Why does JB coach differently in Nov/Dec than March?

[OrlandoCuse]

JB is the king of the pre-season tournament. We always seem to win the one that we are playing in. We've beaten countless top level/elite teams over the years in Nov/Dec.

We've been killing our non-conference schedule over the past 6 years, rarely losing a game.

However, March hits and we've been falling short more than achieving success. We rarely pull off the upset of a higher seeded team in March. We've been upset by upstart mid-majors more times than I care to remember. JB is the all-time leader for losses to double digit seeds in the tourney.

Programs like UK, Louisville, Michigan State, Florida, UCLA, UConn, etc have experienced significantly more success in the NCAA over the past decade than SU. Even John Beilien has had equal to more success over the last decade at WVU/Michigan. Why is JB falling short? What does he do differently in Nov/Dec than March?

 

[Bayside44]

JB is the king of the pre-season tournament. We always seem to win the one that we are playing in. We've beaten countless top level/elite teams over the years in Nov/Dec.

We've been killing our non-conference schedule over the past 6 years, rarely losing a game.

However, March hits and we've been falling short more than achieving success. We rarely pull off the upset of a higher seeded team in March. We've been upset by upstart mid-majors more times than I care to remember. JB is the all-time leader for losses to double digit seeds in the tourney.

Programs like UK, Louisville, Michigan State, Florida, UCLA, UConn, etc have experienced significantly more success in the NCAA over the past decade than SU. Even John Beilien has had equal to more success over the last decade at WVU/Michigan. Why is JB falling short? What does he do differently in Nov/Dec than March?

He does the same exact thing.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

He does the same exact thing.

Maybe that's the problem....

 

[kcsu]

Other teams are playing a bench getting kids ready for a long season. JB is playing his starters and very little else. As the season wears on so do our players.

 

[anomander]

We play November games like they are March. Other teams are working in new guys, working out their rotations. We play the same exact 6 or 7 and make no changes.

 

[kuethstheman]

JB is the king of the pre-season tournament. We always seem to win the one that we are playing in. We've beaten countless top level/elite teams over the years in Nov/Dec.

We've been killing our non-conference schedule over the past 6 years, rarely losing a game.

However, March hits and we've been falling short more than achieving success. We rarely pull off the upset of a higher seeded team in March. We've been upset by upstart mid-majors more times than I care to remember. JB is the all-time leader for losses to double digit seeds in the tourney.

Programs like UK, Louisville, Michigan State, Florida, UCLA, UConn, etc have experienced significantly more success in the NCAA over the past decade than SU. Even John Beilien has had equal to more success over the last decade at WVU/Michigan. Why is JB falling short? What does he do differently in Nov/Dec than Marm?

Good question. It gives me an idea for a thread. Excuse me. I'm going to go start one now.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Throwing thoughts out there...

I think one of JB's greatest assets is also one of his biggest flaws; he's a stubborn bastard.

We've seen it countless times in post game interviews. He cannot be second guessed and does not take well to criticism. If JB says it then it must be true! Most coaches have to be stubborn to some level. That's how they get their players to play at the highest level. However, they also have to have the ability to see what doesn't work and adjust and develop new ideas as they grow in their career.

In other words, JB has to be willing to fail in order to succeed. I don't think he's willing to fail. He can fail a little in the early season, losing a few games by playing younger guys, playing different offenses and defenses, etc. He's not willing to do that. I'd rather take some lumps in Nov/Dec/Jan in order to prepare the team for March. You can lose the battle and win the war. JB is an expert at winning the early battles but is substandard when it comes to winning the war.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Good question. It gives me an idea for a thread. Excuse me. I'm going to go start one now.

Apologies if there is a similar thread already going. I didn't see an active one on the first page. Mods are capable of merging.

 

[rrlbees]

We went the the F4 just 1 year ago and the Elite 8 2 years ago. We weren't an expected final 4 team last year but I remember plenty of posts about how great JB was. Guess he got stupid in 12 months. And if your going to mention a negative record or stat about JB that is partly driven by how many years he has coached compared to others, you should include the positive ones too.

 

[kuethstheman]

Apologies if there is a similar thread already going. I didn't see an active one on the first page. Mods are capable of merging.

JK. You asked a good question from a slightly different angle so go with it.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We went the the F4 just 1 year ago and the Elite 8 2 years ago. We weren't an expected final 4 team last year but I remember plenty of posts about how great JB was. Guess he got stupid in 12 months. And if your going to mention a negative record or stat about JB that is partly driven by how many years he has cached compared to others, you should include the positive ones too.

I'm a JB fan. Just longing for the post season success that mirrors his regular season success. The once a decade FF and once a half-century championship leaves me impatient. We just need to get over the hump. I thought we were on our way with last year's FF and this year's great start. It wasn't to be and we seem to be regressing to our old patterns.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Clearly it was a huge mistake to play Carmelo 36 minutes a game back in 2003.

If only Matt Gorman had a more prominent place in the rotation that season...

 

[CU44SE]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see a lot of teams progress throughout the year and I feel like Syracuse teams rarely get exponentially better. I feel this also has to do with only playing certain players and not allowing younger players to develop. Just a thought.

 

[supp]

Throwing thoughts out there...

I think one of JB's greatest assets is also one of his biggest flaws; he's a stubborn .

