Why can't Carey play through one mistake?

CaptainJ

Boeheimian Rhapsody
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
7,976
Like
9,019
I see good points coming from many different angles on this. I just wish there had been less bashing of players and each other on here today.

As much as I want to hope JB is trying to beat some bad habits out of JC to help his future success, I do pause to wonder if this may be turning off a number of recruits who watch, and/or listen to people who do.

One observation I made earlier while checking out his presser, is that immediately when Donna used the word "leash", I sensed a visceral reaction in JB as if his emotions didnt allow him to process the rest of her question in a regular manner. Maybe I'll watch again to see if it still seems the same way.

My personal hope is that JB will end this discussion by finding a way to get more playing time for Jalen, and/or find a way to get Frank out of his funk with the help of other staff members, or even people like Tony Robbins(maybe the boosters could chip in?). I dont know.

We mostly discuss game results, but from the pressers this season, I hear a lot about practice. Maybe it's possible that Frank has done more of the right things in practice than Jalen has, to put it mildly, and that factors in with his seniority. At least when Fab got Boeheimed, he got back in the game, right?

Am I the only one here who doesn't see any clear winners in this debate?
 

phil77

All Conference
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
3,508
Like
3,706
very true, carey's sample size is small
but jb's is not

JB has mishandled players before and will again all coaches do it even hall of fame coaches. I am not slamming JB for his use or lack there of with Carey just pointing out it hard to judge someoen when they play for 2 minutes commit 1 turnover and get pulled. I did hate the comment JB made about couldn't leave JC out there because his teammates let him down (paraphrasing) but why not take his teammates out then? If it isn't his fault why the quick hook then?

I for one don't care who plays as long as Syracuse wins. If Carey needs to play 30 mintues then cool if Carey needs to play 0 then cool. I just want Ws.
 

Jzsshuttles

Walk On
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
192
Like
459
Ok if he is a freshmen, that’s ok to feel like that but do not recruit top 300 kids, doesn’t work like that
What? You have no idea how anything works. Michael Carter Williams was a McDonald’s All American and road the bench his entire freshman year. What happened the following year? Brought us to the final four and was a lottery pick. So sick of entitled teenagers that don’t know how to work for something bigger than them.
 

Sgt Cuse

All Conference
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
2,000
Like
1,712
I posted this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating.

Where Boeheim has erred big time with Carey this year, IMO is not establishing a firm timeshare at PG when it became immediately clear upon his return that FH would not get back to 100%. In fact, it’s pretty clear that FH has spent the ROS as 75% physically of the player he was before the injury.

That was still early enough in the season where that decision would have paid dividends we’d be seeing right now.

Carey penetrates the lane far better than Howard and can finish inside. Howard looks like he’s playing on one leg and just chucks up off balance threes. With Buddy’s emergence, we don’t need Howard’s 3point weaponry as much, but we do need a guard that can penetrate and get into the paint other than Battle.

Enter Carey. Run some two guard sets with him and Battle. Hell, have Battle be the primary ballhandler when Carey comes in and flash Carey towards the basket.

He CAN absolutely be useful on this team. He’s getting punished by JB, which IMO is not right.
JC is not getting punished by JB. JC has been given multiple opportunities to get more PT but they have not worked out. If the lead had been kept at 20 after JC was in I bet he would have been in for a decent amount of time. The lead dwindled and JC was pulled.

IMO, if JB had force fed more time for JC this season he would have stunted the development of Battle at the point. And it's not a JC vs Howard competition, never has been, it's a JC/Battle vs Buddy/Battle comp. Battle/Buddy have clearly won, so much so that IMO it is the best lineup SU has. Your envisioned time share of Carey and Howard would have eliminated the development of what I (and probably others) consider to be the best potential for this year.

This game, IMO, was just more evidence that JB chose the right combination for this year. Buddy/Battle can be lethal. Buddy has improved so much, most easily recognized by the rising 3pt%, and Battle has improved at point incredibly, recognized not only by the eye test but assists. It feels to me like this in-season improvement gets overshadowed by the disappointment of JC's development.
 

tbonezone

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
11,639
Like
10,786
so i'm hearing buddy b has developed greatly in his 20 mpg and carey hasn't in his 2 ? whodathought ?
 

