When to make the transition...

[supp]

Let's assume that the transition plan is still in effect. Some people talked before the season about Boeheim maybe backing away from the original 3 more years comment that he made when the transition plan was formally announced before last season. The year-to-year decision thing doesn't seem to be helping on the recruiting front, according to people who claim to have inside info. Maybe it's hurting us on the court, with the coach's lack of a future commitment damaging his authority with the players. But I'm not sure how much evidence there is for that. There were a number of episodes in the past when players tuned Boeheim out, well before the retirement talk. I think we can all agree that the uncertainty about the future isn't a good thing for the program. Right now it's only good for Boeheim since he doesn't have to commit to a date.

I agree that he's earned to right to leave on his own terms and not be forced out but I think he also needs to spell out exactly when that will be. Ideally, you'd like to see him go out on a high note. In retrospect, last year would have been a perfect time to retire. At this point in the season, it looks like we will struggle to finish with a winning record. Will things be better next year? Same point guard problem, potentially no Lydon, and no impact players as of now signed up to fill glaring holes in the lineup. Of course, this is not how coaches think. They believe that they'll be able to raise their guys up to the challenge. But the challenge is significantly greater in the ACC than it was for much of the BE years. And it won't get easier with a few more .500 or sub-.500 league records strung together and dwindling crowds at home games. When the dome is full, it's electric. When it's not...

So, does it make sense to hang on another year or another couple of years? To potentially tarnish the memory of his career? Boeheim should have a chat with his good friend Gary Williams on this subject.

 

[chakka3421]

2017-2018 season is the end per the Chancellor. That was the agreed to date in light of and during the sanction process with the NCAA. No waiver will be given or contract be renewed.

 

[Alsacs]

2017-2018 season is the end per the Chancellor. That was the agreed to date in light of and during the sanction process with the NCAA. No waiver will be given or contract be renewed.

Any sense of Wildhack's relationships with JB?
If both sides are smart they don't want a lame duck year.

 

[EastCoast2]

JB should retire before ACC play starts. Give Hopkins the rest of this year and all of next year to prove himself competent. If he doesn't light the world on fire, begin an external search.

 

[chakka3421]

Any sense of Wildhack's relationships with JB?
If both sides are smart they don't want a lame duck year.

My understanding is that the end of JB's career coincides with the end of the NCAA sanctions so the new coach is not hindered with any scholie reductions.

 

[Alsacs]

My understanding is that the end of JB's career coincides with the end of the NCAA sanctions so the new coach is not hindered with any scholie reductions.

Actually Hop's first year 2017-2018 would be the last year.
We only lose 1 scholarship though. So that won't be a killer. I don't know if the recruiting restriction will still be in a effect.

 

[realorange]

Actually Hop's first year 2017-2018 would be the last year.
We only lose 1 scholarship though. So that won't be a killer. I don't know if the recruiting restriction will still be in a effect.

If you look at a post above you'll see that next year, 17-18 is JB's last year.

 

[Alsacs]

If you look at a post above you'll see that next year, 17-18 is JB's last year.

The sanctions were
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
We only lose 1 scholarship the last year because we lost 3 last year and they reduced it to 2 per year.

 

[cuse2013]

2017-2018 season is the end per the Chancellor. That was the agreed to date in light of and during the sanction process with the NCAA. No waiver will be given or contract be renewed.

you're crazzyyyy if you think that's set in stone.

 

[Madbiker]

JB should retire before ACC play starts. Give Hopkins the rest of this year and all of next year to prove himself competent. If he doesn't light the world on fire, begin an external search.

Here you go Mike. Leaving you with a train wreck team that won't win more than 4 conference games & will set you up nicely to get sacked. That's not JB.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I have a tough time believing the transition is affecting recruiting. Hop won't be too different from what JB does now. Personnel needs will be the same. And even though it might look like JB is not around anymore it would be crazy for Hop not to rely on his consul.

What would send a bad message is making changes to the transitional arrangements already made.

In any case, how would any change to those arrangements salvage this season? Or next?

 

[Tom W.]

I don't post very much, but I gotta say, I have been quite shocked at the people calling for JB's head on here recently. Seems totally ridiculous to me. Insane is a good word. 3 Years in the ACC. A 25-0 start, a Final Four just months ago, and now he needs to go? Slow your roll guys. We have a big name program because of our coach. The team will improve. You don't just get rid of a HOF coach coming off a Final Four because of a bad start in the first 12 games of the very next season. Wow. Some need to R-E-L-A-X...

 

[Jasoncuse]

It really loooks like it should be sooner rather than later. Everything is trending way down and this program has already sunk to new lows. With a bunch of players leaving after the season and not much coming in, this season as his last would make a ton of sense. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if JB makes some sort of announcement in season that this year will be it. If he announces in a January or early February that this is it, the fans can give him the sendoff he deserves over the last few home games. At this point, it's hard to argue that whatever is being done now is working. It may be best for the program for the change to occur soon.

