SU could schedule 3 cream-puffs every year, play them in early September and go into conference play 3-0...and people will be enthused about football in this area.

 

[SmilinBob]

Would the money spent to advertise really offset the cost to get a few fans? I'd by far rather have them find a way to get kids/groups in for free. Have fun contests that gives away 4-50 seats to groups. Get people talking and involved by doing that. Jesus, there has to be Newhouse grads around, use the TV to drum up contests on Channel 3/5/9/24 and Time Warner...the radios as well. Make it fun, a weekly thing and a challenge, kind of like the Post Standard $2000 give away. People love that stuff.

 

[All4SU]

Anyone wearing orange gets in free!

 

[Stern]

Come October at the football games when single game basketball tickets go on sale all we will see during breaks in action are video board commercials promoting the fact SU basketball single game tickets are going on sale. Go to a basketball game (where its usually packed with fans) do you ever see any promotion for football? NOPE!

At EVERY basketball game on the other side of the Dome where they put up the 3 basketball hoops, sell food, and have some vendors promoting stuff SU should have a giant table that promotes SU football. Sell those $100 endzone/300 level season tickets right there on the spot. Have a promo where if you buy a pair of football season tickets right there in person at a basketball game you get 4 FREE tickets to a future basketball game within the next year (ya know one of the Nov/Dec games vs cupcake like an Cornell, LeMoyne, or Detroit.)

 

[Timonen]

How much would it cost a family of four to attend Clemson game? Assume average seats, parking, concessions...300? 400? Big chunk of change for prime in a town like that. I think that's always been an issue with the school and the local populace...it's a completely different demo.

i don't get this argument. aren't there ~$100 season tickets? if money's an issue, forget the decent seats (there isn't a bad seat, btw) and forget the concessions. this is not a money issue. it's a caring about the product issue. if it was monster trucks, the place would be filled. college football thrives lots of places where people don't have much money...and su games are exponentially cheaper to attend. i'm not blaming the city/people. people should do what they want. but the fact that the product isn't compelling enough should be the focus of marketing, not the price.

 

[MikeSU02]

i don't get this argument. aren't there ~$100 season tickets? if money's an issue, forget the decent seats (there isn't a bad seat, btw) and forget the concessions. this is not a money issue. it's a caring about the product issue. if it was monster trucks, the place would be filled. college football thrives lots of places where people don't have much money...and su games are exponentially cheaper to attend. i'm not blaming the city/people. people should do what they want. but the fact that the product isn't compelling enough should be the focus of marketing, not the price.

Money is always an issue.

Have you ever taken kids to any place? Do you think you can just say "nope, not getting concessions!". Not realistic.

Parking, tickets, food, drinks, etc.

Syracuse isn't located in Silicon Valley where there is a strong upper middle class and it isn't in a location where college football is a religion.

Money is certainly one of the factors in the decision.

 

[Timonen]

Money is always an issue.

Have you ever taken kids to any place? Do you think you can just say "nope, not getting concessions!". Not realistic.

Parking, tickets, food, drinks, etc.

Syracuse isn't located in Silicon Valley where there is a strong upper middle class and it isn't in a location where college football is a religion.

Money is certainly one of the factors in the decision.

i have a 2 and a 6 year old. if the options are "don't go...or go but get your hot dogs and ice cream after the game," the choice is the latter. sorry, but it's weird to say you're mandated to buy concessions during the 3 hours in the dome. you don't need food/drinks every 3 hours period during the day. that's an odd excuse.

and silicon valley? is san jose st the banchmark? is the economy booming in corvallis or knoxville or omaha? your point on "religion" is the entire issue. that's the needle that needs to move and price has nothing to do with that. we're cheaper and we don't have pro teams that should be dragging interest like a lot of the NE.

 

[MikeSU02]

i have a 2 and a 6 year old. if the options are "don't go...or go but get your hot dogs and ice cream after the game," the choice is the latter. sorry, but it's weird to say you're mandated to buy concessions during the 3 hours in the dome. you don't need food/drinks every 3 hours period during the day. that's an odd excuse.

and silicon valley? is san jose st the banchmark? is the economy booming in corvallis or knoxville or omaha? your point on "religion" is the entire issue. that's the needle that needs to move and price has nothing to do with that. we're cheaper and we don't have pro teams that should be dragging interest like a lot of the NE.

