When you don’t have elite talent you need to adjust what you do depending on the matchup | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

When you don’t have elite talent you need to adjust what you do depending on the matchup

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No we didn’t.

We went man against Pitt and ND, two of our best wins of the regular season.

We turned the OSU tourney game with our press...which they often broke. But it sped them up and got them shooting quicker, and Jeremy McNeil went bonkers blocking and altering layup attempts.

You’re talking about 2 games in a 35 game season. Glad we stuck with our zone. We pressed against OSU. We won it all.
 
We still switch between zone & press; where did I say switching defenses was dumb?

Playing M2M for a few possessions isn’t likely to negatively impact how an elite opponent scores against us.

It’s dumb to think playing M2M for a few possessions against a team with superior talent is going to throw them into dysfunction.
Was the defense we were playing working ? Yes or no? I said earlier that unc probably would kill our man as well. What I’m saying is since we couldn’t stop them anyway, why not at least TRY to change something for a couple minutes in the off chance it did break momentum or what not ? If it was that bad that fast, we switch right back.
 
The first game when Kansas State won obviously. What defense did Kansas play in their win?
Kansas vs. Kansas State - Game Recap - February 5, 2019 - ESPN

Lol the gamestory proves the point you are wrong.

Buoyed by an electric home crowd, Kansas State raced to a 14-6 lead in the opening minutes, using their league-best defense to create turnovers and breaking down the Jayhawks' man-to-man defense.

That's when Self, generally reluctant to switch defenses, went to a 2/3 zone.

It immediately slowed down the Wildcats, just as it did when Texas A&M used it so successfully in the SEC-Big 12 Challenge. Kansas slowly chipped into its deficit, then embarked on a 13-0 charge late in the first half, when the Wildcats went nearly 8 minutes without scoring a point.
 
I never said anything about UNC.

I was responding to this “Some people can’t understand that switching to a defense we never play and that the opposing team sees 90% of the time is a dumb idea.”

Was it a dumb idea 12 years ago when the same specifics mentioned in the quote are true?

If you want to say, we can’t play man because we don’t have the skill/talent to play it, fine. To say switching defenses in general is a dumb idea, well, JB disagrees when he had the talent
We had plenty of talent 09-13. Talent is not why he stopped switching.
 
Was the defense we were playing working ? Yes or no? I said earlier that unc probably would kill our man as well. What I’m saying is since we couldn’t stop them anyway, why not at least TRY to change something for a couple minutes in the off chance it did break momentum or what not ? If it was that bad that fast, we switch right back.

This works better as a metaphor for a guy at a bar working up the courage to talk to a pretty woman than a sound strategy against a more talented opponent in a team sport.
 
You’re talking about 2 games in a 35 game season. Glad we stuck with our zone. We pressed against OSU. We won it all.

Im thinking there were more. Just pointed out those two because I 100% remember that we did(apparently you didn’t?).

We won it all...by scoring 95 and 81 in the final four games and averaging 80 ppg. The zone’s role was a bit overplayed in that title. We shut Oklahoma down.
 
Yeah I saw Kansas switched from man to man to zone because they were giving up 3’s against Kansas State. It didn’t work. They gave up a lot more 3’s and lost. Stick with your defense.
W t f. It doesn’t work one time and you want to shelve it? You must come from the JB coaching tree.
 
its not only flow - its about SPECIFIC things that are happening -

1. a very tall (the tallest?) team being OBLITERATED on the boards? could it have something to do with zone?
2. how good are battle and howard as man to man defenders? we dont know. my personal hunch is that they's be pretty good. how good is chukwu as a man to man defender? i bet he'd be even better than in zone. brissett too...not too many 3s/4s are going to trouble him in man, imo...

and

3. i think to a man - SU would be TALLER than the opponent they are gaurding in man - which should be a good predictor of success, right?

I really doubt braxtn beverly gets his career-high like he did vs zone if battle was in his grill all game...he def didnt vs duke when they guarded him man to man...

to me its THIS ROSTER and THESE PLAYERS who are more suited to man than ZONE and not just about switching it up to mess with flow.

apart from size - they just aren't cerebral types that "think" the game very well - which makes zone tough - especially key players like chukwu/sidibe/brissett.
I'm sorry, but you may be insane. Chukwu would get destroyed playing man. Obliterated. He'd fall all over the place.
 
What makes you think switching to man to man would “confuse” UNC or make the slightest bit of difference? C’mon dude.

I'll chime in, and I have no great desire to see us go man. It's likely the same rationale you use for the press though.

