Why Not Us? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Why Not Us?

Not to be debbie downer but our HC has given us two 4 - 8 seasons in a row. You can tell me it's injuries, implementing his system, getting the right guys, turning over the roster, tough schedule, injuries again. But the reality is the HC isn't an advantage until the staff proves they are an advantage.

I believe they are but lets get some proof before we start tallying up wins before games are played like most of the board did after Clemson and VT the year before.

First, i never once predicted them winning out after Clemson knowing the limited depth we had. As i posted above. The starting secondary that we were forced to play with to close the year now plays at Temple, MTSU, and WMU. This year is a totally different story with the depth.

Second, if you can't tell just by the eye test that Babers has totally overhauled the roster and the culture of this program in 2 short years then I don't know what to tell you. We have already had more big wins in the last 27 games then we had in the last 3 years before that. Were you expecting winning seasons with some of the kids we had on the last 2 rosters? I certainly wasn't. I was hoping for 6 if we stayed healthy, but that obviously didn't happen. I would think it's rather simple to separate the Marrone's and Babers from the Gerg's and Shhafer's? I guess not?
 
This team should go 8-4.
It really should. Beat UConn, Louisville, North Carolina
That gets us 6 wins.

Then 50/50 or split at Wake, at Pitt.

That gets us to 7 wins.
Find a way to upset one of at BC/NC State/Notre Dame.

That is 8.

We aren’t winning in Death Valley short of the Tigers commiting a ton of turnovers.

Spot on and after NCST sent alot of players to the pros, hopefully the talent gap closes a bit and we put scheme them.
 
Ditto - we had these same posts last year. This year isn't last year but until it actually plays out differently, I'm going to be cautious and enthusiastic at the same time.

When we crush UConn, that will technically make it different.
 
Not to be debbie downer but our HC has given us two 4 - 8 seasons in a row. You can tell me it's injuries, implementing his system, getting the right guys, turning over the roster, tough schedule, injuries again. But the reality is the HC isn't an advantage until the staff proves they are an advantage.

I believe they are but lets get some proof before we start tallying up wins before games are played like most of the board did after Clemson and VT the year before.
To be fair, this Head coach was successful before he came to Syracuse. That also counts.
 
To be fair, this Head coach was successful before he came to Syracuse. That also counts.

You're absolutely right. I don't disagree at all. I have faith in this staff but I'm also not going to start banking wins until we know the staff is capable of consistently winning the ACC games we should.
 
You're absolutely right. I don't disagree at all. I have faith in this staff but I'm also not going to start banking wins until we know the staff is capable of consistently winning the ACC games we should.
I agree
 
First, i never once predicted them winning out after Clemson knowing the limited depth we had. As i posted above. The starting secondary that we were forced to play with to close the year now plays at Temple, MTSU, and WMU. This year is a totally different story with the depth.

Second, if you can't tell just by the eye test that Babers has totally overhauled the roster and the culture of this program in 2 short years then I don't know what to tell you. We have already had more big wins in the last 27 games then we had in the last 3 years before that. Were you expecting winning seasons with some of the kids we had on the last 2 rosters? I certainly wasn't. I was hoping for 6 if we stayed healthy, but that obviously didn't happen. I would think it's rather simple to separate the Marrone's and Babers from the Gerg's and Shhafer's? I guess not?

I'm having trouble making the connection between what I wrote and how you responded.

I never talked about your predictions. You already mentioned the secondary. The eye test doesn't = wins, if it did Florida State wouldn't be struggling. I never said this team isn't getting better. I never said I expected winning seasons the last 2 years.

Did you reply to the wrong post? Failing to see the connections you're making other than maybe you don't like anyone disagreeing with your post.
 
I'm having trouble making the connection between what I wrote and how you responded.

I never talked about your predictions. You already mentioned the secondary. The eye test doesn't = wins, if it did Florida State wouldn't be struggling. I never said this team isn't getting better. I never said I expected winning seasons the last 2 years.

Did you reply to the wrong post? Failing to see the connections you're making other than maybe you don't like anyone disagreeing with your post.

The reply was mostly in part to you referencing Babers first 2 seasons being 4-8 and him not being an advantage. I totally disagree with that and my post stated why.

I know there are a ton of people that are going to disagree with me. It's a message board.
 
I'd feel a lot better about 8-4 if all of the rest of our games were at home.
 