NY State will never be football as religion. It's not ingrained in kids and you don't grow up with it in your DNA. It will be the quality of the team and the cost to attend.

You can't just hold out hope that we start kicking butt again. The last time we finished a season ranked was 2001.

You absolutely have to improve the pricing models because you can impact that change much more quickly than you can create a top 15 college football team.

 

[Timonen]

NY State will never be football as religion. It's not ingrained in kids and you don't grow up with it in your DNA. It will be the quality of the team and the cost to attend.

You can't just hold out hope that we start kicking butt again. The last time we finished a season ranked was 2001.

You absolutely have to improve the pricing models because you can impact that change much more quickly than you can create a top 15 college football team.

being able to get 40K 5-6 times a year doesn't require it being a religion. that difference is baked into the size of the dome. good product and good experience = plenty of attendance. i promise this isn't rocket science...but giving a product away doesn't build the brand or make any real difference in the fundamental issues.

 

[Marsh01]

Winning is the only marketing strategy. True story.

Ok, good talk.

This ^^^. Its the only thing that matters. All other stuff is just garbage. I wish I could like this 100 times

 

[MikeSU02]

being able to get 40K 5-6 times a year doesn't require it being a religion. that difference is baked into the size of the dome. good product and good experience = plenty of attendance. i promise this isn't rocket science...but giving a product away doesn't build the brand or make any real difference in the fundamental issues.

We can agree to disagree. If you don't think that there is an opportunity to improve the pricing structure and have it impact attendance, we'll go round and round without getting anywhere.

I'll continue to contend that Syracuse's pricing model isn't the best model to be using. My argument is this: if you don't think that the pricing model can be improved, then you are arguing that all of the empty seats you see for the rest of the year are due to product and experience and NOTHING to do with price. I disagree with this statement.

One other thing, I can do without the condescending horse crap comment about this not being rocket science. This can be a civil discussion.

 

[Timonen]

We can agree to disagree. If you don't think that there is an opportunity to improve the pricing structure and have it impact attendance, we'll go round and round without getting anywhere.

I'll continue to contend that Syracuse's pricing model isn't the best model to be using. My argument is this: if you don't think that the pricing model can be improved, then you are arguing that all of the empty seats you see for the rest of the year are due to product and experience and NOTHING to do with price. I disagree with this statement.

One other thing, I can do without the condescending horse crap comment about this not being rocket science. This can be a civil discussion.

Oh lord. The point is that the giant issue isn't rocket science from a business perspective. The point is that if people don't care, the pricing structure doesn't matter so much short term...and definitely not long term. If wnba tix were free in my city, I would still never go. If you want seat fillers, that doesn't fix anything unless the product and gameday experience makes them want to come again and pay...plus you've now marginalized your most loyal base who paid full price. Not a long term strategy.

 

[MikeSU02]

Oh lord. The point is that the giant issue isn't rocket science from a business perspective. The point is that if people don't care, the pricing structure doesn't matter so much short term...and definitely not long term. If wnba tix were free in my city, I would still never go. If you want seat fillers, that doesn't fix anything unless the product and gameday experience makes them want to come again and pay...plus you've now marginalized your most loyal base who paid full price. Not a long term strategy.

We have wavered between being mediocre and terrible for over a decade. And you are saying the fix is making a better product and, to an extent, a better experience as much as you can with a mediocre or poor product. Oh, really? Amazing! (see, I can be snarky as well). Again, I'll reiterate, we have been mediocre or crappy for over a decade.

We just hired an assistant to be our head coach. Not someone who is guaranteed to bring in high profile recruits and almost guaranteed winning season after winning season.

And you are telling me that adjusting the pricing model is not important. That we may marginalize our loyal fan base? "Hey fans, we have been focusing our marketing to NYC for quite some time, we have lost our connection with the I-90 and I-81 corridors, we moved games to MetLife Stadium and now... just hold on until we are really, really good again! We know you'll come back!"

Thanks for telling me the solution is a better product on the field. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath waiting for our next high profile bowl appearance.

We need to attack this from all avenues available. We need to be creative with added value experiences. We need to improve the pricing model we use. We need better community outreach. We need to repair broken relationships with older fans and we need to nurture ones that are barely there with younger fans.

