Where do you rank Calhoun..

[dasher]

Didn't they just go to 3 final fours with Big John? Same as us?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Didn't they just go to 3 final fours with Big John? Same as us?

In like half the time. They had a truly dominant run, like Michigan State had with 3 Final Fours in a row, back when Mateen Cleeves was there. We've never had that. With us, it's more "once a decade, lightning strikes". I'd like to see us challenge deeper in the NCAAs on a more regular basis, like other premier schools do, and we should have won more league titles than we have. You can't argue that. Boeheim's legacy is diminished a bit for not capitalizing on more opportunities than he has. Don't get me wrong, I think he's become more flexible since he worked with the pros on the Olympic team, and he is coaching the best of his career. But over his WHOLE career, yes, he's won a ton of games, we've been incredibly consistent, but we've rarely reached the mountaintop.

 

[br801]

In like half the time. They had a truly dominant run, like Michigan State had with 3 Final Fours in a row, back when Mateen Cleeves was there. We've never had that. With us, it's more "once a decade, lightning strikes". I'd like to see us challenge deeper in the NCAAs on a more regular basis, like other premier schools do, and we should have won more league titles than we have. You can't argue that. Boeheim's legacy is diminished a bit for not capitalizing on more opportunities than he has. Don't get me wrong, I think he's become more flexible since he worked with the pros on the Olympic team, and he is coaching the best of his career. But over his WHOLE career, yes, he's won a ton of games, we've been incredibly consistent, but we've rarely reached the mountaintop.

Based on this line of reasoning, I assume you would rank Billy Donovan's career above JB's as well.

 

[jccuse]

on the list of all-time greatest Big East coaches?

He has to be # 1 or # 2

 

[obliterata]

1) Calhoun
2) Thompson
3) Boeheim
4) Pitino
5) Massimino

Making the Elite Eight is a great accomplishment in my opinion, Sweet Sixteens are nice but if you have a very good basketball program/team you've got to make it farther to have a great year. So...

Calhoun's made it to at least the Elite Eight 9 times in 26 years at UConn (34.6%), very few coaches have a better percentage than that. Plus, as has been said, UConn wasn't very good when he took over and he made them a national power. Plus plus, he owned Coach K in the tournament.

Thompson made 7 Elite Eights or better in 27 years (25.9%). He was the first Big East coach to make the Elite Eight, the Final Four, and to win the National Championship - and he accomplished that with 3 different teams which is quite remarkable. He was also the first black coach to win the NC.

Boeheim has 5 E8s or better in 36 years (13.9%). If he stays 5 years, wins another title, and also makes another FF I might put him second.

Pitino has 4 E8s or better in 9 years at Providence and Louisville (44%). He just hasn't been coaching in the BE long enough to crack the top 3, if he had 20+ years in conference I would imagine he'd be second.

Massimino made 5 E8s or better in 16 years at Nova (31.3%) plus won a title, I have to give him the 5th spot over Carnesecca and Carlesimo.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Based on this line of reasoning, I assume you would rank Billy Donovan's career above JB's as well.

Don't be silly. Has Billy Donovan won about 10 or 15 SEC championships? He may do so, and he may keep winning, but the 2 NCAA titles alone aren't that much better than Boeheim playing in 3 championship games. It's the WHOLE career, not just 1 criterion that determines who is the best coach. But Donovan could be up there when he's finished.

 

[IthacaMatt]

1) Calhoun
2) Thompson
3) Boeheim
4) Pitino
5) Massimino

Making the Elite Eight is a great accomplishment in my opinion, Sweet Sixteens are nice but if you have a very good basketball program/team you've got to make it farther to have a great year. So...

Calhoun's made it to at least the Elite Eight 9 times in 26 years at UConn (34.6%), very few coaches have a better percentage than that. Plus, as has been said, UConn wasn't very good when he took over and he made them a national power. Plus plus, he owned Coach K in the tournament.

Thompson made 7 Elite Eights or better in 27 years (25.9%). He was the first Big East coach to make the Elite Eight, the Final Four, and to win the National Championship - and he accomplished that with 3 different teams which is quite remarkable. He was also the first black coach to win the NC.

Boeheim has 5 E8s or better in 36 years (13.9%). If he stays 5 years, wins another title, and also makes another FF I might put him second.

Pitino has 4 E8s or better in 9 years at Providence and Louisville (44%). He just hasn't been coaching in the BE long enough to crack the top 3, if he had 20+ years in conference I would imagine he'd be second.

Massimino made 5 E8s or better in 16 years at Nova (31.3%) plus won a title, I have to give him the 5th spot over Carnesecca and Carlesimo.

Good post. I should take the time to figure out Big East regular season and tournament championships, and that would complete the picture.

