Who has a better opportunity than JB of getting Cuse to another National title... Common sense here

[tombacuse]

Jim Boeheim will never sniff another NC, no matter how long he sticks around. People aren't "haters" they don't "hate" Jim. But fans aren't dumb. The direction of this program since joining the ACC is alarming, to put it mildly. Jim isn't going lead this program to a resurgence at 78 years old. Again, this is not a knock on Jim, but may (including myself) have thought it's been time for Jim to step away for quite some time now.

not a knock on Jim? Since 2012 there has been 6 NCAA's, 2 final fours, and 4 sweet sixteens. He's put his entire life into this team and city, yet after 50 years up there, he hasn't earned one terrible season(which isn't football type terrible). If I had to guess, you're the same guy who has calling for his job since the 80's. BTW Syracuse went to the 16 LAST YEAR,& im pretty sure he was in his seventies. Its all about march madness and I'd put our last decade up against most anyone. Why do you have no mention of our AD who came on board during this time period? I just find this Boeheim bashing ridiculous. Jim Boeheim should stay here however long he wants to coach,he has earned that right IMO & ill trust his judgement with NCAA basketball vs yours. LGO, this year isnt quite done yet.

 

[NineOneSeven]

not a knock on Jim? Since 2012 there has been 6 NCAA's, 2 final fours, and 4 sweet sixteens. He's put his entire life into this team and city, yet after 50 years up there, he hasn't earned one terrible season(which isn't football type terrible). If I had to guess, you're the same guy who has calling for his job since the 80's. BTW Syracuse went to the 16 LAST YEAR,& im pretty sure he was in his seventies. Its all about march madness and I'd put our last decade up against most anyone. Why do you have no mention of our AD who came on board during this time period? I just find this Boeheim bashing ridiculous. Jim Boeheim should stay here however long he wants to coach,he has earned that right IMO & ill trust his judgement with NCAA basketball vs yours. LGO, this year isnt quite done yet.

Well then.

 

[OrangeDW]

not a knock on Jim? Since 2012 there has been 6 NCAA's, 2 final fours, and 4 sweet sixteens. He's put his entire life into this team and city, yet after 50 years up there, he hasn't earned one terrible season(which isn't football type terrible). If I had to guess, you're the same guy who has calling for his job since the 80's. BTW Syracuse went to the 16 LAST YEAR,& im pretty sure he was in his seventies. Its all about march madness and I'd put our last decade up against most anyone. Why do you have no mention of our AD who came on board during this time period? I just find this Boeheim bashing ridiculous. Jim Boeheim should stay here however long he wants to coach,he has earned that right IMO & ill trust his judgement with NCAA basketball vs yours. LGO, this year isnt quite done yet.

Went to the sweet 16, and didn’t even look like we were playing the same sport as Houston.

We’re nowhere near winning a championship, even if we flummox a couple BS west coast teams in the first weekend of the dance every few years.

 

[Otto'd]

Jim boeheim has 1 title in 46 years. Let that sink in when you are thinking he is our best shot at a title going forward.

 

[Eric15]

BTW Syracuse went to the 16 LAST YEAR

I want to get back to a time and place where when Syracuse goes to the Sweet 16 people say "yep that's expected" as opposed to "oh look at Syracuse they're adorable as a double digit seed!"

 

[SU94]

There are only 14 coaches who’ve won a title since 2000 and most of them are on the way out, K, RWilliams, JB, Izzo (67) and Pitino (69). Not many other schools have even been in the FF in that same span. So as of now the list is small. But there are certainly good young and middle aged head coaches that backed by elite level resources have as good a shot as any to get Syracuse back in the conversation.

Guys like Frank Martin (South Carolina), Greg Marshall (Wichita State) and Scott Drew (Baylor), have coached teams to the Final Four in the past 7 years and would be good candidates here.

