Where there's smoke

[Louie&Bouie]

My perspective is probably more selfish, but I didn't understand during the last round of expansion why the B10 didn't take SU and Pitt. Academic profiles aside, it would have locked down the NE from a FB perspective, and greatly strengthened hoops.

I often wonder if Delaney is kicking himself. He would still have two slots left to fill.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The Big Ten is the Honey Badger.

The Big Ten don't care?

 

[Arizona Knight]

Or take nothing at all.

Delany's a smart guy. He's not going to do something that isn't a money making proposition for the bottom line.

Of course.

I was just responding to the idea that the BigTen would be left with the scraps if it didn't act soon. Unless the exit penalties become draconian (read more than say... 20MM), then the Big Ten will still be able to select the schools of their choice, at the time of their choosing, whether that be four schools, two schools, or no school as you pointed out.

Edit: Let me just add that Notre Dame and Texas (because of the LHN) are the exception.

 

[Upstate]

I don't think the B1G is looking to expand asap like other conferences. It may be a while before B1G adds anyone other than Texas or ND

 

[Townie72]

Not so sure. The B10 took a sniff the last time and passed on them. I used to think RU would get a B10 invite but a lot of time has passed without any action. I now think the only way they get one is if ND football ends up in the ACC or BE. As long as ND football stays indy, I don't think the B10 makes a move eastward. If ND football goes to the B10, then the B10 has all the NYC presence they need

Since you are our Michigan expert;

I have relatives through marriage and friends in several Midwestern states. There are graduates of several of the Big Ten schools in this group.

I am continually surprised how strongly these people identify as Midwesterners and how irritated they are by what they perceive is the slights they must endure from Easterners. "We know to you Easterners we're in fly-over" country", they say and they don't much like it.

Much of the Big Ten identity has to do with this "Midwestern" thing.

I can see this as a real impediment to inviting a quintessentially Eastern school as Rutgers. You can make the argument that Upstate NY is just like Michigan. But Rutgers is thoroughly New Jersey. To invite RU is to make the Big Ten into a different animal.

 

[rrlbees]

Since you are our Michigan expert;

I have relatives through marriage and friends in several Midwestern states. There are graduates of several of the Big Ten schools in this group.

I am continually surprised how strongly these people identify as Midwesterners and how irritated they are by what they perceive is the slights they must endure from Easterners. "We know to you Easterners we're in fly-over" country", they say and they don't much like it.

Much of the Big Ten identity has to do with this "Midwestern" thing.

I can see this as a real impediment to inviting a quintessentially Eastern school as Rutgers. You can make the argument that Upstate NY is just like Michigan. But Rutgers is thoroughly New Jersey. To invite RU is to make the Big Ten into a different animal.

Many ACC fans feel the same way but that didn't stop the ACC from taking BC, SU and Pitt.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Could there be fire!!
Link

The part nobody seems to notice in here

B1G? Maybe PSU finally got there wish.
ACC? ummm
MAC? likely

I was just wondering how often they give that authority unless a move is real possible.

I thnk that this is the time for the faculty who think that Rutgers is the Harvard of the swamp, to push for getting out of D-1 FB all together.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Many ACC fans feel the same way but that didn't stop the ACC from taking BC, SU and Pitt.

Its a mind set. I went to school with a Michigan guy and a Purdue guy. It was like they were living in the 1950's when it came to CFB and saturdays. Very scary, actually.

 

[longtimefan]

I'm not sure why everyone assumes the B1G, ACC, $EC, etc. "have" to choose/add anyone. They might choose any or all of these teams. They very well might not and stay at whatever number they see fit. If Syracuse was sitting on the outside looking in right now I certainly wouldn't feel as comfortable as some of these other teams fans in the thought that some other conference will "definitely" take us. I'd be hopeful but still knowing it's a coin flip. Probably a bit less for UConn and Cinci vs Rutgers, WVU, and L'Ville.

They don't *have* to choose anyone--at least not now.

Their problem comes when the current BCS agreement runs out. The 2 big players--SEC & B1G--have both made noises that they want the 2 teams per conference limit lifted. In other words, they want to hog an even larger share of the slots (money). If there are 5 conferences with 12-12-12-14-14 members (64 schools), the "haves" have a slight majority over the "have-nots", and there *might not* be much in the way of repercussions. But there is tremendous potential for Congress to get involved, because there will be political clout among those who are excluded. I'm sure that D-1 college presidents do not relish being called to defend their status as "non-profit" with all of the money grubbing that is going on.

[Of course, in the meantime, there is the real possibility that Texas will thumb their nose at everyone, and start the whole process over again.]

 

[Townie72]

Many ACC fans feel the same way but that didn't stop the ACC from taking BC, SU and Pitt.