 

[IthacaMatt]

OK - Big East results

John Thompson II - 6 Big East tournament wins in 10 years, 4 outright regular season championships, 3 shared

Jim Calhoun- 7 tournament champs, 5 outright regular season titles, 3 shared.

Jim Boeheim - 5 tournament champs, 3 outright regular season titles, 6 shared.

Lou Carnesecca - 2 tournament titles, 1 outright regular season, 4 shared titles

Jamie Dixon - 2 tournament titles, 2 outright regular season, 2 shared

Rick Pitino - 2 tournament champs, 1 outright regular season champ.


So, Boeheim stacks up pretty close with Calhoun, but Calhoun gets the nod, IMO. If John Thompson II had stayed longer, he would have been considered the best coach. His dominance at the beginning of the Big East is what stamped its reputation, if you ask me. There were other elite coaches and teams, but Thompson was the best while he was there.

 

[Gabjon]

We have won 5 BET titles and we were runner up 9times! So we made the finals 14 times out of 33 tournaments that is 42% of the time. G-town 7 wins 6 loses 39% and Uconn 7wins 3 loses 30%.

 

[Shenexon]

I don't think the number of championships is the best metric to use in qualifying coaches. There are just too many variables in winning a championship to use that as your singular measure in determining the coaching pecking order. JB could easily have 3 more championships, JT II could have two more, JC could have 5 or 6, etc. Only one team can win and there's a lot of luck involved.

For that matter, I think coaching usually has less impact on the outcome of championships than players and fate, with the exceptions being Rollie Massamino and Jimmy Valvano. Those two guys had the single best coaching wins of all time, IMHO.

Thompson to me wasn't in the BE long enough to be the all-time BE best coach. His time in the BE was brief by my standards. He owned JB and was able to recruit perhaps the best teams the BE ever assembled, but that doesn't make him the best all-time coach.

I still rate JC as the best all-time BE game-day coach for what he did in bringing UConn from the depths of mediocrity to elite status. JC inherited mierda where JB inherited a program on the rise. However, there will never be a better coach for me than JB for what he's done for the program, the community, and for humanity. JC will never overtake JB for wins nor legacy, but in general had higher highs in March than JB.

That being said, James Boeheim is the all-time best program coach in Big East Conference history. He has the most wins, the most wins at his alma mater, the most consistent competitive level, and has developed the most dedicated fanbase within the Big East, if not the country. I know I'm a homer, but my criteria are broader than most. Yes, wins in March are important and can make or break careers. In that singular statistic, JC is the best. However, JB's impact on the Syracuse community and humanity in general is far greater than JC or other flash-in-the-pan BE coaches. I'm very impressed and give honor to Calhoun's career but give greater honor to JB's impact on the world. I believe that JB has had a greater impact on SU than Calhoun has had on UConn, at least in a positive way. What better criteria is there than that?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't think the number of championships is the best metric to use in qualifying coaches. There are just too many variables in winning a championship to use that as your singular measure in determining the coaching pecking order. JB could easily have 3 more championships, JT II could have two more, JC could have 5 or 6, etc. Only one team can win and there's a lot of luck involved.

For that matter, I think coaching usually has less impact on the outcome of championships than players and fate, with the exceptions being Rollie Massamino and Jimmy Valvano. Those two guys had the single best coaching wins of all time, IMHO.

Thompson to me wasn't in the BE long enough to be the all-time BE best coach. His time in the BE was brief by my standards. He owned JB and was able to recruit perhaps the best teams the BE ever assembled, but that doesn't make him the best all-time coach.

I still rate JC as the best all-time BE game-day coach for what he did in bringing UConn from the depths of mediocrity to elite status. JC inherited mierda where JB inherited a program on the rise. However, there will never be a better coach for me than JB for what he's done for the program, the community, and for humanity. JC will never overtake JB for wins nor legacy, but in general had higher highs in March than JB.

That being said, James Boeheim is the all-time best program coach in Big East Conference history. He has the most wins, the most wins at his alma mater, the most consistent competitive level, and has developed the most dedicated fanbase within the Big East, if not the country. I know I'm a homer, but my criteria are broader than most. Yes, wins in March are important and can make or break careers. In that singular statistic, JC is the best. However, JB's impact on the Syracuse community and humanity in general is far greater than JC or other flash-in-the-pan BE coaches. I'm very impressed and give honor to Calhoun's career but give greater honor to JB's impact on the world. I believe that JB has had a greater impact on SU than Calhoun has had on UConn, at least in a positive way. What better criteria is there than that?

"Best program coach" - now that's something I can agree with. He hasn't hit the heights of others as consistently, but he has seen the top, and we have been very, very good, for a very, very long time. That certainly counts for a lot. But I still would like to see him make another couple Final Fours, and grab another ring before he's done. Then I wouldn't have any problem with Boeheim being number 1 in Big East history.