We've seen it countless times in post game interviews. He cannot be second guessed and does not take well to criticism. If JB says it then it must be true! Most coaches have to be stubborn to some level. That's how they get their players to play at the highest level. However, they also have to have the ability to see what doesn't work and adjust and develop new ideas as they grow in their career.

In other words, JB has to be willing to fail in order to succeed. I don't think he's willing to fail. He can fail a little in the early season, losing a few games by playing younger guys, playing different offenses and defenses, etc. He's not willing to do that. I'd rather take some lumps in Nov/Dec/Jan in order to prepare the team for March. You can lose the battle and win the war. JB is an expert at winning the early battles but is substandard when it comes to winning the war.

If he's not willing to fail, why do we do it so much in March? Boeheim is not a tinkerer. It's good for stability but if there's something wrong, then the wheels really come off. His teams either respond or they don't. He doesn't do much in the way of rethinking his plan. His press conference answer to every bad game this year, for example, was that we have to shoot better. Nothing about getting better shots, rethinking the offensive strategy, etc.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Early in the season the rotation is larger. It tightens once conference play starts. There's also a lot of cupcakes early in the season.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see a lot of teams progress throughout the year and I feel like Syracuse teams rarely get exponentially better. I feel this also has to do with only playing certain players and not allowing younger players to develop. Just a thought.

I remember young Fabricio's freshman year. Pretty sure the fan base thought he got way too much "developmental time" in 2011. And D-Nic was pegged as a wasted scholarship during his first year.

JB is damned if he plays guys before they're ready, and he's damned if he doesn't.

 

[Cheriehoop]

If he's not willing to fail, why do we do it so much in March? Boeheim is not a tinkerer. It's good for stability but if there's something wrong, then the wheels really come off. His teams either respond or they don't. He doesn't do much in the way of rethinking his plan. His press conference answer to every bad game this year, for example, was that we have to shoot better. Nothing about getting better shots, rethinking the offensive strategy, etc.

I think that's what was frustrating this year - we got plenty of good shots - we just didn't make them. I know there were games I could have sworn there was an invisible force field or magnetic field knocking shots off the rim. Heck we missed a fair number of point blank dunks. Has to affect the psyche of a team - I know it affected my psyche :crazy:

 

[CU44SE]

I remember young Fabricio's freshman year. Pretty sure the fan base thought he got way too much "developmental time" in 2011. And D-Nic was pegged as a wasted scholarship during his first year.

JB is damned if he plays guys before they're ready, and he's damned if he doesn't.

Well let me ask then, do you think Roberson could have done something for this team if he got over 10 mins a game? Personally, I believe he could have developed nicely and maybe could have added something to our team. But it's unrealistic to expect a player to come in and play well for an injured grant when he hasn't played all year.

 

[Chris02M]

jb doesn't coach different in November and December, early in the season other teams haven't seen the strengths of the team for that current year so we are able to win games vs other top teams in non conference. Later in the season teams are planning to exploit any weaknesses our team has

 

[Chris02M]

Well let me ask then, do you think Roberson could have done something for this team if he got over 10 mins a game? Personally, I believe he could have developed nicely and maybe could have added something to our team. But it's unrealistic to expect a player to come in and play well for an injured grant when he hasn't played all year.

not at the very end, but if he was playing all year consistently possibly but I am not privy to practices so i'll let JB figure that one out

 

[CU44SE]

not at the very end, but if he was playing all year consistently possibly but I am not privy to practices so i'll let JB figure that one out

Maybe he can figure out an offensive philosophy while he's at it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Well let me ask then, do you think Roberson could have done something for this team if he got over 10 mins a game? Personally, I believe he could have developed nicely and maybe could have added something to our team. But it's unrealistic to expect a player to come in and play well for an injured grant when he hasn't played all year.

JB didn't think so. And unlike you or me, JB got to watch Roberson in practice every day.

I'm sure there might have been a plan in place to get Roberson some minutes, however that all went out the window when DC was lost for the season. There's no way he could play both Roberson and Baye at the same time, and Rak just couldn't stay on the court for long stretches.

 

[jdubs30]

Players play coaches coach.

Without looking at the boxscore; I believe CJ and Ennis were 11/35 (31%) from the field vs. Dayton; he can't make shots for them.

It's debatable about substitution patterns or whatever else you want to talk about. But the bottom line it's up to the players. Izzo had a great quote after the game today "It's the players' team, it's the coaches program"

 

[rrlbees]

Maybe he can figure out an offensive philosophy while he's at it.

Have we always had a problem scoring? Or is this a 2 year blip?

 

[CU44SE]

JB didn't think so. And unlike you or me, JB got to watch Roberson in practice every day.

I'm sure there might have been a plan in place to get Roberson some minutes, however that all went out the window when DC was lost for the season. There's no way he could play both Roberson and Baye at the same time, and Rak just couldn't stay on the court for long stretches.

And Cooney was the second coming during his redshirt year in practice and we can all agree his freshman year was a disaster. The bottom line is Practice performance doesn't always translate over to in game performance. Some players perform better and some perform worse, it's a completely different animal. I'm sorry, I just hate the generic response, JB sees him everyday in practice. God forbid we ever question JB when he has all this coaching experience. Yes, he has a great resume but there are obvious flaws which people are allowed to point out. Obviously he's not perfect, no one is.