Which player would you prefer on your SU team?

[stuckinbig11]

Dirty was a shooter, and only a shooter.

Totally unfair. Did you ever watch Southerland on defense? His long arms were everywhere.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Exactly. People are still pissed he left. Love James but its not even close as to who is the better overall player. Donte's one and only year he was given the green light by JB to put it up since there was little else.


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I liked the kid and was never pissed that he left. It has been a few years, but I can't remember a lot about his game that impressed me.

 

[Gabjon]

Why the lol? You asked who was the better talent. Not who had more basketball skills. Hak didn't have a lot of pure skills. But he had some unique skills that made him a very good college player and attractive to the NBA. There were a couple things he could do that few could. But as a shooter, ball handler or passer? Not a lot there. So I still say Hak to your question.


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So hak had more talent but donte had more skilled, yet donte was taller bigger and younger! You comparing a 4 year player vs a one and done. If you compare freshmen Hak to freshmen donte it is and "Lol" comparison.

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[MikeSU02]

The Donte v. James one is easy - Donte by a mile.

Ask yourself this, if we traded this year's James straight up to the team that Donte was on, how do those teams change?

Also, can you imagine if Donte got to only be a sixth man and a heat check guy rather than trying to shoulder a whole team?

Flynn v. MCW is tougher and would depend on the makeup of the team. I'd probably give the edge to MCW just due to his height at the top of the zone and the long arms to fill passing lanes, but Jonny was a pit bull out there and wasn't scared of anyone.

 

[OttoMets]

The Donte v. James one is easy - Donte by a mile.

Ask yourself this, if we traded this year's James straight up to the team that Donte was on, how do those teams change?

Also, can you imagine if Donte got to only be a sixth man and a heat check guy rather than trying to shoulder a whole team?

Flynn v. MCW is tougher and would depend on the makeup of the team. I'd probably give the edge to MCW just due to his height at the top of the zone and the long arms to fill passing lanes, but Jonny was a pit bull out there and wasn't scared of anyone.

OK, now that's a point that makes me rethink my position. Swap in James and that 2008 team looks really bad. Though I feel the same way about making that swap on the 2013 team, too.

I don't get this spacing the floor business. Donte started 35 games alongside a point guard who shot around 35% from 3. He spent 9+ with Devendorf, who shot ~41%, 10 with Scoop, who shot like he was attempting a soccer throw-in, but then 15 more along Harris, who shot about 32%. That's not a backcourt of Matt Roes, but wasn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight. South had two guards who couldn't get out of the 20s. He had the more difficult go of it in terms of spacing and reliance on his teammates and still shot a higher percentage from the floor and from 3.

 

[jordoo]

The Donte v. James one is easy - Donte by a mile.

Ask yourself this, if we traded this year's James straight up to the team that Donte was on, how do those teams change?

Also, can you imagine if Donte got to only be a sixth man and a heat check guy rather than trying to shoulder a whole team?

Flynn v. MCW is tougher and would depend on the makeup of the team. I'd probably give the edge to MCW just due to his height at the top of the zone and the long arms to fill passing lanes, but Jonny was a pit bull out there and wasn't scared of anyone.

Perhaps the best post as far as simplifying the Southy Greene arguement . . . . . which of course there shouldn't be.

Also agree with MCW and Flynn. If your team lacks offensive initiators you tacke Jonny if not you take MCW the defensive stopper and facilitator.

P.S. the DYnasty we may have all hated it but we are one quad pull and one dude going to class away from dynasty for the last hand full of seasons. So in retrospect had those two who started dynasty stayed 2 and 3 years a peice respectively and we didn't suffer some personel losses we could be looking at . . . . at worst: 3 FF in the last 4 years

 

[jordoo]

OK, now that's a point that makes me rethink my position. Swap in James and that 2008 team looks really bad. Though I feel the same way about making that swap on the 2013 team, too.

I don't get this spacing the floor business. Donte started 35 games alongside a point guard who shot around 35% from 3. He spent 9+ with Devendorf, who shot ~41%, 10 with Scoop, who shot like he was attempting a soccer throw-in, but then 15 more along Harris, who shot about 32%. That's not a backcourt of Matt Roes, but wasn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight. South had two guards who couldn't get out of the 20s. He had the more difficult go of it in terms of spacing and reliance on his teammates and still shot a higher percentage from the floor and from 3.

Here is all you need to get, a senior James didn't stat last year a freshman Donte would have. Case closed NC #2 delivered.

 

[Eric15]

Not even close between Donte and James. Donte is a much better all-around player. James was not a good defender, and was a horrible rebounder for his size and athletic ability.

Donte would have stayed if not for family pressure. He really enjoyed SU and the college atmosphere (he's a lot like Rak in that respect) He'd be a much better player today if he didn't go early and ride the bench.

MCW vs Flynn is a good one. I'd take healthy Jonny by a nose (but MCW is a much better fit for the NBA) because of what he could do to college point guards.

100% agree with all this.

 

[OttoMets]

Here is all you need to get, a senior James didn't stat last year a freshman Donte would have. Case closed NC #2 delivered.

Nah, you can't claim that.

You've got me on the gut-feeling "Hmm, 2008 would have been worse with South instead of Donte," but the whole starting honor is dependent on a lot of different things. And it's not necessarily indicative of talent, either: remember Dion over Triche.

 

[OttoMets]

100% agree with all this.

But Southerland was a terrific defender. And he played primarily at the 3, so "horrible rebounder" doesn't fit, either.