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
22,881
Like
50,724
so i'm hearing buddy b has developed greatly in his 20 mpg and carey hasn't in his 2 ? whodathought ?
Forget that Carey was getting his 20 mpg for much of the season? Why wasn’t he developing?

Why do you seem unhappy that Buddy is playing well? He’s a bench player getting a lot of minutes that he has earned, that has improved greatly over the course of the season, and has been a huge factor in a lot of ACC wins. Why you mad?
 
Last edited:

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
22,881
Like
50,724
To truly answer the question...I think for much of the season Carey was being allowed to play through many mistakes, because he was also making quite a few good things happen. He made some big plays in the Georgetown win, for example.

He had an absolutely disastrous performance against GT, and then was almost as bad against Duke. He hasn’t been able to recover since then, and Boeheim seemingly lost confidence in him. With every game being big, he hasn’t had time for it.

I think for Jalen right now, it’s about baby steps. Go in and play solid for a few minutes, and build off it and he’ll regain coach’s confidence.
 

br801

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
15,319
Like
28,567
Forget that Carey was getting his 20 mpg for much of the season? Why wasn’t he developing?

Why do you seem unhappy that Buddy is playing well? He’s a bench player getting a lot of minutes that he has earned, that has improved greatly over the course of the season, and has been a huge factor in a lot of ACC wins. Why you mad?
Buddy's per 40 minute numbers and productivity in ACC play are stunning, as are Jalen's.

I'm not sure what some of the people here are debating, or why, especially given that these two players could not be more dissimilar in terms of their skill sets and roles in the program. As this season has played out, one has evolved into a more valuable piece for 2018-19, but this roster will be very different in 2019-20, and each of their roles will evolve as well.
 

cliftonparksufan

Iggy Award Magistrate
Joined
Aug 14, 2011
Messages
10,328
Like
13,994
Buddy isn’t keeping JC on the bench. Battle is
Why is it so hard to understand that you play the best two guards out there. If fact a lot of times that Carey has been in there, Tyus has shifted to the three. So you could argue that Eli or Oshae has been taking Jalen's minutes. Bottom line: produce or sit.
 

tbonezone

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
11,639
Like
10,786
hey i'm elated that BB has developed into a weapon. i'm glad we kept pushing him minutes even when he was 0 for kenosha deep . JC isn't gonna get to improve like that playing 1 minute in a choke collar.
 

br801

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
15,319
Like
28,567
hey i'm elated that BB has developed into a weapon. i'm glad we kept pushing him minutes even when he was 0 for kenosha deep . JC isn't gonna get to improve like that playing 1 minute in a choke collar.
The best deep shooters in basketball have nights where nothing drops; you can even look it up. And Buddy somehow managed to drop three 2-point shots during that game, and was on the floor throughout most of the comeback from 20 down to 1 down, and was active and effective on defense when the team went to pressure.
 

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
22,881
Like
50,724
hey i'm elated that BB has developed into a weapon. i'm glad we kept pushing him minutes even when he was 0 for kenosha deep . JC isn't gonna get to improve like that playing 1 minute in a choke collar.
Buddy got 2 minutes and was 0-1 against Georgetown.

3 minutes and 0-2 against ODU.

4 minutes and 0-1 against ND.

5 minutes and 0-1 against Clemson.

Go in, miss one shot and come out? Dog choke collar? Why wasn’t he allowed to play through missed shots in those games? Where were the “poor Buddy, we should start him and get his confidence up” posts?
 

Cusefan0307

A very millennial millennial
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
21,141
Like
39,702
Buddy got 2 minutes and was 0-1 against Georgetown.

3 minutes and 0-2 against ODU.

4 minutes and 0-1 against ND.

5 minutes and 0-1 against Clemson.

Go in, miss one shot and come out? Dog choke collar? Why wasn’t he allowed to play through missed shots in those games? Where were the “poor Buddy, we should start him and get his confidence up” posts?
What’s ironic is the same posters who want Carey to play are the same posters who didn’t want Buddy in the game even for a minute.
 
Last edited:

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
22,881
Like
50,724
What’s irinic is the same posters who want Carey to play are the same posters who didn’t want Buddy in the game even for a minute.
Yup. Definitely noted that. Agenda BS.

