Who has a better opportunity than JB of getting Cuse to another National title... Common sense here

[benjams77]

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

 

[orangecuse]

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

Your first sentence speaks for itself, with your chosen words of "drivel" and "haters." Based upon your joining date, you've been around, however, apparently more in lurker capacity. Although, even as a lurker, had you been lurking with an objective eye, you'd clearly realize that drivel and haters is hardly the predominant case, with a few exceptions. But, more often, solid, objective and spirited debate about the state of the program, etc. It goes much beyond your "1st time ever" mantra. Yes, perhaps the first time of ever having a losing season...time will tell as the season plays out on that particular front.

However, the crux of the generally objective and spirited debate is how we are now, and have been for the past 8 seasons, been nothing more than a middling team in our conference. Not playing a conference game as a ranked team come January since 2014. To date, not winning more than one game in our conference tournament, yet getting to a conference semi-final, let alone a final. Being a perennial NCAA bubble team and double digit seed in the Dance. A team (still somehow receiving relatively favorable early round draws) where winning two games is the ceiling.

Furthermore, your Fulmer comparison really isn't on point. JB is 78, hardly the case with Fulmer at the time. Moreover, one thing is certain with age, degeneration and deterioration of mind and matter is inevitable.

 

[two3zone]

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

We’ve one 1 national title with Jim over almost 50 years. Nobody is saying he is a bad coach or unhappy with his record here. How many titles does UConn have?

 

[UnknownOrange]

I would like to move on from JB. I have thought it was his time to go years ago. Love what he has done for Syracuse, but it's been time.

If I'm using common sense, yes I believe there is a coach out there who would actually come here and has a better chance of making a F4/NC than a 77 year old coach. I don't have that name, but time is on the side of the unknown. JB has far less time to reach a F4/NC than most.

 

[benjams77]

Your first sentence speaks for itself, with your chosen words of "drivel" and "haters." Based upon your joining date, you've been around, however, apparently more in lurker capacity. Although, even as a lurker, had you been lurking with an objective eye, you'd clearly realize that drivel and haters is hardly the predominant case, with a few exceptions. But, more often, solid, objective and spirited debate about the state of the program, etc. It goes much beyond your "1st time ever" mantra. Yes, perhaps the first time of ever having a losing season...time will tell as the season plays out on that particular front.

However, the crux of the generally objective and spirited debate is how we are now, and have been for the past 8 seasons, been nothing more than a middling team in our conference. Not playing a conference game as a ranked team come January since 2014. To date, not winning more than one game in our conference tournament, yet getting to a conference semi-final, let alone a final. Being a perennial NCAA bubble team and double digit seed in the Dance. A team (still somehow receiving relatively favorable early round draws) where winning two games is the ceiling.

Furthermore, your Fulmer comparison really isn't on point. JB is 78, hardly the case with Fulmer at the time. Moreover, one thing is certain with age, degeneration and deterioration of mind and matter is inevitable.

LOL everyone wants to point out the amount of time people are on the board.. Likes its a badge... I have been on here enough... Its not the age with JB and Fulmer ... its the what happens when we walk thru that door.. and Im thinking we may not like it... and 1st time ever for a losing season if it comes to that cannot be debated.. Its factual.

We all are on here giving our thoughts...mine is that I can handle a little dip and a bad year yet to be completed and deal with JB till he decides to be done. He has not ruined the program nor has he taken it to the depths.. We were just the talk of the nation 1 yr ago in the NCAA tourney with some of these non athletic players... People can choose to move away from JB quicker and basically end all connections to him and his coaching tree... Im saying we will be sorry it happens.

 

[MDCuse]

Jim Boeheim will never sniff another NC, no matter how long he sticks around. People aren't "haters" they don't "hate" Jim. But fans aren't dumb. The direction of this program since joining the ACC is alarming, to put it mildly. Jim isn't going lead this program to a resurgence at 78 years old. Again, this is not a knock on Jim, but may (including myself) have thought it's been time for Jim to step away for quite some time now.

 

[Eric15]

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

The three periods at the end of every sentence reminds me of this scene from Family Guy.

 

[Oakland]

Someone else - for years JB's recruiting has not been close to enabling a NC and the recruiting trend line is down and in my opinion terminal.

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

 

[djcon57]

Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care...

ok cool. That’s where I differ with you. I do care. Mediocre regular seasons doesn’t cut it. you end up with this year and years like this year due to those mediocre seasons. You can’t continue to play against the numbers and trends. Highly seeded teams make out the vast majority of final four teams in the history of the tourney, hence, I would like us to be consistently as highly seeded as possible.

 

[orangecuse]

LOL everyone wants to point out the amount of time people are on the board.. Likes its a badge... I have been on here enough... Its not the age with JB and Fulmer ... its the what happens when we walk thru that door.. and Im thinking we may not like it... and 1st time ever for a losing season if it comes to that cannot be debated.. Its factual.

