Whisper Behind the Curtain: As the ACC turns under the covers...

[kingtidge]

Did it make the BE look stronger? Granted, I have a bias, but a league that is forced to capitulate and accept ND without football appears weaker than the conferences (B1G, ACC) that told them "no".

Stronger?

Not really... More unstable? Yes.

You already have a dysfunctional split in the conference between b-ball only schools and both-sport schools...

Then, you let ND - a b-ball only school, also have voting and decision making power on Football issues.

Soooo stooopid of the Big East... and a primary reason why we, PITT and WVU decided to jump ship...

 

[orangebabe]

I'm in the minority, but I'd be fine with nd as a partial member.

I agree, just don't let them participate in any football-related decisions or revenue.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Forget the rumblings. There is NO WAY that Notre Dame's alumni and donors want them playing the teams from the Big 12, except for maybe Texas. The rest of them are farmer schools with little academic prestige, that sit in the middle of nowhere.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Big 12 (aka Dust Bowl Conference) is a terrible cultural and academic fit for Notre Dame. I just can't get past the notion that ND would stick the shiv in Marquette, DePaul, Villanova and Georgetown and their other fellow Catholic colleagues in order to play basketball against a bunch of academically mediocre state schools located in the Baptist Belt. Sure you get to play Texas and Oklahoma once in a while, but if you are Notre Dame and you want to do that you can do it anyway (as they are).

 

[Janner]

Personally, I think that if there is a way to work out a situation where ND plays a number of football games against ACC teams, AND their addition of olympic sports is revenue neutral or better at worst (basically basketball revenue covers any expenses to the league for other sports, travel, ect) then it is worth it. Perception is reality, this strengthens the league, builds interest in major east coast cities, and makes sure the B12 and B1G do not secure ND in the future. But this is from the view point of a Syracuse fan not a Clemson or NC St, or UNC fan who might not be too happy if ND steals a bowl spot of there's at some point in the future

 

[HtownOrange]

It's worth bringing in ND in all sports except football just to stick it to the Bevo 12. They can perceive whatever they want, then.

 

[All4SU]

It's worth bringing in ND in all sports except football just to stick it to the Bevo 12. They can perceive whatever they want, then.

No it's not. Ask yourself, would the B10 bring ND in for everything except football? The answer, of course, is no. Nor should the ACC. Hold firm.

 

[SU2NASA]

Forget the rumblings. There is NO WAY that Notre Dame's alumni and donors want them playing the teams from the Big 12, except for maybe Texas. The rest of them are farmer schools with little academic prestige, that sit in the middle of nowhere.

Don't underestimate the value of pleasing the Notre Dame Alumni Club of Waco.

 

[SU2NASA]

No it's not. Ask yourself, would the B10 bring ND in for everything except football? The answer, of course, is no. Nor should the ACC. Hold firm.

This same board was consistently up in arms about Notre Dame's sweetheart deal with the Big East and now people want to bring it to the ACC?

 

[Toga]

Let them in as a partial and then in five years they can head up the committee that revisits the ESPN contract at the look-in. No - wait ...

 

[BlazeOrange]

I would be OK with bringing ND as a partial member if there was a set time limit until their membership was re-evaluated. Say five years or until their current TV deal expires (or their next one, provided they set it up for a reasonable timeframe). If possible, get them to play a FB game or preferably two per season vs. ACC teams. No bowl alliance where they would take an ACC spot - I'd be OK with establishing a bowl agreement where they play against an ACC team though.

At the end of the agreement, they should have played everyone in the conference at least once. By that time the national championship issue will no longer be in flux, and they can determine the benefit of aligning football with a conference. Hopefully conference expansions will have settled by then and the ACC can give an all-in or all-out ultimatum, if desired. Or they could expand/modify the agreement if it turned out well even without full-time FB.

 

[HtownOrange]

No it's not. Ask yourself, would the B10 bring ND in for everything except football? The answer, of course, is no. Nor should the ACC. Hold firm.

Though I prefer ND all in, I would accept them just to blacken the eye of the Bevo 12. I have no other reason for wanting ND unless they are all in.

I'm not opposed to the hybrid concept, but the football schools must always have final say. Having 2-4 hoops teams to shore up markets and bring intersting rivalries as well as conference depth is a good thing. I don't see it happening anytime soon unless the B1G sees a profit and does so for their network.

 

[All4SU]

Though I prefer ND all in, I would accept them just to blacken the eye of the Bevo 12. I have no other reason for wanting ND unless they are all in.

I'm not opposed to the hybrid concept, but the football schools must always have final say. Having 2-4 hoops teams to shore up markets and bring intersting rivalries as well as conference depth is a good thing. I don't see it happening anytime soon unless the B1G sees a profit and does so for their network.

I guess my point is that taking ND as a partial doesn't do anything to the Bevo12, because ND is not seriously even considering taking their games to that conference.

 

[texasorange]

The ACC's position on ND should be to remain cordial, keep the lines of communication open, and let them know you're interested in them as a full member. Demonstrate the logic and financial benefits. Beyond that, don't do them any favors without getting something of equal value in return. Don't make it difficult for them, but don't make it easy for them to remain an independent either.