There's so many people in North Carolina from "Up North" that anti-Yankee feeling has got to be dissapating. I've done a lot of business in the Carolinas and its rare that the meetings don't have transplanted Yankees in them. In the Midwest, that's a rarity ... probably because there's a huge population outflux.

And in the South there's this "class" thing going on too. As out of place as BC is in almost every attribute there is a similarity between between the actual student bodies (Sons and daughters of doctors, lawyers and bankers --- The Country Club set) SU sort of fits. Pitt, a little less so. But, Rutgers?

 

[All4SU]

Of course.

I was just responding to the idea that the BigTen would be left with the scraps if it didn't act soon. Unless the exit penalties become draconian (read more than say... 20MM), then the Big Ten will still be able to select the schools of their choice, at the time of their choosing, whether that be four schools, two schools, or no school as you pointed out.

Edit: Let me just add that Notre Dame and Texas (because of the LHN) are the exception.

I don't think it's a matter of "scraps." But I do think that eventually, the ACC, SEC, B10, PAC12 and B12 will be all at 16 -- eventually. It is my feeling that UConn and ND will end up in the ACC. WVU probably ends up B10 -- not SEC. The B10 will still want to pick up something in the Northeast, and the only option will be Rutgers. (Cincy, as Kaiser said, is probably left out. No idea about L'Ville and USF.) Just my guesses.

 

[SU2NASA]

Since you are our Michigan expert;

I have relatives through marriage and friends in several Midwestern states. There are graduates of several of the Big Ten schools in this group.

I am continually surprised how strongly these people identify as Midwesterners and how irritated they are by what they perceive is the slights they must endure from Easterners. "We know to you Easterners we're in fly-over" country", they say and they don't much like it.

Much of the Big Ten identity has to do with this "Midwestern" thing.

I can see this as a real impediment to inviting a quintessentially Eastern school as Rutgers. You can make the argument that Upstate NY is just like Michigan. But Rutgers is thoroughly New Jersey. To invite RU is to make the Big Ten into a different animal.

As another Michigan guy, I'll say that most Michigan fans and alums have no interest in Rutgers because they know that Rutgers brings nothing.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Since you are our Michigan expert;

I have relatives through marriage and friends in several Midwestern states. There are graduates of several of the Big Ten schools in this group.

I am continually surprised how strongly these people identify as Midwesterners and how irritated they are by what they perceive is the slights they must endure from Easterners. "We know to you Easterners we're in fly-over" country", they say and they don't much like it.

Much of the Big Ten identity has to do with this "Midwestern" thing.

I can see this as a real impediment to inviting a quintessentially Eastern school as Rutgers. You can make the argument that Upstate NY is just like Michigan. But Rutgers is thoroughly New Jersey. To invite RU is to make the Big Ten into a different animal.

True to a point. Culturally, Upstate NY-ers are very much like Midwesterners. The ACC is a better fit for SU in terms of similar-sized institutions, etc, but B10 fans are much more like your rank and file SU fan. Granted, Midwestern fans are much more used to more color and pagentry on gameday but culturally speaking Syracuse and B10 states are northern and share a certain similarity in a way that we won't with most ACC schools.

That said, Rutgers fans are nothing like Midwesterners, culturally speaking. However, Rutgers as an institution is not terribly dissimilar to a B10 school. They also have been investing in sports the way a B10 school does.

I think that IF the B10 felt there was a sound financial reason to take Rutgers, they'd hold their noses in the same way the ACC has held theirs for SU, BE, and Pitt.

It all boils down to $$$. I've said this before, but the B10 rarely does something that can be looked back upon as having been a mistake. So far, Rutgers has not been attractive enough for them. Longterm, I guess we'll have to see.

 

[Jake]

The more I read and as this thing drags out, the more I'm convinced Rutgers isn't getting a B1G invite. I think they are in a much worse position than UCONN.

I think the recent research done by conferences proves one thing about NYC. If you're name isn't Notre Dame, then your school isn't adding enough value to an existing conference's TV deal to make them invite you. Syracuse didn't get into the ACC because it carries NYC, nor is UCONN or Rutgers getting an invite because of market.

UCONN's hoops program is eventually going to get it an invite somewhere (likely the ACC once ND decides what the hell its gonna do).

Rutgers doesn't bring a strong brand in either major sport and they don't deliver a market. So tell me again why they aren't just another mouth to feed?

 

[Arizona Knight]

I don't think it's a matter of "scraps." But I do think that eventually, the ACC, SEC, B10, PAC12 and B12 will be all at 16 -- eventually. It is my feeling that UConn and ND will end up in the ACC. WVU probably ends up B10 -- not SEC. The B10 will still want to pick up something in the Northeast, and the only option will be Rutgers. (Cincy, as Kaiser said, is probably left out. No idea about L'Ville and USF.) Just my guesses.