Frank Martin? Greg Marshall? They both have equal chances, ... tied with Geno Thorpe, Deshawn Williams and Josh Wright for 1,433,273rd place on Wildhack's list. One spot ahead of Danny Hurley.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

LOL everyone wants to point out the amount of time people are on the board.. Likes its a badge... I have been on here enough... Its not the age with JB and Fulmer ... its the what happens when we walk thru that door.. and Im thinking we may not like it... and 1st time ever for a losing season if it comes to that cannot be debated.. Its factual.

We all are on here giving our thoughts...mine is that I can handle a little dip and a bad year yet to be completed and deal with JB till he decides to be done. He has not ruined the program nor has he taken it to the depths.. We were just the talk of the nation 1 yr ago in the NCAA tourney with some of these non athletic players... People can choose to move away from JB quicker and basically end all connections to him and his coaching tree... Im saying we will be sorry it happens.

One person notes your post quantity, and you characterize it as "everyone." Some people are critical of JAB and our current situation, and you call it "drivel." You characterize everything in black and white, and us against them, which doesn't speak very well for how you process 'information.'

To answer your 'basic' question, i have a not so binary answer.

If the objective, within the logical maximum period in which JAB could continue to coach—let's say 10 years as permitted by health/sanity—is to reach a Final Four, i'd put JAB's chances at even versus the field of possible replacements. But, that's just one component of what i'm looking for. If the objective is to restore us to a consistent top 20 team within 10 years, i'd put the field above JAB. We need wholesale, systemic change to do that. The zone and one impact recruit can get you into a 'lucky final four.' I don't count that as sustained excellence, which i think should be the ultimate objective.

Your last sentence says a lot. We will be very sorry if we move away from JAB "quicker." That's a weird statement to parse. So, you recognize JAB will eventually retire and need to be replaced. But, you foresee potholes or tragedy somewhere in the few years difference between "end of this year" versus "five years from now?" What's the point of that? If we're going to suffer it, you'd prefer that we prolong this mediocrity, and then hit the rough pavement? Dragging down our brand for a handful of years more before we change, thereby making the change even more difficult, with an even steeper hill to climb? For me, this is more like a certain type of examination i should have but can't seem to force myself to get. Intellectually, i know it's better to take care of things sooner rather than later. To 'know' sooner rather than later. To deal with things actively—not just allow decline and pathology to fester.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You can make a Final Four run but you cannot win a title without talent. Since JB has no interest in bringing in top level talent at this stage of his career, he gives us a 0.0 chance of winning a title. So any HC that gives us a 1% chance is a better option when it comes to winning a title.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

not a knock on Jim? Since 2012 there has been 6 NCAA's, 2 final fours, and 4 sweet sixteens. He's put his entire life into this team and city, yet after 50 years up there, he hasn't earned one terrible season(which isn't football type terrible). If I had to guess, you're the same guy who has calling for his job since the 80's. BTW Syracuse went to the 16 LAST YEAR,& im pretty sure he was in his seventies. Its all about march madness and I'd put our last decade up against most anyone. Why do you have no mention of our AD who came on board during this time period? I just find this Boeheim bashing ridiculous. Jim Boeheim should stay here however long he wants to coach,he has earned that right IMO & ill trust his judgement with NCAA basketball vs yours. LGO, this year isnt quite done yet.

But, it's not.
You could go unchallenged if you said it was all about the National Championship, but you didn't.
March madness is just one component of a season. And how a performance in the tournament helps to build or sustain a program is debatable, and open to interpretation by both fans and recruits who become a part of the program and build and sustain it.

As i keep saying, being on the bubble for three months is a negative toward recruiting. Being "last in," and then beating South by Southwest Cactus Tech and Directional Dakota before losing to State U might be a fun ride for people who have umpteen orange t-shirts in their top drawer, but it means whoopdidamndoo to a top 25 high schooler. So, we get a kid ranked 75 and we say he's underrated because he comes from Canageria, and so the scoutniks haven't seen him... and wash, rinse, repeat, we're on the bubble for three months and then have to take a kid ranked 85, but he's a high-riser and he's from Cameroonada, and hasn't been seen by the recruitniks, but he's a one-and-doner fer sure...