My preferred approach also.

 

[jerrycuse]

I don't like the partial membership and I think any talk of starting to add BBall onlies is just nuts. We just got out of a crazy relationship and found a nice new stable partner. Why would we want to go back and make it crazy? I am sure psychologists have a term for this.

I like ND and UConn to get to 16. Then go into pods of four with ND being in the north with Syracuse, UConn and BC. As a sweetner, offer them some games at Meadowlands (Cuse/UConn) or Foxboro (UConn/BC) instead of on campus. Each school rotates home games (one home, one at neutral). Yes, the schools would be giving up home conference games but it is something to make it work. Syracuse also WANTS to play at the Meadowlands so it may not be much of a sacrafice. Or make UConn do it as a condition or entry. Pretty sure they would do just about anything.

Not sure if that is enough sweetner. Pods also need a 9-game schedule (play everyone in your pod every year, and rotate the rest of the conference every other year). The other good thing is it would stagger their other road games up and down the east coast each year (one against the mid-atlantic pod, one againt the NC pod and one against the south pod).

As an added bonus, I think this would be a perk for FSU and Clemson. They would be in a south pod along with GaTech and Miami. That gaurantees games aginst their regional rivals and less 'traveling north'. If I undertsood correctly, one thing that came out of the B12 talk was them wanting to play the local, southern schools as much as possible (not sure how moving to the B12 would help in this case though...).

Still a long shot to get ND, but I think the ACC has to stand firm. Don't give away too much to get them. If ND has to choose a conference, I still think they like the ACC best (similar schools and east coast presence).

 

[Phillymoose]

I would be OK with bringing ND as a partial member if there was a set time limit until their membership was re-evaluated. Say five years or until their current TV deal expires (or their next one, provided they set it up for a reasonable timeframe). If possible, get them to play a FB game or preferably two per season vs. ACC teams. No bowl alliance where they would take an ACC spot - I'd be OK with establishing a bowl agreement where they play against an ACC team though.

At the end of the agreement, they should have played everyone in the conference at least once. By that time the national championship issue will no longer be in flux, and they can determine the benefit of aligning football with a conference. Hopefully conference expansions will have settled by then and the ACC can give an all-in or all-out ultimatum, if desired. Or they could expand/modify the agreement if it turned out well even without full-time FB.

If you bring them in as a partial member, they are right there chatting with you every day. You have a different kind of access to them and their thinking. It didn't help the BE, but times are always changing. Before the first raid, the BE was more attractive, but ND was also much stronger on the field. In the intervening time, the conferences have gotten stronger and ND has gotten weaker. They still have an awesome following, but unless they start performing as a legitimate NC contender, ND's influence is going to continue to atrophy. In other words, I suspect they are on a path towards full conference membership at some point (unless they somehow turn it around on the field - in dramatic fashion), and you might as well put yourself in a position to take them - - and make that transition easier for the participants and fans.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Personally, I think that if there is a way to work out a situation where ND plays a number of football games against ACC teams, AND their addition of olympic sports is revenue neutral or better at worst (basically basketball revenue covers any expenses to the league for other sports, travel, ect) then it is worth it. Perception is reality, this strengthens the league, builds interest in major east coast cities, and makes sure the B12 and B1G do not secure ND in the future. But this is from the view point of a Syracuse fan not a Clemson or NC St, or UNC fan who might not be too happy if ND steals a bowl spot of there's at some point in the future

No, I'm sorry, it doesn't strengthen the ACC at all to add ND as a partial member. There is NO benefit to the ACC. They don't need ND to make the their basketball better, or their lacrosse better, or their women's sports better. They don't need ND for the academic prestige factor. They really don't even need them for football, if Florida State and Miami just got back to where they used to be.

ND is a parasite, and they want a new host conference, now that the Big East looks like a steaming pile of poo.

 

[Ozcuse]

No, I'm sorry, it doesn't strengthen the ACC at all to add ND as a partial member. There is NO benefit to the ACC. They don't need ND to make the their basketball better, or their lacrosse better, or their women's sports better. They don't need ND for the academic prestige factor. They really don't even need them for football, if Florida State and Miami just got back to where they used to be.

ND is a parasite, and they want a new host conference, now that the Big East looks like a steaming pile of poo.

Does it strengthen the ACC if ND aligns with the Big 12, leaves the ACC without a strong partner/conference with a bowl tie-in, and is the straw that breaks the camel's back for teams such as FSU, Clemson, and VT to formally announce intentions to evaluate other conferences?

If internet speculation is correct and not just a bunch of bloggers trying to create a name for themselves (a strong possibility) then the teams that you mention needing to get back to where they used to be could be out the door like we were last fall.

I think you forget the reason the Big East is a steaming pile of poo right now is that SU, Pitt, and WVU left. Is it inconceivable that some of our soon-to-be conference brethren are contemplating the same thing? And that the fate of ND could have an impact on that?

 

[HtownOrange]

I guess my point is that taking ND as a partial doesn't do anything to the Bevo12, because ND is not seriously even considering taking their games to that conference.