Again, we disagree. If 2014 comes around and the Big Ten decides it wants to expand, I don't think Maryland is off the table by any stretch of the imaginatio despite the fact that they have a home in the ACC. There is a reason why Maryland apparently voted against the higher exit penalty. Do you think Pitt would take Delany's phone call?

 

[Cuseman78]

I agree with that. And I think the reason is that when the music stops, Buttgers will be the only northeastern team with out a chair, and they will be the B10's last choice.

Unless they are coupled with Notre Dame as #14, there is virtually no chance the Girls get invited to the B1G. No way, no how.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I think the recent research done by conferences proves one thing about NYC. If you're name isn't Notre Dame, then your school isn't adding enough value to an existing conference's TV deal to make them invite you. Syracuse didn't get into the ACC because it carries NYC, nor is UCONN or Rutgers getting an invite because of market.

Bingo. When the B10 went looking eastward, it obviously felt that none of the three schools (or perhaps even a combination of them) were going to dent the NYC market much.

They went with Nebraska, a traditional football power.

If I'm RU, I wouldn't be too comforted by the fact that I'm not viewed as attractive to the B10 from a NYC-TV standpoint, nor am I attractive as a football school. Their best hope lies in the ACC, but I have to feel that UConn is in a better position for that nod than RU is.

 

[Cuseman78]

Bingo. When the B10 went looking eastward, it obviously felt that none of the three schools (or perhaps even a combination of them) were going to dent the NYC market much.

They went with Nebraska, a traditional football power.

If I'm RU, I wouldn't be too comforted by the fact that I'm not viewed as attractive to the B10 from a NYC-TV standpoint, nor am I attractive as a football school. Their best hope lies in the ACC, but I have to feel that UConn is in a better position for that nod than RU is.

Agreed -- Delaney would have to do one hell of a sales job to get the current B1G presidents to go along with the idea of picking Rutgers. The B1G see themselves as a Midwestern conference so I find it hard to believe that an Illinois, or an Indiana, or a an Iowa would be in favor of inviting a school so culturally opposed as a Rutgers would be.

Along with the obvious cultural differences, I also don't see how the B1G presidents would allow for the dilution of their athletic product with a school who has never so much as won a Big East title. Talk about a tough sell.

The only way I can see this happening is if ND finally makes the leap and the B1G needs #14. If they do, who else would even be a candidate? I would think Rutgers would then be higher on the list and the presidents would be so giddy that they got ND that they would look the other way on having to bring Rutgers as #14.

 

[Townie72]

Again, we disagree. If 2014 comes around and the Big Ten decides it wants to expand, I don't think Maryland is off the table by any stretch of the imaginatio despite the fact that they have a home in the ACC. There is a reason why Maryland apparently voted against the higher exit penalty. Do you think Pitt would take Delany's phone call?

Two things you don't know about the University of Maryland.

1. UM Athletics must be self-sustaining by law. The athletic department cannot bleed the students for money to balance their books as is done at some other schools like RU.

2. The UM athletic department balances their books through the contributions of the Terrapin Club. As a result, the boosters have a huge say in what the University does. The Terrapin Club lives and breathes playing andd beating UNC and Duke in basketball. They would never agree to the UM moving to the Big Ten and the adminstration couldn't move to the Big Ten unless they had the support of the Terrapin Club.

Maryland is in the ACC forever.

 

[All4SU]

Then we are at an impasse.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Agreed -- Delaney would have to do one hell of a sales job to get the current B1G presidents to go along with the idea of picking Rutgers. The B1G see themselves as a Midwestern conference so I find it hard to believe that an Illinois, or an Indiana, or a an Iowa would be in favor of inviting a school so culturally opposed as a Rutgers would be.

Along with the obvious cultural differences, I also don't see how the B1G presidents would allow for the dilution of their athletic product with a school who has never so much as won a Big East title. Talk about a tough sell.

The only way I can see this happening is if ND finally makes the leap and the B1G needs #14. If they do, who else would even be a candidate? I would think Rutgers would then be higher on the list and the presidents would be so giddy that they got ND that they would look the other way on having to bring Rutgers as #14.

lets start by getting 1 unalienable truth posted, storz will NEVER be in the b1g.

ok, now that we are clear, lets move on...

mizzou is the last finger in the damn. once the SEC gets it act together and adds them we can finally be done with realignment.

the bevo9 will then have reason to go 12, they dont now. and when they go to 12, it will be wv, lville...and cincy gets itself out of the toilet it wouldve ended up in.

with the bigeast dead, nd will have a choice to make: ACC or b1g.

if nd chooses the b1g, then rut could get a call, or they could stay at 13.

if nd chooses the ACC, i say rut gets the 14th.