I hope when he does retire that we know ahead of time so the Dome can be packed with 35,000+ for his final games.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I don't post very much, but I gotta say, I have been quite shocked at the people calling for JB's head on here recently. Seems totally ridiculous to me. Insane is a good word. 3 Years in the ACC. A 25-0 start, a Final Four just months ago, and now he needs to go? Slow your roll guys. We have a big name program because of our coach. The team will improve. You don't just get rid of a HOF coach coming off a Final Four because of a bad start in the first 12 games of the very next season. Wow. Some need to R-E-L-A-X...

This isn't just a bad start. This is a bad 3 years and getting worse. The Final Four was amazing, but a bit fluky, and it has obviously masked a lot of what's wrong with this program right now. The offense is broken and not working, recruiting has gotten too narrow minded and not benefitted at all from the FF and overall, we have not been winning anywhere near what we're accustom to. Then there's the zone, which obviously isn't working with this group.

In the past 3 seasons, we're well under .500 against power conference teams, we have never won an ACC tourney game, we keep losing every game to old rivals and our offensive numbers are plummeting. Things are not right and people looking for change aren't basing it on 12 games.

 

[pfister1]

JB should retire before ACC play starts. Give Hopkins the rest of this year and all of next year to prove himself competent. If he doesn't light the world on fire, begin an external search.

What? Give Mike the team that JB can't get to play for him, and if he can't turn them around then he must suck and we should start looking for a replacement????

Now that's the Christmas spirit. Are you out of your mind?

 

[SoBeCuse]

This isn't just a bad start. This is a bad 3 years and getting worse. The Final Four was amazing, but a bit fluky, and it has obviously masked a lot of what's wrong with this program right now. The offense is broken and not working, recruiting has gotten too narrow minded and not benefitted at all from the FF and overall, we have not been winning anywhere near what we're accustom to. Then there's the zone, which obviously isn't working with this group.

In the past 3 seasons, we're well under .500 against power conference teams, we have never won an ACC tourney game, we keep losing every game to old rivals and our offensive numbers are plummeting. Things are not right and people looking for change aren't basing it on 12 games.

That guy might be the homer of all homers. Wow. Townie has a special friend now.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I don't understand why we keep talking about this. The transition plan is pretty straightforward and we all know what is happening. I should say all the rational people do. Next season is Jim Boeheim's last as the coach at which point Mike Hopkins takes over.

 

[Tom W.]

This isn't just a bad start. This is a bad 3 years and getting worse. The Final Four was amazing, but a bit fluky, and it has obviously masked a lot of what's wrong with this program right now. The offense is broken and not working, recruiting has gotten too narrow minded and not benefitted at all from the FF and overall, we have not been winning anywhere near what we're accustom to. Then there's the zone, which obviously isn't working with this group.

In the past 3 seasons, we're well under .500 against power conference teams, we have never won an ACC tourney game, we keep losing every game to old rivals and our offensive numbers are plummeting. Things are not right and people looking for change aren't basing it on 12 games.

Bad three years? What seasons were you watching? They started off 25-0 3 years ago. Yes, they struggled at the end but come on, that was not exactly a bad season. Two years ago was the probation year which we were really dead from the start, and last year was a Battle 4 Atlantis victory, a win @Duke, and a Final Four run. We also had about 5 NBA draft picks in those three years. I must be missing something that was so utterly bad about those years.

 

[SBU72]

"Maybe it's hurting us on the court, with the coach's lack of a future commitment damaging his authority with the players."
There are 4 srs on te team, so they don't care about the future and maybe 2 or 3 others leaving early. (Lydon, Battle and Thompson if he keeps having a Lydon type of 1st yr). Can't say that lack of future commitment is a problem. 2 of the 3 guys it is most likely affecting aren't even playing.

 

[SWC75]

Trump will become President in 2017 and Jim Boeheim will retire at the end of the 2017-18 season. You may not like it but that's what's going to happen. Someitmes in life, you have to make the best of things.

 

[moqui]

You'll miss him when he's gone. You have no idea how much.

Syracuse basketball is Jim Boeheim. The Dome helped, the rise of the Big East helped, but Boeheim was the real difference. In college basketball, a great coach can make all the difference, and for most of his run Boeheim was one of the four or five best minds in all of college hoops. Lucky for SU fans, he was a local and a lifer, otherwise SU would not have been able to afford him and he would have left long ago.

Absent him, Syracuse runs the risk of becoming Providence or Seton Hall or any other small, private Northeast school. A local power that on occasion, if everything fell into place, could make a nice run. And, when that happens, the coach gets courted by big schools with deep pockets and bolts. A vicious circle: Steppingstone University. Look at SU's traditional, regional peers – Georgetown post-Thompson, Uconn post-Calhoun, St. John's post-Carnesseca. It's hard to hit that kind of homerun twice. Villanova was a middling program post-Massimino until they got lucky with Wright, who also looks to be a lifer.

SU fans better pray that Hopkins is a winner, because he, too, is a lifer. Even if Hop is everything you hope, it likely will be into the next decade before Syracuse will be able to consistently compete at the highest levels again. And if he's not all that . . .