 

[MDCuse]

not a knock on Jim? Since 2012 there has been 6 NCAA's, 2 final fours, and 4 sweet sixteens. He's put his entire life into this team and city, yet after 50 years up there, he hasn't earned one terrible season(which isn't football type terrible). If I had to guess, you're the same guy who has calling for his job since the 80's. BTW Syracuse went to the 16 LAST YEAR,& im pretty sure he was in his seventies. Its all about march madness and I'd put our last decade up against most anyone. Why do you have no mention of our AD who came on board during this time period? I just find this Boeheim bashing ridiculous. Jim Boeheim should stay here however long he wants to coach,he has earned that right IMO & ill trust his judgement with NCAA basketball vs yours. LGO, this year isnt quite done yet.

El. Oh. El.

 

[MDCuse]

But, it's not.
You could go unchallenged if you said it was all about the National Championship, but you didn't.
March madness is just one component of a season. And how a performance in the tournament helps to build or sustain a program is debatable, and open to interpretation by both fans and recruits who become a part of the program and build and sustain it.

As i keep saying, being on the bubble for three months is a negative toward recruiting. Being "last in," and then beating South by Southwest Cactus Tech and Directional Dakota before losing to State U might be a fun ride for people who have umpteen orange t-shirts in their top drawer, but it means whoopdidamndoo to a top 25 high schooler. So, we get a kid ranked 75 and we say he's underrated because he comes from Canageria, and so the scoutniks haven't seen him... and wash, rinse, repeat, we're on the bubble for three months and then have to take a kid ranked 85, but he's a high-riser and he's from Cameroonada, and hasn't been seen by the recruitniks, but he's a one-and-doner fer sure...

Wait, so 2 wins against SDSU & WVU aren't the end-all, be-all?!?

 

[MSOrange]

I want to get back to a time and place where when Syracuse goes to the Sweet 16 people say "yep that's expected" as opposed to "oh look at Syracuse they're adorable as a double digit seed!"

 

[Ozone!]

Interesting question. Coach K has the 2nd most in NCAA history (5) with some of the highest paid NBA bound players. In a hypothetical where we could bring in a comparable skilled recruiter and coach that we could afford there are no guarantees of any NC’s.

There are too many variables; having said that, let’s see who folks come up with.

 

[Otto'd]

Frank Martin? Greg Marshall? They both have equal chances, ... tied with Geno Thorpe, Deshawn Williams and Josh Wright for 1,433,273rd place on Wildhack's list. One spot ahead of Danny Hurley.

As nuts and as distasteful as he is, that’s a good young coach who stepped up a college coaching ladder having success on every rung. We’d love him here.

I’m old and a hockey fan so this analogy won’t ring for many , but remember Ken “ the rat”Linesman? Played for flyers and bruins,among others. Most hated player in NHL in his era. Dirty, cheap shot artist. Except when he was on your team. Then you loved him.

 

[Lord Ashby]

There are only 14 coaches who’ve won a title since 2000 and most of them are on the way out, K, RWilliams, JB, Izzo (67) and Pitino (69). Not many other schools have even been in the FF in that same span. So as of now the list is small. But there are certainly good young and middle aged head coaches that backed by elite level resources have as good a shot as any to get Syracuse back in the conversation.

Guys like Frank Martin (South Carolina), Greg Marshall (Wichita State) and Scott Drew (Baylor), have coached teams to the Final Four in the past 7 years and would be good candidates here.

Frank Martin and Gregg Marshall lol. Both have major temper issues and Marshall was booted from Wichita St. because of it. That style is not welcomed anywhere these days.

 

[Manleymen]

It is troubling to see a player yanked for one bad play and humiliated publicly by JB as the player approaches the bench. This happens on virtually every play. Yet two of the players make mistake after mistake during the game and never are benched and rarely if ever excoriated like the other players. It give the impression the coach plays favorites and has his pets. To win a national championship you need top level recruits. If I'm a recruit on a visit or watching it on television I am troubled by that and would likely select another school. We need top recruits AND athleticism to play the 2-3 and compete for a league championship and NCAAA title.