so again, i would not want to be storz. and if nd chooses the b1g, and they decide to stay at 13, i wouldnt want to be either 1 of rut & storz, aka tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber.

the ACC wont go to 16 just for shlitz and giggles. at least not for 20 years or so.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

lets start by getting 1 unalienable truth posted, storz will NEVER be in the b1g.

ok, now that we are clear, lets move on...

mizzou is the last finger in the damn. once the SEC gets it act together and adds them we can finally be done with realignment.

the bevo9 will then have reason to go 12, they dont now. and when they go to 12, it will be wv, lville...and cincy gets itself out of the toilet it wouldve ended up in.

with the bigeast dead, nd will have a choice to make: ACC or b1g.

if nd chooses the b1g, then rut could get a call, or they could stay at 13.

if nd chooses the ACC, i say rut gets the 14th.

so again, i would not want to be storz. and if nd chooses the b1g, and they decide to stay at 13, i wouldnt want to be either 1 of rut & storz, aka tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber.

the ACC wont go to 16 just for shlitz and giggles. at least not for 20 years or so.

agree and the question is how much damage will be done when these two programs storz and rutgers are left twisting in the wind in conference USA. hopefully 2-3 years and Syracuse can capitalize, was talking to a coach during the Rutgers game from downstate, friend of a friend, he stated that it's already out there as UCONN/ Rutgers/ SU are pretty much recruit a lot of the same kids. I know people will deny it, this and that but Syracuse has a leg up right now

 

[Townie72]

agree and the question is how much damage will be done when these two programs storz and rutgers are left twisting in the wind in conference USA. hopefully 2-3 years and Syracuse can capitalize, was talking to a coach during the Rutgers game from downstate, friend of a friend, he stated that it's already out there as UCONN/ Rutgers/ SU are pretty much recruit a lot of the same kids. I know people will deny it, this and that but Syracuse has a leg up right now

It amy take a while for this to sink in, but SU should have a huge advantage.

Much of the RU "success" (if you can call it that) has been based on Shady selling a vision which included a National Championship. Even t he most gullible of recruits will have to wonder how you get to a National Championship from C-USA II.

The one thing I think Crouthamel had right was when he warned people about the "fragility" of these programs.

Somehow football programs become seen as "heading up" and others are seen as "heading down". Recruits, the parents of recruits and even their coaches are attracted to programs that are headed upwards.

I'm not sure how much being in the ACC will help SU. Just how positive will recruits be towards playing in a conference with all these Southern schools? How will the fan base react?

But Rutgers and UConn could be seen as having a problem and heading down. At least many in their fan bases must feel that way judging from the hysteria we hear. And if their fan bases feel that way, so will others. Suing and claiming "irreparable damage" wouldn't help.

For those of you who see humor in this type of thing, standby for the about-faces you are about to hear from the schools that have been begging the ACC and anyone else for an escape hatch as they shift to the New New Big East being the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Shortest and easiest path to the BCS", they'll proclaim.
"We didn't like Syracuse and Pitt anyway", you'll hear.

Spinmeisters have no shame. It's going to be a hoot.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It amy take a while for this to sink in, but SU should have a huge advantage.

Much of the RU "success" (if you can call it that) has been based on Shady selling a vision which included a National Championship. Even t he most gullible of recruits will have to wonder how you get to a National Championship from C-USA II.

The one thing I think Crouthamel had right was when he warned people about the "fragility" of these programs.

Somehow football programs become seen as "heading up" and others are seen as "heading down". Recruits, the parents of recruits and even their coaches are attracted to programs that are headed upwards.

I'm not sure how much being in the ACC will help SU. Just how positive will recruits be towards playing in a conference with all these Southern schools? How will the fan base react?

But Rutgers and UConn could be seen as having a problem and heading down. At least many in their fan bases must feel that way judging from the hysteria we hear. And if their fan bases feel that way, so will others. Suing and claiming "irreparable damage" wouldn't help.

For those of you who see humor in this type of thing, standby for the about-faces you are about to hear from the schools that have been begging the ACC and anyone else for an escape hatch as they shift to the New New Big East being the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Shortest and easiest path to the BCS", they'll proclaim.
"We didn't like Syracuse and Pitt anyway", you'll hear.

Spinmeisters have no shame. It's going to be a hoot.

To me it's just a question of how far you need to go down 81 to where it will make a difference to these kids.. That is the question, my guess is somewhere near Harrisburg, PA. Marrone will do his damage in the NY/ LI and in New York regardless.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

The fan bases of the Left Behinds haven't reached the point of acceptance yet. Visit the boards for other schools and you can feel it coming, however. Until the Big East raises exit fees and actually starts adding schools many fans will hold out hope, but the day is soon approaching when hope dies.