Garrett_TD23
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Let's pretend it's 2003 again and the ACC just nabbed VT, Miami and BC, what could the Big East have done differently to keep from being raided a 2nd time?
Where did the Big East screw up?
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bnoro
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Wrote in a bigger text size 
No but seriously, I think they did what they could right after the raid happened, they just should have been more proactive, maybe split from the basketball schools or added more schools for football. If they signed the deal ESPN offered them last year I think we'd still be in the Big East, but ND told them to say no and wait.
No but seriously, I think they did what they could right after the raid happened, they just should have been more proactive, maybe split from the basketball schools or added more schools for football. If they signed the deal ESPN offered them last year I think we'd still be in the Big East, but ND told them to say no and wait.
OrangeMuskyFish
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Honestly, I think the biggest thing was the coaches. Every time it looked like we had programs stepping up, we had coaches being poached. I know nothing about what is considered to be appropriate contract procedures for head coaches, but the ability of college coaches to get out of their contracts is insanely easy. That is on the individual schools to work on. But I think the conference could have earmarked money for bonuses too. Bottom Line, the BE needed to get creative to keep their coaches.
USF and Louisville were good adds, but adding more basketball only schools to the mix was dumb. Should have added ECU and CFU instead. Giving the league deeper football and adding more schools into ACC territory. Not great additions, but it would have put the league in position to be more offensive when it came to this next step of expansion, instead of running for their lives.
Finally, the league needed an offensive facelift. Especially after Rich Rod and Petrino moved on, the league needed to huddle up and say "hey, we play a lot of defensive football in this league, and winning is important, but we lost Miami, VT, WVU, and LOU offenses, and ol Butch is already leading the next upstart Big East program with an offensive approach. We need eyeballs, so lets focus on passing the ball a bit."
Blaster
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OrangeAl
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Somebody please fill in the details about how ND got the Big East to turn down the ESPN contract. If this is literally true, then why isn't ND getting a lot of flak from the pundits in the media?
Garrett_TD23
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I feel bad for the football playing schools who remain in purgatory. Such a shame as I thought the Big East was holding its own in football.
I think when history is written, the Big East did exactly what it had to do, with the goal being keeping the football schools heads above water until a big shake up like is happening now started. They kept the auto-bcs bid, and put the league in the spotlight with basketball. I don't think there is any question that the teams left behind in 2003 were all prepared to jump ship at the first opportunity.
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cuseincincy
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The easy answer is split the football schools. It was and still is unavoidable but for some reason they are stubbornly hanging on to football. When 1/2 your schools don't field teams in the top revenue driving sport you've got a problem. That said I'm not sure it would have mattered. Once the ACC decided it wanted to add schools the Big East was going to get raided. Even though I could be argued that the Big East has been as good or better than the ACC since the 2003 raid, the difference in programs is great. Pitt, WVU and SU were the remaining established programs. UConn, USF, Cincy, Louisville vs. Florida State, Miami, Va Tech, Clemson is a mismatch.
IMO the ball was dropped and the real question is what coudl the BE have done to prevent BC, Va Tech & Miami from leaving in the first place. If the BE had added UC, Louisville, USF and either ECU or UCF back before the split they might have kept the ACC away. (might)
IMO the ball was dropped and the real question is what coudl the BE have done to prevent BC, Va Tech & Miami from leaving in the first place. If the BE had added UC, Louisville, USF and either ECU or UCF back before the split they might have kept the ACC away. (might)
Capt. Tuttle
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AU needed to step up and carry BE FB. They r the only school w the national cache to carry the conference. We didn't.
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MaxwellCuse
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Jake Crouthamel and the six remaining football schools (BC, SU, PITT, RU, WVU and CT) wanted to split from the basketball schools after the 2003 departure of VT and Miami. They wanted to form either an 8 or 9 team all-sports conference. Notre Dame and Penn State were the first two teams approached (by Buzz Shaw) but they turned down the invitation. They then looked at Louisville, Temple, Cincinnati, UCF, South Florida and Marshall, among others.
At some point between July and October 2003 the football schools were pursuaded by the basketball schools (plus ND) to focus on the 8/16 hybrid plan and the rest is history. The mistake was not pursuing the split and thinking too small. They should have started with 10 schools, and stated an intent to go to 12 once the initial 3 schools were integrated into the conference. Just MHO.
At some point between July and October 2003 the football schools were pursuaded by the basketball schools (plus ND) to focus on the 8/16 hybrid plan and the rest is history. The mistake was not pursuing the split and thinking too small. They should have started with 10 schools, and stated an intent to go to 12 once the initial 3 schools were integrated into the conference. Just MHO.
Have the schools sign a 50 million dollar exit penalty fee. I mean how dumb is it that the exit fee is only 5 million dollars when joining the ACC will pay you 11.5 a year. The Big East couldn't have kept this Frankenstein together without a ridiculous exit fee and an agreement where each school gave the conference its 1st and 2nd tier TV broadcast rights. Also, the Big East commissioner couldn't be affiliated with Providence College. Having the Big East Commissioner coming from PC would be like the ACC adding Davidson College as a Basketball only and letting them have the Commissioner position for the entire ACC and every subsequent Commissioner had to come from Davidson and protect Davidson basketball at all costs.
