Will anything change the next few years other than the talent level? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Will anything change the next few years other than the talent level?

The offense is predicated on the talent, so yes.

JB doesn't run 1 offense and just shoehorn whatever players he has into it. He tailors it to the personnel he has available. He's done this as far back as I can remember. It will remain a 'pro-style' offense at its core.

How has JB tailored the offense to our personnel in recent years?

This year's offense is very similar to last year, except we don't set up a shooter with screens like we did AW3. I do agree with what someone else said and we might use Darius for pick and pops like we tried to with Tyler Lydon. The problem was Lydon didn't pull the trigger.
 
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I hear that for sure but I think this year’s ACC isn’t very good in an already down year of college hoops. I doubt any ACC team gets to the F4, frankly.
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Well, in this case, it's tough to get guys open when they don't have to guard two of them. That is why I see Sid and Marek as the keys to the rest of this season. when Sid can play, he can score. And Marek has showed a little more as the season has gone on.

Sid will never be healthy enough this year to do what he's capable of. He can hit a jumper, he can score off pick and roll and he can do an assortment of big man moves... When healthy. Sadly, that won't happen until he's back from his surgery.
 
Next year is the window of opportunity if everyone stays. Iso offense but with more and better guys and the zone should be strong again with Frank and Tyus in the backcourt and Oshae and Chukwu/Sidibe with another year of experience. After that, picture gets much cloudier. I don't know if we'll ever have that precise mix of experience and youthful offensive talent again in the next 4-5 years.
 
How has JB tailored the offense to our personnel in recent years?

This year's offense is very similar to last year, except we don't set up a shooter with screens like we did AW3. I do agree with what someone else said and we might use Darius for pick and pops like we tried to with Tyler Lydon. The problem was Lydon didn't pull the trigger.

JB gets the ball to the best scorers in their best spots to score. That's the heart of a lot of NBA style offenses. It's not fancy, but it works when you have multiple scoring threats or, at least, scoring threats at multiple spots on the court.

With Rak, we got him the ball in the post at every opportunity and ran some off ball screens down there to free him up. He'd screen and roll to the hoop a lot, too. Last year, we tried to get White open from 3 as much as possible with off-ball screens (similar to Cooney and Rautins) and ran a lot of the offense through Lydon at various spots on the court, like the high post, foul line extended, pick-and-pop/roll. This year, our only offensive weapons are basically Frank and Tyus, with no real deep threats; so we dribble drive. With Flynn and Scoop, we pushed the ball in transition as much as possible. With Onuaku and Jackson, we played inside-out on most possessions. CJ Fair would get the ball 12 feet from the hoop and we'd clear out the lane for him. We'd run baseline motion and overloads to get Warrick open for alley-oops.

JB recruits for the zone and manipulates the offense to fit the players he has. Other coaches kind of do the opposite, they recruit players to fit their offense then worry about the defense as something of an afterthought. Coach K comes to mind in this regard.
 
Sidibe will be much better next year. He has Rak moves now and next year Baz will be able to get him the ball. He is fighting thru his year but that 18 and 14 game is what I will expect next year.
 
Sidibe will be much better next year. He has Rak moves now and next year Baz will be able to get him the ball. He is fighting thru his year but that 18 and 14 game is what I will expect next year.
While he certainly has great potential, I hope you're not really expecting anything like 18 and 14 from Sidibe on a regular basis next season because he won't be the focus of the offense and will likely be sharing time in the middle with Chukwu.
 
How has JB tailored the offense to our personnel in recent years?

This year's offense is very similar to last year, except we don't set up a shooter with screens like we did AW3. I do agree with what someone else said and we might use Darius for pick and pops like we tried to with Tyler Lydon. The problem was Lydon didn't pull the trigger.


Successful or not, you gave two examples to answer your primary question.
 
I hear that for sure but I think this year’s ACC isn’t very good in an already down year of college hoops. I doubt any ACC team gets to the F4, frankly.

ACC will get 9-10 teams in the tournament. That's pretty strong. Are you saying there are no great teams in the ACC or that there are not a lot of good teams? What conference is better? The #1 team in the nation is in the ACC. The PAC 12 is really down, for sure.
 
jb has his young, injury riddled team a game out of 4th place in the loss column
Agreed. Plus, the team is a couple of bad plays down the stretch of a few games from being at least 19-6 or 20-5. That’s insane to think about considering our offensive limitations.
 
Successful or not, you gave two examples to answer your primary question.

It was essentially the same offense though, just a couple wrinkles off of it.
 
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Just wondering if anyone thinks we will play any differently the next 4-5 years.
Is it going to be an ISO offense, 100% zone, press when down the next 4-5 years.
I know the talent will improve next year but hopefully we can see some tweaks.
No it won't, especially in terms of our tempo. Noticed a play on Sunday that points to this...