I remember those teams. It's not just about us. It's just as much about our schedule breaking for us. Also, the biggest advantage this current team has over those teams from the 90's is at HC. That alone is good enough for an extra win or 2

I'd pump the brakes on that a bit. Pasqualoni won what, 4 big east titles and won his first 4 bowl games (when they meant something)? I know we like to discuss the end and the downfall but during the mid 90s, Paul and the coaching staff were pretty damn good.

I want Dino to get the program to where Paul had it in the mid 90s winning 8-9 games, exciting football etc. This isn't a knock on Dino but to say Dino is already surpassed Paul in the coaching dept is...strange. Let's see how this season plays out.
 
I'd pump the brakes on that a bit. Pasqualoni won what, 4 big east titles and won his first 4 bowl games (when they meant something)? I know we like to discuss the end and the downfall but during the mid 90s, Paul and the coaching staff were pretty damn good.

I want Dino to get the program to where Paul had it in the mid 90s winning 8-9 games, exciting football etc. This isn't a knock on Dino but to say Dino is already surpassed Paul in the coaching dept is...strange. Let's see how this season plays out.


You can make an argument that Pasqualoni underachieved with the talent he had on those rosters and I actually think he did.
 
I'd pump the brakes on that a bit. Pasqualoni won what, 4 big east titles and won his first 4 bowl games (when they meant something)? I know we like to discuss the end and the downfall but during the mid 90s, Paul and the coaching staff were pretty damn good.

I want Dino to get the program to where Paul had it in the mid 90s winning 8-9 games, exciting football etc. This isn't a knock on Dino but to say Dino is already surpassed Paul in the coaching dept is...strange. Let's see how this season plays out.

I think the point he was making was that P had the top end talent and the ball was already rolling down hill a bit in recruiting. Our experience with P and mediocre talent tells a different story.

Dino has the talent on the rise - but his system/philosophy is worth a game or two. This is proven out in the numbers, btw.
 
I think the point he was making was that P had the top end talent and the ball was already rolling down hill a bit in recruiting. Our experience with P and mediocre talent tells a different story.

Dino has the talent on the rise - but his system/philosophy is worth a game or two. This is proven out in the numbers, btw.

AND proven on the field.

Lost in the “yeah but, we lost every game after Clemson last year and finished 4-8” is just how close we were to winning @ FSU and @ Miami.

It proved that our system & coaches - even lacking the talent & depth we have now - could punch up in weight class, and on the road to boot.

I don’t know how anybody could compare the last 2+ seasons with Dino to the 3 that preceded him, and not see MASSIVE IMPROVMENTS across the board.
In spite of the W/L record those first 2 years.
 
ESPN FPI now has Syracuse expected to win 5 more games with Wake now close to a toss up. Louisville now up to 78% and NCST 59%. I think it is time to reset expectations. I know people are worried about getting to 6 and all that, but the way the schedule is breaking and the way the team is starting to look will you be pleased with 6 wins knowing what you do right now? I think we should set the goal at 8, but hope for more because it's there for the taking. Even Notre Dame haven't looked like world beaters.

The national perception, and even local for the most part is that we have a weak defense. I disagree. They have basically been dominate in 11 out of 12 quarters, and we all know what happened there. We have already seen substantial improvements from our true Freshman Cisco. If we go back and replay that WMU game now I don't think they put up half the number they did. That kid is the real deal. His maturity beyond his years showed on that tailback pass. I believe it was after a couple scores, everybody was amped up. You would expect a young kid, or almost all of our other FS in the last 15 years to bite and get burnt over the top, but Cisco was right there for the play.

I think last year's tough road losses, as well as the huge home win vs Clemson was an invaluable learning experience. First, we learned that we can compete with some of the best talent in the country and at some of the most challenging venues in the country. We took some hard losses on the chin where 1 or 2 plays decided the game, but we also saw what it takes to win in a big game atmosphere vs Clemson. We only had Dungey for a few quarters after that win. Who knows what happens if he doesn't go down, or if we have someone to put in that wouldn't hurt us?

However the most important aspect is the depth Dino built. It was on display Saturday when TD had to take over for ED. As much as some around here loved the Officer, that just wouldn't be possible over a long period of time. I loved how FSU immediately started blitzing him and he remained composed and began to light up there defensive with 4 and 5 star athletes all over the field. Plus it's just not at QB. We have great depth at DB, DE, interior OL, and WR. If they were to come (which i'm hoping they don't since we are overdue to have some good fortune go our way on that front) we will be much better prepared.