If he fails, then Syracuse becomes just another program. Then you're looking for a coach with a limited budget – any money the AD has will be dedicated to keeping Babers & his staff, because football drives the bus, even at a basketball school.

All that being said, it is time for Boeheim to go. The NCAA sanctions were designed to hamstring Syracuse, and that's exactly what they've done. And those sanctions were richly deserved. I scoffed at the notion that the Orange deserved punishment for the drug policy thing and the YMCA stuff, and maybe they wouldn't have been . . . if not for the Fab Melo stuff. That was unconscionable. The Athletic Director chairing a meeting seeking extraordinary intervention to keep eligible a clearly ineligible player? It was outrageous. It is nearly the worst kind of violation a program can have – a complete abdication of educational responsibility. If anyone ever deserved a show cause penalty, it was Daryl Gross; its stunning to me that he didn't get one, probably only because it was JB they really wanted. And Boeheim deserves condemnation, too, for his studious efforts to keep plausible deniability on things, even when he probably really did know that something underhanded was up. Reading that report turned me off on Boeheim, and the “our poop doesn't stink” attitude of SU fans turned me off of SU basketball. I still follow it; I still lurk here from time to time, but it will never again be the same for me. It's almost Faustian – the obsessive pursuit of that 2nd title has instead put a stake into the heart of the program.

 

[EastCoast2]

What? Give Mike the team that JB can't get to play for him, and if he can't turn them around then he must suck and we should start looking for a replacement????

Now that's the Christmas spirit. Are you out of your mind?

It's not the case that JB can't get the team for him. It's the case that the team doesn't want to play for JB. He's lost them, and I think that there are several players he'll never get back in his side. Not out of my mind. I'm not concerned with "Christmas spirit" when thinking about what's best for this program these next 3-5 years. I think there's a real chance if JB stays the next 1.5 years, we haven't seen the worst of this dumpster fire. It can get worse than these past 3 weeks.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Here you go Mike. Leaving you with a train wreck team that won't win more than 4 conference games & will set you up nicely to get sacked. That's not JB.

Do not see JB being able to turn this thing around whatsoever this year. I expect 5-7 ACC wins and would honestly be pleased with that. I could easily see this team being below .500 and recruiting is not looking very bright. Regardless, Hopkins is not going to be taking over with a lot of riches and assets. Whether it be sometime this year or after the stated end of JB in 2017-2018. Wildhack is in a tough position.

 

[pearl31]

You'll miss him when he's gone. You have no idea how much.

Syracuse basketball is Jim Boeheim. The Dome helped, the rise of the Big East helped, but Boeheim was the real difference. In college basketball, a great coach can make all the difference, and for most of his run Boeheim was one of the four or five best minds in all of college hoops. Lucky for SU fans, he was a local and a lifer, otherwise SU would not have been able to afford him and he would have left long ago.

Absent him, Syracuse runs the risk of becoming Providence or Seton Hall or any other small, private Northeast school. A local power that on occasion, if everything fell into place, could make a nice run. And, when that happens, the coach gets courted by big schools with deep pockets and bolts. A vicious circle: Steppingstone University. Look at SU's traditional, regional peers – Georgetown post-Thompson, Uconn post-Calhoun, St. John's post-Carnesseca. It's hard to hit that kind of homerun twice. Villanova was a middling program post-Massimino until they got lucky with Wright, who also looks to be a lifer.

SU fans better pray that Hopkins is a winner, because he, too, is a lifer. Even if Hop is everything you hope, it likely will be into the next decade before Syracuse will be able to consistently compete at the highest levels again. And if he's not all that . . .

If he fails, then Syracuse becomes just another program. Then you're looking for a coach with a limited budget – any money the AD has will be dedicated to keeping Babers & his staff, because football drives the bus, even at a basketball school.

All that being said, it is time for Boeheim to go. The NCAA sanctions were designed to hamstring Syracuse, and that's exactly what they've done. And those sanctions were richly deserved. I scoffed at the notion that the Orange deserved punishment for the drug policy thing and the YMCA stuff, and maybe they wouldn't have been . . . if not for the Fab Melo stuff. That was unconscionable. The Athletic Director chairing a meeting seeking extraordinary intervention to keep eligible a clearly ineligible player? It was outrageous. It is nearly the worst kind of violation a program can have – a complete abdication of educational responsibility. If anyone ever deserved a show cause penalty, it was Daryl Gross; its stunning to me that he didn't get one, probably only because it was JB they really wanted. And Boeheim deserves condemnation, too, for his studious efforts to keep plausible deniability on things, even when he probably really did know that something underhanded was up. Reading that report turned me off on Boeheim, and the “our poop doesn't stink” attitude of SU fans turned me off of SU basketball. I still follow it; I still lurk here from time to time, but it will never again be the same for me. It's almost Faustian – the obsessive pursuit of that 2nd title has instead put a stake into the heart of the program.

whoa!!!
a moqui sighting?!?!?

 

[br801]

whoa!!!
a moqui sighting?!?!?

On Christmas Eve, no less. Hmm...