 

[AZOrange]

i don't get this argument. aren't there ~$100 season tickets? if money's an issue, forget the decent seats (there isn't a bad seat, btw) and forget the concessions. this is not a money issue. it's a caring about the product issue. if it was monster trucks, the place would be filled. college football thrives lots of places where people don't have much money...and su games are exponentially cheaper to attend. i'm not blaming the city/people. people should do what they want. but the fact that the product isn't compelling enough should be the focus of marketing, not the price.

You're trying to rebuild a fan base...there are many factors that keep people away. One of which is cost. When you have a marginal product, cost matters. Either we look at things like pricing or we keep our fingers crossed on multiple 10 win seasons


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[OttosBestFriend]

Id rather us take the marketing money and have the university buy tickets to the games and give them out free to soldiers/kids/police/fire/emt peoples. Lets get some damn seats filled..they will make all their money back on concessions anyways.

Here's the problem with that theory...

Once people get used to receiving free tickets, they will never pay for them again.

I worked in the marketing dept for the NJ Nets during the Derrick Coleman/Kenny Anderson years and this was explained to me matter-of-factly.

It's similar to what happened with stand-up comedy clubs. During the 1990's many comedy clubs across America "papered" the room with free passes so that they could get people in for the 2-drink minimum on nights when the huge stars weren't in town.

Problem was the general public got so used to receiving free tickets that they never wanted to pay when the biggest names came to town and ultimately many clubs closed and many of the ones that remained open stopped booking the A-list talent because they simply couldn't afford it.

I'm just as guilty of this practice. There are certain restaurants that I really like for a quick lunch (Moe's, Jersey Mike's, Johny Rockets, and a few others), but I only go to the one that I have a coupon for so I don't have to pay full price. For as much as I like those above restaurants, I don't think I've paid full price at any of them in years - And I go to each one at least once or twice a month.

 

[Jeepers]

Once people get used to receiving free tickets, they will never pay for them again.

Thumbs up.

 

[Legendof44]

eh...i dont know man haha...im not going to pick denny's over dinosaur bbq just because i can get a $2 meal. Am i in the minority in that? I think if they let kids in for free as long as space was there its not going to hurt a thing. Make it in the tops family section and dont sell tickets in that area unless the rest of the Dome is full. Giving out tickets to soldiers is also not going to hurt anyone..we will make double in concessions what they would get for an unsold ticket to begin with. Picking a different location for police/emt/fire every game is a good idea because it will get them interested if they arent already and possibly create new fans. I dont see how any of those options hurt us.

 

[Timonen]

You're trying to rebuild a fan base...there are many factors that keep people away. One of which is cost. When you have a marginal product, cost matters. Either we look at things like pricing or we keep our fingers crossed on multiple 10 win seasons -

Cost matters...but as I and others have stated here, it doesn't matter that much if people don't want the product. Build the team. Optimize the schedule. Reach out to the community (schools, youth leagues, rec leagues, businesses). Market. THEN determine your price point. If you do the latter without doing the former, you've got a fan base that doesn't care, a product that stinks and no connection with the community. You can't give away tickets to that.

 

[AZOrange]

Cost matters...but as I and others have stated here, it doesn't matter that much if people don't want the product. Build the team. Optimize the schedule. Reach out to the community (schools, youth leagues, rec leagues, businesses). Market. THEN determine your price point. If you do the latter without doing the former, you've got a fan base that doesn't care, a product that stinks and no connection with the community. You can't give away tickets to that.

I don't think you can do any of those things in a vacuum. You have to do them together. I don't know what the average attendance is but the thing that strikes me is that a decade or so has gone by on a generation of fans. You have to rebuild that part of your base. You will always have X season tix holders, students etc. it's the game day buyers (ie young families, 20 something's) that I think you're missing. When you "start over" like SU is doing this year is the time to get those types back...get invested in SS, Hunt, etc


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[Legendof44]

SU is nearly an invisible presence outside of the University area. Very little radio or other media. Hell, Cornell is a much bigger presence as far as promos go. Certainly at least from south of Syracuse to PA.

I didnt know they had radio south of syracuse to PA.

 

[chakka3421]

Winning is the only marketing strategy. True story.

Ok, good talk.

Yes but if it is only about winning then is a vicious circle when your team loses like SU has done over the last decade. You got to create an "atmosphere" beyond winning to get casual fans to come win or lose - they will come if its a "game day" experience.

I have heard of some terrific ideas - all stopped dead in their tracks because SU itself cannot get out of its own way by throwing up so many roadblocks due to their "fear" of potential lawsuits. One simple example is to allow drinking around the Dome and on the Quad during game days only.