 

[jordoo]

Nah, you can't claim that.

You've got me on the gut-feeling "Hmm, 2008 would have been worse with South instead of Donte," but the whole starting honor is dependent on a lot of different things. And it's not necessarily indicative of talent, either: remember Dion over Triche.

I agree that starting isn't the end game measurement but no way does Donte's not start his whle career here while James never did. That is a huge difference! Huge! Last year give me a versitle Donte with the rest of that teama nd the defense they brought and perhaps we make it all the way since it was offense that cost us in the end particularly the lack of it from James and MCW in that FF game against Michigan.

 

[jordoo]

But Southerland was a terrific defender. And he played primarily at the 3, so "horrible rebounder" doesn't fit, either.

I have to agree that Southy was a very giid defender in our system especially as a Junior and Senior! VEry disruptive and an above average weak side shot blocker. Rebounding was something I always felt he struggled with but he was at least respectable as a senior however I did feel he should have been even better though he rarely hurt us last year as a rebounder.

 

[rrlbees]

But Southerland was a terrific defender. And he played primarily at the 3, so "horrible rebounder" doesn't fit, either.

I don't think James was a terrific defender. He was long and that helped in the zone but he was very poor at using his feet and got beat a lot off the dribble. I did love him in the press guarding the inbounds man.


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[cto]

Late to the party here... but here's my two cents. Donte was on a horrid team. There was no one else. He had the green light (which most folks here hated him for). He was a frigging freshman! With no supporting cast. If he had stayed (which he did not do because of seriously bad family circumstances), he would have been one of the best Orangemen ever. And he loved SU as much as anyone who ever played here (e.g, all the times he's come back). Let's hear a little love for Donte.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Late to the party here... but here's my two cents. Donte was on a horrid team. There was no one else. He had the green light (which most folks here hated him for). He was a frigging freshman! With no supporting cast. If he had stayed (which he decided not to do because of seriously bad family circumstances), he would have been one of the best Orangemen ever. And he loved SU as much as anyone who ever played here (e.g, all the times he's come back). Let's hear a little love for Donte.

You can have a green light and not have piss poor shot selection though

 

[jordoo]

Late to the party here... but here's my two cents. Donte was on a horrid team. There was no one else. He had the green light (which most folks here hated him for). He was a frigging freshman! With no supporting cast. If he had stayed (which he decided not to do because of seriously bad family circumstances), he would have been one of the best Orangemen ever. And he loved SU as much as anyone who ever played here (e.g, all the times he's come back). Let's hear a little love for Donte.

I myself love Donte and thus am overly defenive of him but the facts are the facts we had no returning experience in BE play that season! Agreed 10 fold that he loved SU and often returns. What else do you want people?

 

[jordoo]

You can have a green light and not have piss poor shot selection though

Even with that in retrospect I'd say only 1-2 a game (MAX) would you prefer Jonny, Scoop, kOng, Ricky, AO or Paul taking. . . . . . . . . . because that was your team.

 

[jordoo]

BTW that club I'm pimping in my avatar is still up and running 1964 model well before my time. Hit her pure and she's the best there is around but when you hit them hard you better know how to do so

Edit: Doubt CTO will like this post but I still love her and her stories especially.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Neither demonstrated a handle at any point. No advantage for either player.

Greene had a better handle but it wasn't very solid. Donte had a more versatile game. Not even a question. James chucked without any dribbles and got transition stuff. Even if James had a JB green light he didn't have as good an offensive arsenal as a senior like Donte did as a freshman. 18/7 is pretty solid. No way James could get that.

 

[cuseattle]

Dirty. Because he cared, got better as he invested in the program.
I have a big soft spot for the four year guys.

 

[Flacusian]

Donte was a better overall talent but on defense Dirty could clear out an entire side of the court simply by relaxing one muscle.

 

[gilardino]

is Donte a better player than James? Yes, however James is a better player for Syracuse. James a better for our system. MCW and Flynn, MCW for one reason, better defender.

 

[orangefan13]

Donte because he could shoot off a dribble or two, and you didn't expect him to have a game where he couldn't find his shot. Consistancy and shooting in motion has more chance to win in march.

MCW by a nose. Only because he had a better floater in the lane. I think Johnny was slightly better at getting by his man though. Give me Gerry at PG over them both with the right isolation players and drivers around him and two real solid defensive guards next to him. I love flashy pgs, but sometimes PG's that can pull up off the dribble are just as good. Gerry was less likely then either to hit a scoring wall in march.

 

[Trueblue25]

Green easily. With any talent similar to what Southerland enjoyed his 4 years at SU, Green would've brought us a Championship.

 

[SBU72]

Can't find anything more up to date than this



Now, you might consider that a little misleading, since that includes guys who have been drafted and then sent there as kind of like a farm system thing, as opposed to working their way up through the D-league. The guy who was probably the most famous NBA player on the planet for a few months at the beginning of last year spent some time in the D-league, for whatever that is worth.

I seem to remember now the 23% number which is pretty good. And I would expect it to be heavy with the drafted players. As we all know, many, many guys are drafted on expectations of talent and if they can't out perform the current roster, then D-league sounds like a viable alternative. For some reason, I had this feeling that it was more like some of the old pro leagues were guys went to earn a pay check. However, when people say that guys should go D-league rather than college because they will get better training, I think that is over stating it because if only 1 in 4 get to the majors and most are draftees, then D-league isn't doing extensive development but more of polishing talent.