K
kingottoiii
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The BE leadership has always been from Providence. How the other schools allowed the least relevant school to lead things boggles the mind. They always looked down upon FB and actually went to the ACC asking to take on the BE FB schools for FB only, so they didn't have to deal with it. I am sure at that time the ACC said who are these buffoons leading the BE? Why don't we just pick who we want for all sports and leave behind the scraps. If the BE had real leadership they would have realized Temple's value and then raided the ACC first by taking FSU to get to 10 teams for FB and 15 for BBall. IMO the BE was the better FB conf before the raid but just didn't care. This made Miami unhappy and the rest is history.
Once the raid happened the BE should have gone to 10 FB and 16 BBall instead of 8 FB and 16 BBall (adding DePaul and Marquette were not worth it). That was a big mistake. In hindsight the BE's best options available at the time were TCU, Louisville, Houston, UCF, and USF. IMO UCF has always been a better choice vs USF. BE made a mistake there.
So mistake #1 was not caring about FB and keeping Miami happy. Mistake #2 was not going going to 10/16 and taking TCU who was a good program and added Dallas. And finally mistake #3 was not taking the ESPN contract in hopes of making more money with Vs. Even then I still think the BE would eventually be broken up as the B1G and ACC would still be better options for BE teams. But it would have happened maybe 10-15 years from now.
K
kingottoiii
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It is amazing that Mikey T kept his job after the first raid. He deserved to be fired. And now it happens again and there is no firing? The BE needs a FB guy running the conference. Not a guy who cares about a BBall only, small town catholic school.
Scooch
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As fun as it is to mock the BE, they did as good as they could to restock the league after '03. Yet, they were always going to be susceptible to get picked apart again. The BE's membership composition is simply not built to last.
The BE is full of good programs, but, in terms of media value (which is what conferences are ALL about), the sum has always been less than it's parts.
The BE is full of good programs, but, in terms of media value (which is what conferences are ALL about), the sum has always been less than it's parts.
OrangeXtreme
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Even if PSU received enough votes back in 1982 ... the BE was still only a basketball conference, with the BB schools outnumbering the FB schools 6-3.
Maybe if JoePa was still on good terms with SU and Pitt, all 4 of us (including BC) might have ended up in the BiG in 1991.
OrangeMuskyFish
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How can you say they did as good as they could to restock when they went after DePaul and Marquette? We already had one of the best, if not THE best, conference in basketball... we needed football schools that had the potential to grow into dangerous programs once they had the chance to get into a BCS conference and develop over a few recruiting cycles, while also giving us a couple basketball programs that could be bottom feeders for our top-tier teams to fatten up on. Out of four possible pluses, Marquette and DePaul brought one... the fact that DePaul stunk at basketball... wow. Great. Now, make no mistake, I am not saying Marquette's basketball program isn't a good one, but to me, we got no value out of it. Just another good, but not great, team that beat up on our top-tier teams, but couldn't really join them.
Scooch
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Tough to be harsh on someone that recently passed, but everything goes back to Gavitt. Mikey and Marinara were because of Gavitt and the BE was always a BB conference because of Gavitt. He had no vision for football, TV, $$$ etc. He let the basketball onlies call the shots and that continued with Mikey and Marinara.
CaptainSyracuse
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Adding Depaul and Marquette was rediculous.
OrangeMuskyFish
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And we saw exactly what happens when you blindly follow the money... so just because it may have been an easy decision, obviously didn't make it the right one.
K
kingottoiii
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Didn't FB offer more in TV back in 2003? Aren't Dallas and Houston or Orlando > Chicago and Milwaukee? Especially when you have a Chicago influence already in ND? DePaul and Marquette got in because of ND. That is all. ND wanted teams near them and wanted and even split for FB and BBall. The FB schools were dumb to accept it. TCU finished the season ranked in 2000, 2002, and 2003. They were the best FB school available at the time. A FB guy would have realized this (like Tags did when asked to consult years later). In addition if it is all about markets why kick Temple FB out?
ClkWrkOrange
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The only chance they had would have been to split from the BB onlies and form a 12 team all sports conference.They should have done it the minute they learned that the ACC was after Miami which was atleast a year or two before it actually happened.
Tornado91
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The ship sailed in the 1980s. Crouthamel's history of the BEC tells it all- they simply failed to recognize the importance of football. And even if they had, there's no guarantee it would've survived. Paterno was the right guy to make it happen, and if PSU had been a charter member of a true NE football conference, things could've played out a little differently, but the Big East brand was always basketball, and the conference was run by non-football schools.
A scenario that might have worked is PSU, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU, VaTech, and someone (Army?) as 8, with future growth that might have included Cincy & UConn. That is a TRUE northeastern conference with some compelling teams. But Paterno apparently didn't want to go with Pitt, and WVU &
VaTech weren't really in the picture yet, and basketball, and so on.
I'm looking forward to the ACC.
A scenario that might have worked is PSU, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU, VaTech, and someone (Army?) as 8, with future growth that might have included Cincy & UConn. That is a TRUE northeastern conference with some compelling teams. But Paterno apparently didn't want to go with Pitt, and WVU &
VaTech weren't really in the picture yet, and basketball, and so on.
I'm looking forward to the ACC.