And before you people jump all over this as a bad idea - well then get rid of beer sales inside the Dome. It simply does not make sense to me - SU - "NO Drinking Outside of Dome" versus "Drinking allowed Inside Dome Only". Where is the sense in this?

I have heard of so many great ideas - and non original but allowed at other Universities - but they all get killed by the SU administration - even money making ideas. The SU Admin (yes that includes the old Chancellor & BOD) simply lives in fear and fear causes inaction. They really need to hire different legal counsel and I am encouraged that the new Chancellor has a legal mind - I just don't know if he gets atmosphere and that football drives the bus.

 

[AZOrange]

Yes but if it is only about winning then is a vicious circle when your team loses like SU has done over the last decade. You got to create an "atmosphere" beyond winning to get casual fans to come win or lose - they will come if its a "game day" experience.

I have heard of some terrific ideas - all stopped dead in their tracks because SU itself cannot get out of its own way by throwing up so many roadblocks due to their "fear" of potential lawsuits. One simple example is to allow drinking around the Dome and on the Quad during game days only.

And before you people jump all over this as a bad idea - well then get rid of beer sales inside the Dome. It simply does not make sense to me - SU - "NO Drinking Outside of Dome" versus "Drinking allowed Inside Dome Only". Where is the sense in this?

I have heard of so many great ideas - and non original but allowed at other Universities - but they all get killed by the SU administration - even money making ideas. The SU Admin (yes that includes the old Chancellor & BOD) simply lives in fear and fear causes inaction. They really need to hire different legal counsel and I am encouraged that the new Chancellor has a legal mind - I just don't know if he gets atmosphere and that football drives the bus.

Don't take this the wrong way but you'll see SU get rid of beer in the dome before you see them ok drinking on the quad IMO. Just not the direction society is going .


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[alphaorange]

I didnt know they had radio south of syracuse to PA.

Elevators, too

 

[llandz]

Interesting. I went from getting the McDonalds packages for the Nets, and ended up a season ticket holder. Three families split 5 seats for the year. So those packages DID work.
All points here are valid.
1. Scheduling. We can't do anything about that this year. Maybe not even next year. So that is for the future. But we still have most of this season left. So let's discount that for right now, but keep it mind going forward.
2. Winning. OK, The old chicken and the egg theory can be explored here. We aren't winning so the fans aren't going to come, so some say. Maybe the players would be more motivated to win if the fans came and filled up the seats. I am sure it is hard to come from behind in an empty home stadium. The two work hand in hand. New coach. Let's give these players a chance, and support them. Yes if we are undefeated numbers will go quickly up. Cause everyone wants to be on the bandwagon.
3. Cost. If the seats are empty would it hurt to use freebies or promos to fill them up? As I stated above this turned me into a season ticket holder in NJ. If it does not work that way at least you have fans there cheering on the players. Also your stands do not look empty to possible big recruits. If this helps with the winning then #2 kicks in. And if the poster who worked for the NJ Nets is correct, then it will just be tough luck for those who got freebies in the past. But maybe instead they will go to the sports bars in town, or host game viewing parties, and all of this will build the Syracuse football hype.

So in conclusion, #3 is the first priority for THIS season. And #1 to look at going forward with our future scheduling. Hopefully all of this leads us to #2. We are 1-2 this season. We can't change that. So we have to look at what our option are for right now.

 

[Cusefan95]

If anything Syracuse should sheet can the $99 season tickets and raise the prices so we have a realistic pricing model for 2013 a FBS football program. If we can't get fans at that pricing and people want more price cuts across the board, clearly this strategy to win fans back was a mistake.

I'm getting the impression there are people on here that want SU to provide free tickets and throw a carnival in the Quad thinking that somehow the average indifferent CNY resident that would rather rake leaves on a Saturday is suddenly going to decide to spend his day at a football game instead. YES, winning is all that really matters - at best SU is putting lipstick on a pig with any efforts to get attendance up until then. More likely they are doing even more damage in a panic effort to attract fans to the Dome. When you have to virtually give away your product at prices way, way, way below what other similar businesses are doing (other northeastern FBS programs) - isn't that a pretty clear signal to the market that you have very few customers? How exactly is SU going to create buzz about the program and convince people that the Dome is the place to be by advertising the fact nobody gives a damn about the product, so they have to virtually give it away? Weird logic to me...