Amazing, really.
 

Eric15

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
16,955
Like
43,581
Just speaking for myself, but I'm not saying that Jalen should be getting the same number of minutes as Buddy by any stretch of the imagination. Buddy has been playing very well, and should easily get 20 minutes per game.

All I'm saying is that there is a strong potential for Carey to get better and increase the overall strength of our lineup (that's my agenda BTW, increasing the strength of our lineup) if he is allowed to play through mistakes with greater flexibility than he is currently granted.
 

SU Dreaming

been real...not really
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
732
Like
2,491
I haven’t read anything negative about Buddy, i haven’t said anything negative about Buddy, we need him, I’m loving the way he is playing, but I do not like what I am seeing overall nor what I am hearing, again not related to 1 game , it’s about where we are headed

I also look at our program with a longer term view, not game to game, more in key recruiting class increments, after this incoming class it’s over, wake up, we can’t sign anyone for 20 forward, maybe we get Jackson, that’s it, 3 reasons and they are all related to the HC, it’s over , so hopefully it’s worth it bc by the time JB Walk’s out the door the basketball program will be similiar to when Dino took over, and if it’s Gerry as the new hc omg the program will be dead forever , none of the current assts should be considered

Try to enjoy what’s left, as someone wrote last night JB lives and dies game to game, clock is ticking
 

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
22,881
Like
50,724
Just speaking for myself, but I'm not saying that Jalen should be getting the same number of minutes as Buddy by any stretch of the imagination. Buddy has been playing very well, and should easily get 20 minutes per game.

All I'm saying is that there is a strong potential for Carey to get better and increase the overall strength of our lineup (that's my agenda BTW, increasing the strength of our lineup) if he is allowed to play through mistakes with greater flexibility than he is currently granted.
As Howard is clearly limited physically, I would love to have the best version of Carey in there. We could use an athletic, dynamic guard that can make things happen on both ends. There could easily be opportunity there. He’s gotta earn it though.

Its crunch time. How do you give him minutes in ACC games that we need to win, when he’s playing awful? I feel like he needs to handle the small minutes he’s getting first, before he gets big minutes.
 

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
22,881
Like
50,724
I haven’t read anything negative about Buddy, i haven’t said anything negative about Buddy, we need him, I’m loving the way he is playing, but I do not like what I am seeing overall nor what I am hearing, again not related to 1 game , it’s about where we are headed

I also look at our program with a longer term view, not game to game, more in key recruiting class increments, after this incoming class it’s over, wake up, we can’t sign anyone for 20 forward, maybe we get Jackson, that’s it, 3 reasons and they are all related to the HC, it’s over , so hopefully it’s worth it bc by the time JB Walk’s out the door the basketball program will be similiar to when Dino took over, and if it’s Gerry as the new hc omg the program will be dead forever , none of the current assts should be considered

Try to enjoy what’s left, as someone wrote last night JB lives and dies game to game, clock is ticking
You act like we’re the only program with an old coach.

Coach K and Roy aren’t that much younger. And while K is younger chronologically, he looks awful. Not everybody ages the same.
 

Eric15

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
16,955
Like
43,581
As Howard is clearly limited physically, I would love to have the best version of Carey in there. We could use an athletic, dynamic guard that can make things happen on both ends. There could easily be opportunity there. He’s gotta earn it though.

Its crunch time. How do you give him minutes in ACC games that we need to win, when he’s playing awful? I feel like he needs to handle the small minutes he’s getting first, before he gets big minutes.
I would give him 3-4 minutes in the first half and 3-4 minutes in the early-mid second half. Maybe slap on a press and use his high energy/athleticism to our advantage.
 

SU Dreaming

been real...not really
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
732
Like
2,491
You act like we’re the only program with an old coach.

Coach K and Roy aren’t that much younger. And while K is younger chronologically, he looks awful. Not everybody ages the same.

Are we a blue blood? Do we spend 6m per year on the hc plus plus plus? Do u think UNC will have any problems after he retires?

Do we have acceptable housing for student athletes...let alone new/state of the art living? Have you seen what we show recruits re housing?
This is our #1 problem after JB
 

Online statistics

Members online
25
Guests online
337
Total visitors
362

Top Bottom