The Bevo 12 needs ND to fly cover, provide fire power for them. With UT and OU at the top and the little 8, and the PAC unable to expand without schools from the Bevo 12, the Bevo 12 is unstable and will remain so. ND gives the impression of stability. The Bevo 12 has been pursuing ND for a couple of years and has been rebuffed each time.

As for ND in the ACC, I really only want them all-in. I would take them partial just to keep the Bevo 12 from getting them. I agree that as a partial, they do not do anything for the ACC other than keep ND away from the Bevo 12. Living in Texas I see that ND is far more important to the Bevo 12 than to any other confernce, even the Big East. Maybe that's why I am more willing to see the ACC take ND as a partial, I'm tired of the Bevo 12 drama and it's queen.

For clarity, I do not think ND to the Bevo 12 as a partial harms the ACC in anyway.

 

[SU2NASA]

This goes here now.

 

[Ozcuse]

The Bevo 12 needs ND to fly cover, provide fire power for them. With UT and OU at the top and the little 8, and the PAC unable to expand without schools from the Bevo 12, the Bevo 12 is unstable and will remain so. ND gives the impression of stability. The Bevo 12 has been pursuing ND for a couple of years and has been rebuffed each time.

As for ND in the ACC, I really only want them all-in. I would take them partial just to keep the Bevo 12 from getting them. I agree that as a partial, they do not do anything for the ACC other than keep ND away from the Bevo 12. Living in Texas I see that ND is far more important to the Bevo 12 than to any other confernce, even the Big East. Maybe that's why I am more willing to see the ACC take ND as a partial, I'm tired of the Bevo 12 drama and it's queen.

For clarity, I do not think ND to the Bevo 12 as a partial harms the ACC in anyway.

I see it harming the ACC in at least two ways.

1) Perception is reality. Big 12 has some momentum going right now with their announced tv deal with Fox Sports, their Grant of Rights, New Year's Bowl agreement with the SEC, and the additions of TCU and WVU. If they were able to get ND, they keep momentum and perception going in their favor. This could further strain the relationship between the ACC and the schools that may be looking for greener pastures.

2) Removes ND as a potential partner/bargaining chip for a lucrative New Year's Day bowl. The Big Ten and the Pac 12 are in bed together (Rose Bowl) and now the Big 12 and SEC are in bed together. Who does that leave the ACC with? The Big East? Yuck. If not the Big East, then you have to start talking about the #1 ACC vs. #2 from another conference. That alone shows weakness.

One thing is for sure, we've come a long way from thinking the Big 12 was dead. For awhile I was wondering what schools the Big East was going to be able to poach from the Big 12. Now I'm wondering if the ACC is safe from getting poached themselves.

 

[44PRIDE]

This is the exact same argument the Big East had when allowing ND in as a partial member. Oh...let them in as a partial. When they eventually join, it'll be with the Big East. Well, they never joined for football.

This same scenario would play out for the ACC. Once ND has protected their Olympic sports, they have no reason to move their football.

 

[omniorange]

This is the exact same argument the Big East had when allowing ND in as a partial member. Oh...let them in as a partial. When they eventually join, it'll be with the Big East. Well, they never joined for football.

This same scenario would play out for the ACC. Once ND has protected their Olympic sports, they have no reason to move their football.

ND will never join a conference for football to protect their olympic sports.

There is one reason, and one reason only they will do that - if they feel their pathway to a football NC is blocked (noticed the word blocked is being used, not hampered) by remaining independent.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[ImperialOrange]

I'm in the minority, but I'd be fine with nd as a partial member.

I'm with you. ND can join the ACC for football only, and send all of their other sports to cattle country.

 

[All4SU]

The Bevo 12 needs ND to fly cover, provide fire power for them. With UT and OU at the top and the little 8, and the PAC unable to expand without schools from the Bevo 12, the Bevo 12 is unstable and will remain so. ND gives the impression of stability. The Bevo 12 has been pursuing ND for a couple of years and has been rebuffed each time.

As for ND in the ACC, I really only want them all-in. I would take them partial just to keep the Bevo 12 from getting them. I agree that as a partial, they do not do anything for the ACC other than keep ND away from the Bevo 12. Living in Texas I see that ND is far more important to the Bevo 12 than to any other confernce, even the Big East. Maybe that's why I am more willing to see the ACC take ND as a partial, I'm tired of the Bevo 12 drama and it's queen.

For clarity, I do not think ND to the Bevo 12 as a partial harms the ACC in anyway.

I guess I should have been more specific. ND is not considering the B12. So there is no need to worry about it.

 

[TexanMark]

This is the exact same argument the Big East had when allowing ND in as a partial member. Oh...let them in as a partial. When they eventually join, it'll be with the Big East. Well, they never joined for football.

This same scenario would play out for the ACC. Once ND has protected their Olympic sports, they have no reason to move their football.

Well...if the BE still had Miami, VT, BC, Cuse, Pitt...it might be a different outcome. I'm all in for the ACC to take ND for a hybrid.