You change the dynamic of the game. Maybe you change the pace, maybe somebody gets more engaged as M2M is more about matching up than guarding an area - you give players a chance to go out and just see who is more willing to get after it. It's just a few possessions...I can see it making a difference beyond "OMG, the other team has seen a M2M defense before, dear heavens, how could this make a difference! Ahhhhhh!"

Maybe you get your best defender in M2M on someone with a hot hand, and just let the other guys tough it out. Maybe it doesn't' work at all. The press defense sometimes doesn't work at all, sometimes it does...doesn't mean you shouldn't throw it in when you may need to. M2M often can just be about telling your guys it's time to man-up and see who's tougher.
 
Im thinking there were more. Just pointed out those two because I 100% remember that we did(apparently you didn’t?).

We won it all...by scoring 95 and 81 in the final four games and averaging 80 ppg. The zone’s role was a bit overplayed in that title. We shut Oklahoma down.

still looking for a google image of their PG with a deer in the headlights look
 
still looking for a google image of their PG with a deer in the headlights look

I give you Hollis Price...

8b2a4ee7a4a53d0d39eda3bc7b097981.jpg
 
Thanks for the reminder of the name. I'm still looking for one from the actual game. The jersey would have a blue NCAA logo and the background would have all fans wearing orange.:)
 
I have no desire to see us switch defenses, but god this thread is reallllllly pushing me...

It’s so funny. But it’s really pushing me too. A couple of people have completely turned the general idea of “adjusting to a different defense in an attempt to help get stops when everything else isn’t working effectively”, into something like “we demand man defense and to play it 100% of the time against all competition and in every single game situation”, of which they’ve formed their rebuttals, as can be seen on recent pages “why would man be better? The zone works. Elite competition will score regardless. Stick with your main d.”

100% OF THE TIME. That’s the best part in all of this.
 
It’s so funny. But it’s really pushing me too. A couple of people have completely turned the general idea of “adjusting to a different defense in an attempt to help get stops when everything else isn’t working effectively”, into something like “we demand man defense and to play it 100% of the time against all competition and in every single game situation”, of which they’ve formed their rebuttals, as can be seen on recent pages “why would man be better? The zone works. Elite competition will score regardless. Stick with your main d.”

100% OF THE TIME. That’s the best part in all of this.

Announcers are mouth breathers who can barely keep from drooling all over the microphones, but also when they never point out that a team getting torched should switch to zone they are 10000 percent correct.
 
It’s so funny. But it’s really pushing me too. A couple of people have completely turned the general idea of “adjusting to a different defense in an attempt to help get stops when everything else isn’t working effectively”, into something like “we demand man defense and to play it 100% of the time against all competition and in every single game situation”, of which they’ve formed their rebuttals, as can be seen on recent pages “why would man be better? The zone works. Elite competition will score regardless. Stick with your main d.”

100% OF THE TIME. That’s the best part in all of this.

I think you have it backwards in this thread.

The original post suggested we should temporarily switch to man defense against elite talent when the zone is torched.

I disagreed with this because it’s built on a flawed premise - elite talent is likely to score regardless of defense played and zone is frequently used to mitigate talent disparity.

All of the “DO SOMETHING” reactionaries replied to twist the original idea into “I never said we should play man the whole game!!”

And tarred anyone who thinks playing man against elite talent is against switching out of zone (another failure in both reading comprehension and logic).

There’s a lot of defensive posturing all in the name of “DO SOEMTHING!!” in an attempt to reinforce some cockamamie idea that the coaching staff is failing.
 
Kansas vs. Kansas State - Game Recap - February 5, 2019 - ESPN

Lol the gamestory proves the point you are wrong.

Buoyed by an electric home crowd, Kansas State raced to a 14-6 lead in the opening minutes, using their league-best defense to create turnovers and breaking down the Jayhawks' man-to-man defense.

That's when Self, generally reluctant to switch defenses, went to a 2/3 zone.

It immediately slowed down the Wildcats, just as it did when Texas A&M used it so successfully in the SEC-Big 12 Challenge. Kansas slowly chipped into its deficit, then embarked on a 13-0 charge late in the first half, when the Wildcats went nearly 8 minutes without scoring a point.

Eh...K state hit 8 more 3’s and won the game Statboy. Watch the games and stop looking solely at box score. lol.
 
Eh...K state hit 8 more 3’s and won the game Statboy. Watch the games and stop looking solely at box score. lol.
You don’t get the point being debated here. It is so hilarious. Kansas switched defenses and that is what helped change momentum even though they lost.
It honestly amazes me when you argue it’s Diet Coke version of Townie.
 
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