If you look back and dig into some of the more surprising runs like Wake in 2007 and Kansas in 2008(?) they had similar profiles and circumstances as this Syracuse team. They each had proven, 3-4 year star starting QB's, as well as HC's, who usually had an advantage vs the opposing HC. They also had a conference that was having a down year. Both of those teams came out of no where. Kansas had 6 wins the prior year, Wake had 4. There was no slow build up in wins as some assume is the way it goes.

We have the talent and the HC to compete now. There aren't going to be many years where the whole conference is down except Clemson, BC, and Wake to an extent. Clemson is a whole other beast, but you know at least we aren't out talented by BC and Wake. Sure we go to their place, and we definitely play significantly better at home, but i'll take both our athletes, scheme and HC vs theirs any day.

Let's go Orange!
This probably won't be popular, butI haven't been allowing myself to get too far ahead. Can we change expectations throughout the season? Yes. Have I changed mine yet? No. I'm still aiming for 6, because I just don't know what we have yet. We've looked good, but the competition has been pretty bad. Yes, Florida State is loaded with talent, but that means nothing when you don't execute, and play smart. The fact that Samford piled up over 500 yards of offense vs FSU tells me all I need to know about them. I'm still just hoping for 6. Now, if (when) we beat UCONN, and then are competitive with Clemson (within 14), I'll start changing expectations. Don't take this as me being a negative Nelly, or a non believer, I've just learned to be cautiously optimistic.
 
Not to be debbie downer but our HC has given us two 4 - 8 seasons in a row. You can tell me it's injuries, implementing his system, getting the right guys, turning over the roster, tough schedule, injuries again. But the reality is the HC isn't an advantage until the staff proves they are an advantage.

I believe they are but lets get some proof before we start tallying up wins before games are played like most of the board did after Clemson and VT the year before.
I never understood not looking at a coaches record with context. Some call them excuses, when in fact they're more like reasons. It's like you show up to work late, and you explain to your boss, "Sorry, but I got a flat tire on the way here, and then after I put the doughnut tire on, another tire went flat.", and then your boss tells you to stop making excuses.
Lack of depth happens in turnovers, and rebuilds. Rosters need to turn over with the new coaches players. Injuries impact those teams far more than teams with depth, and directly impacts the record. It just does, and it's o.k. to point that out.
 
The reply was mostly in part to you referencing Babers first 2 seasons being 4-8 and him not being an advantage. I totally disagree with that and my post stated why.

I know there are a ton of people that are going to disagree with me. It's a message board.

And there's a ton of people that disagree with me too. I don't reject the idea of "why not us". I've done the same thing the last two years we're doing now. We get a great win and I start rationalizing why/how we win every single game on the rest of the schedule. Every game is absolutely winnable right now, in my opinion.

But I personally haven't seen enough from the staff in all of the games through the last two years to completely believe we win most of the remaining games. But don't mistake that for not believing we can't either. I'm just trying to contain my optimism until I feel more comfortable feeling like we've truly turned the invisible corner.

There were many, legitimate factors the last two years that led to our record. I get that and I don't discount it. I also thought there were some games that were far more lopsided or just plain winnable and the coaching strategy didn't make sense. So again, I'm just being more cautious at this point but I truly believe this is the right staff. I've said it numerous times since DB was hired, I can't think of anyone else I would have wanted to be the coach with the resources we have. I might be critical but I'm also enthusiastic and appreciative that we got a legit coach steering us in the right direction.
 
We could lose Dungey and Devito on the same series and be completely up the creek. We haven't been to a bowl since Shafer squeaked out one with DMs guys. 4 straight losing seasons. Why try to 'change the expectations'? What does that do? I for one am just enjoying what it feels like to have SU football be fun again. I think we have a real shot at a winning season. Everything else is whipped cream and hot fudge. One game at a time. Annihilate UConn!
 
You can make an argument that Pasqualoni underachieved with the talent he had on those rosters and I actually think he did.

That was always my opinion. He came up short in gsmes he should have won far too often.

Me 3. And too often it was an early season game that really dictated the perception of the program for the remainder of that season
 
I won't argue that the had too many What games, but he gave others a bunch of What games too. I'm thinking BC/Ferri, Auburn, VT 3OT, VT every other year, etc. Paul was inconsistent but still one hell of a coach. We've been trying to get back to his level for 13 years. We might have finally done it.
 

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