We all are on here giving our thoughts...mine is that I can handle a little dip and a bad year yet to be completed and deal with JB till he decides to be done. He has not ruined the program nor has he taken it to the depths.. We were just the talk of the nation 1 yr ago in the NCAA tourney with some of these non athletic players... People can choose to move away from JB quicker and basically end all connections to him and his coaching tree... Im saying we will be sorry it happens.

Exactly. Hence, why I began the conversation that you 'have been' around, although more in lurker capacity based upon your post count. That was all, no "badge," etc. However, even that being the case/your acknowledgement of same, you still chose to use the words "drivel" and "haters." With you being around here "enough," you indeed realize what the honest/true intent and substance of the arguments are about and has nothing to do with drivel, hate, etc.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

I think we have no chance of winning another National Title with Boeheim as our head coach. Accordingly, I think just about every other professional basketball coach offers us a better chance.

 

[kuethstheman]

I would say that JB has a better chance to do it next year but someone else would, after that. Mainly because the players we'll have were recruited for JB's system.

Maybe:
JB 0.1 %
Anyone else: 0.05%

So, yeah. He might have double the chance of any new coach.

 

[Orangezoo]

1- we just did this in about 8 other threads to be completely candid.

2- I think you are a little over the top with haters and drivel. Read some more posts with many of us who fall across the spectrum of pessimists to neutral to previous program optimists( such as myself). Right now there is a fairly common stance the answer is JB is past that point to put a roster together and coach a team to the final four. Especially without both Hop and Bernie.

3- There is a key element missing here and that is that with the realization about JB being at the point where FF and NC is not in the cards that it's about the next phase. That is finding the right coach for the program to build it back up with talent and a top 25 winning culture. From there you look to those coveted Final Fours and a shot at another NC. The timing of that is out of view right now. It could surprise and come quick but also be a process. It's about change that can take us in the direction we need to go of a winning, top brand of college hoops. So it's a bit too short term focused to be asking who is the best guy to get us to a FF, NC. Right now it's not likely JB is that guy anymore. That is ok.. for 40 years he has been that guy.

4- This may be slightly out of order but this is not about his kids and one year. Buddy has been here 4 years. The struggles predate him. Jimmy has been here 1. We have had athleticism in those years and guys who on paper were prototypical SU wings and guards. The wins weren't there, the quality of the players wasn't there and even the development was lacking. Its been slowly moving to the point we are at today. Next years class is no guarantee. There has been little buzz about our guys in their last years of Prep/HS like there would normally be with a "great class".

 

[ScriptCuse]

Ok so I get confused by all the drivel from JB haters on here... What people want...Yes its been a bad year... 1st time ever and still time to rebound... Im actually curious how the team will grow... and Im not gonna act spoiled by years of success... There has never been a sub 500 team... EVER!... Yes there has been some mediocre regular seasons in recent years... I dont care... They grinded and most times got to the tourney and made runs, including 2 fairly recent FF's.. Many of you complain about reg season record not being gaudy but also expect Title run... Its hard

My question for you is, not including settled in coaches not coming to Syracuse.. (i.e. K and Few, Self) what coaches do you actually believe in more than JB to get Cuse back to even a final four for a chance at a title... Use some common sense here... If you think Jay Wright is walking thru that door then fine but I dont... As much as I like him I don't think its Nate Oats, he's got a great team and is inconsistent this year... Is Scott Drew coming?... Nope... Just don't see names that are real that I trust over JB.

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity... Its had success and a former player will continue that as HC... They know the hardships and expectations of the job.

I just noticed on CBS sports Hot seat names list...lol... Tom Cream once won of the hottest coaching names around and Im not a fan but he's now gonna get fired again.. No sure things

I moved form NY to TN many years ago, I absolutely hate the UT Vols, but have many many friends who are passionate fans.. Alot of people here have a lot of regret about the uproar they had over Phil Fulmer and his eventual removal as HC of the football team.. He had some mediocre years and people thought it past him by.. I have seen the CRAPSHOW that has existed in UT vols football and a fans base that has become uninterested due to coaching turnover in the last 15 yrs.. I don't look forward to 15 years of that.. I look forward to a few more years of competitive games and hopeful tourney runs
I

Appreciate your POV. I think it’s much more to do with not just “one bad season” but nearing a decade of mediocrity. I think we can all agree that’s enough time to consider the game or social impact has passed him by. The worry is that kids (and indicated by many on this board) just don’t vibe well with his style of coaching and seemingly ever increasing public shaming of his players and the way they get handled on a day to day basis.

In my opinion, I think you’re probably right he has the best chance to win next year or maybe even in the next 5 years. But the thing about fans of programs is they will always outlast the people in it - what I mean by that is we’re worried about what the program looks like in years 5-10+. What sets up the program better in the long term? Who has a better chance at winning multiple championships in the next 20 years… Boeheim or another hire? THAT is the question… and one that is rightfully questioned imo.