 

[OrangeDW]

As nuts and as distasteful as he is, that’s a good young coach who stepped up a college coaching ladder having success on every rung. We’d love him here.

I’m old and a hockey fan so this analogy won’t ring for many , but remember Ken “ the rat”Linesman? Played for flyers and bruins,among others. Most hated player in NHL in his era. Dirty, cheap shot artist. Except when he was on your team. Then you loved him.

His “success” is basically what we’re tired of Boeheim doing in recent years: winning 60% of his games.

That’s fine for modern day UConn, I’m sure.

Hasn’t done a thing in the postseason either.

 

[OrangeDW]

It is troubling to see a player yanked for one bad play and humiliated publicly by JB as the player approaches the bench. This happens on virtually every play. Yet two of the players make mistake after mistake during the game and never are benched and rarely if ever excoriated like the other players. It give the impression the coach plays favorites and has his pets. To win a national championship you need top level recruits. If I'm a recruit on a visit or watching it on television I am troubled by that and would likely select another school. We need top recruits AND athleticism to play the 2-3 and compete for a league championship and NCAAA title.

Or your good players to stick around. The Villanova or UNC formula. We haven’t done well in this area at all.

 

[chugg21]

Or your good players to stick around. The Villanova or UNC formula. We haven’t done well in this area at all.

While watching Andre Jackson last night I let myself think about what it would be like with him and Swider on the wings and Kadary and Buddy up top. It made me sad because that lineup with Joe's shooting coming off the bench or even starting and getting 20 mins at the point and 6 or so at the 2 sure seems like a top 20 team to me.

 

[721Comstock]

While watching Andre Jackson last night I let myself think about what it would be like with him and Swider on the wings and Kadary and Buddy up top. It made me sad because that lineup with Joe's shooting coming off the bench or even starting and getting 20 mins at the point and 6 or so at the 2 sure seems like a top 20 team to me.

There is NO alt universe where we have Andre AND Kadary.

None.

Andre was a heavy Cuse lean (considered by some nearly a lock), until Hurley offered him the package deal of him and his little brother.

Meanwhile, Kadary was a heavy UConn lean, who we then flipped after they landed Dre.

If we kept Andre, Kadary stays w UConn.

 

[chugg21]

There is NO alt universe where we have Andre AND Kadary.

None.

Andre was a heavy Cuse lean (considered by some nearly a lock), until Hurley offered him the package deal of him and his little brother.

Meanwhile, Kadary was a heavy UConn lean, who we then flipped after they landed Dre.

If we kept Andre, Kadary stays w UConn.

Let me be. I needed to dream after watching whatever mess that was on Monday night.

 

[SoBristol]

JB will retire and get a big celebration for his accomplishments.

And then we will see if his successor can recruit elite athletes, run a system that fans will love with no complaining, manage the clock to close out games, develop players, press as needed to turn games around. We have seen how that works in football — when we change head coaches, or coordinators, or assistants — and fans are always happy with the new guys. Until they aren’t.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

JB will retire and get a big celebration for his accomplishments.

And then we will see if his successor can recruit elite athletes, run a system that fans will love with no complaining, manage the clock to close out games, develop players, press as needed to turn games around. We have seen how that works in football — when we change head coaches, or coordinators, or assistants — and fans are always happy with the new guys. Until they aren’t.

The next coach is not going to be as good as JB.

I think someone can come in and inject some life into the program immediately with some top recruits. Hopefully we don't mess around and just hire Nate Oats.

 

[two3zone]

The next coach is not going to be as good as JB.

I think someone can come in and inject some life into the program immediately with some top recruits. Hopefully we don't mess around and just hire Nate Oats.

So we shouldn’t expect one title in the next 50 years?

 

[Newhouser]

I agree there is no coach under the age of 77 who could bring our program success. These doomsday scenarios post JB are why the program is stale.