You mention Tennessee and I think that’s a fair situation to bring up. But Boeheim is also nearing the end, either way you split it - he is no spring chicken. Also, this isn’t a couple years of mediocrity we’re talking about - They haven’t had a good basketball team from October to March in about 10 seasons now; that’s not acceptable for this program. I’d also like to bring up the amount of times programs left their stale coaches and ascended as well.

There’s no easy answer, but the question of where the program is headed is an easy question..

 

[ORANGE OATH]

I do not consider myself a "Hater", but enough is enough. JAB deserves the big sendoff / farewell tour, whatever. The trend line speaks for itself, it is time for him to gracefully step aside !
You can choose to live in denial, but things are what they are.
I will take my chances with JAB's replacement.

 

[miamicuse]

Once the boys move on we'll get back to athletic, longer players who fit our style... Cuse has a system, its JB's system...its an identity...

Why did JB get away from the system and the identity in the first place? Was it because of the boys?

 

[Sherman20]

Appreciate your POV. I think it’s much more to do with not just “one bad season” but nearing a decade of mediocrity. I think we can all agree that’s enough time to consider the game or social impact has passed him by. The worry is that kids (and indicated by many on this board) just don’t vibe well with his style of coaching and seemingly ever increasing public shaming of his players and the way they get handled on a day to day basis.

In my opinion, I think you’re probably right he has the best chance to win next year or maybe even in the next 5 years. But the thing about fans of programs is they will always outlast the people in it - what I mean by that is we’re worried about what the program looks like in years 5-10+. What sets up the program better in the long term? Who has a better chance at winning multiple championships in the next 20 years… Boeheim or another hire? THAT is the question… and one that is rightfully questioned imo.

You mention Tennessee and I think that’s a fair situation to bring up. But Boeheim is also nearing the end, either way you split it - he is no spring chicken. Also, this isn’t a couple years of mediocrity we’re talking about - They haven’t had a good basketball team from October to March in about 10 seasons now; that’s not acceptable for this program. I’d also like to bring up the amount of times programs left their stale coaches and ascended as well.

There’s no easy answer, but the question of where the program is headed is an easy question..

We were a very good basketball team in the regular season in 2013-14. #1 in the country in fact. So about 8 seasons now. Though I think the 2015-16 team was better than people gave it credit for (JB’s suspension really hurt) and that was proven when they made the Final Four, beating the Zags and Virginia along the way, winning the B4A tourney and beating Duke at Cameron.

 

[ScriptCuse]

We were a very good basketball team in the regular season in 2013-14. #1 in the country in fact. So about 8 seasons now. Though I think the 2015-16 team was better than people gave it credit for (JB’s suspension really hurt) and that was proven when they made the Final Four, beating the Zags and Virginia along the way, winning the B4A tourney and beating Duke at Cameron.

Yes, 13-14 was the last good team I could think of off the top up of my head. Agree on 15-16 team as well

 

[Briancuse]

Its not hating we all love the guy. The man is a legend. He is su bball. I look at this way would you go to a 77.year old Doctor. Would you want to be on a plane flown by a 77 year old pilot? All great careers end.

 

[PhatOrange]

There are only 14 coaches who’ve won a title since 2000 and most of them are on the way out, K, RWilliams, JB, Izzo (67) and Pitino (69). Not many other schools have even been in the FF in that same span. So as of now the list is small. But there are certainly good young and middle aged head coaches that backed by elite level resources have as good a shot as any to get Syracuse back in the conversation.

Guys like Frank Martin (South Carolina), Greg Marshall (Wichita State) and Scott Drew (Baylor), have coached teams to the Final Four in the past 7 years and would be good candidates here.

 

[Bulldog04]

If the next coach goes .500 is that any worse than where SU has been the last 8 years ?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The three periods at the end of every sentence reminds me of this scene from Family Guy.

Those aren’t periods. He has typed ellipses.





el·lip·sis
/əˈlipsis/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues.
   "it is very rare for an ellipsis to occur without a linguistic antecedent"
   • a set of dots indicating an ellipsis.

 

[two3zone]

If the next coach goes .500 is that any worse than where SU has been the last 8 years ?

Unless we’re a legitimate contender, the seasons just blend together. Was it nice to win a couple extra games last year, sure, an excuse to eat some chicken wings and gear up, did I think we had a chance to win anything? No.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Don't see it. JB is a better coach than the next guy but I think there is a 50% or higher chance that we hire someone good and its the change we desperately needed and we get to play conference games ranked again something we haven't done in 8 years or so.

I think things get worse for JB when his kids leave and that year will clearly be a year too many. But he'd just step down midseason and give it to an assistant.

I do think this group next year can return and be a very good team. As long as we don't have insane roster decision making.

 

[Arangeman]

JB isn’t trying to win a Nat’l Championship