In the first half, Frank runs a fastbreak (sort of a delayed break), pulls up at about 18 feet from the rim, and he dishes to Sidibe, who is alone, about 2 foot from the rim, nearly uncovered. Bourama botched the (solid) pass, which went out of bounds. WF ball.

After the play, (a calm) JAB catches Frank's eye, gestures and asks him to slow down. I love JAB, always will, but that told me everything I needed to know. Sidibe's going to have a layup if he catches the ball. Frank did his job to perfection. Yet, in the end, JAB would rather go the conservative route, ... slow down, bring it out top, run the offense.

He would never had made the same demand of Pearl 30 years ago, Sherm 25 years ago, Jonny 11 years ago, etc.

I think we are a grind it out team from now until JAB and Buddy depart together. Personally, I don't love this -- I think it creates too thin a margin -- but it just is not going to change. Or at least I'd be greatly surprised.
 
Just wondering if anyone thinks we will play any differently the next 4-5 years.
Is it going to be an ISO offense, 100% zone, press when down the next 4-5 years.
I know the talent will improve next year but hopefully we can see some tweaks.

It's an interesting question and I like that this thread isn't people arguing angrily arguing about JB one way or the other. I would suggest, for my part, that we've seen some pretty different looks at times over the past decade or so offensively (obviously not in terms of zone and/or press). This was detailed in Brooky03's post so I won't rehash. But I would think any objective observer would agree that if we're being honest, JB's offenses rarely model a lot of what we see in many college where the action and the plays are the meat and potatoes of what teams do. UVA, UConn and Duke, for example, have always run a ton of sets in the halfcourt -- we tend to have basic motion and a lot of freelancing.

So where that leaves us, generally, is with a relatively similar offense from year-to-year. When we have solid offensive players, we look pretty good in this department. Even last year (White/Lydon/Battle as plus threats, Gillon and Thompson as solid options and Roberson/Howard struggling) we were a top third offensive team (108th overall in scoring, 6th in the ACC; 41st in offensive rating) -- a far cry from what we've seen this year as we're close to 200 in offensive rating with rating with Battle as a really nice option, Brissett and Howard chipping in at a solid rate and struggles offensively from Chuckwu/Dolezaj/Moyer (Sidibe struggling with injuries, Thorpe dominating pickup ball somewhere).

Point being, as much or as little change as we see in the offense, our personnel is a huge factor.

To me, the biggest difference is getting to a point where we don't have to ask players to do things that they can't do. It's rarely perfect, like the 09-10 team, but the frustration with this team is that we're asking frank to be the point guard, primary ball-handler, 15 ppg scorer and, oh, by the way, also play 40 mins and don't get in foul trouble while playing great defense. We're asking Battle to score 20 ppg consistently and efficiently despite not really having many threats around him. We're aksing Brissett to play 40 mpg, grab 10 boards and be an inside/out threat offensively as a frosh. We're playing Dolezaj and Moyer far more minutes than they would have played five or six years ago, etc.

Point is, IMO, the roster management and talent development are huge keys. Does that mean I wouldn't like to see JB do a bit more with this offense? No, I'm with everyone else in that department. I'd also LOVE to see us play with more tempo going forward. But, ultimately, getting back to 22-25 wins in the regular season every year instead of trying to scratch out 18-20 comes down largely to building rosters that can truly compete at a bit higher level in this conference.

Thems my two cents.
 
In practices, is time split evenly between the D and O when it comes to actually teaching plays/schemes/positioning etc.

For example is 70% of the actual learning time spent on zone and 30% on running plays, pick and roll etc?
 
While he certainly has great potential, I hope you're not really expecting anything like 18 and 14 from Sidibe on a regular basis next season because he won't be the focus of the offense and will likely be sharing time in the middle with Chukwu.
No not expecting that but did u even realize he had them numbers that game. He wasn't calling for ball or not a ton of post passes so I could see 14 and 10. Jr year 18 and 12 no doubt.
 
No not expecting that but did u even realize he had them numbers that game. He wasn't calling for ball or not a ton of post passes so I could see 14 and 10. Jr year 18 and 12 no doubt.
You're dreaming about those kind of per game numbers for a center in JB's system. Maybe he could approach them on a per 40 minute basis at some point, though.
 
No it won't, especially in terms of our tempo. Noticed a play on Sunday that points to this...

In the first half, Frank runs a fastbreak (sort of a delayed break), pulls up at about 18 feet from the rim, and he dishes to Sidibe, who is alone, about 2 foot from the rim, nearly uncovered. Bourama botched the (solid) pass, which went out of bounds. WF ball.

After the play, (a calm) JAB catches Frank's eye, gestures and asks him to slow down. I love JAB, always will, but that told me everything I needed to know. Sidibe's going to have a layup if he catches the ball. Frank did his job to perfection. Yet, in the end, JAB would rather go the conservative route, ... slow down, bring it out top, run the offense.

He would never had made the same demand of Pearl 30 years ago, Sherm 25 years ago, Jonny 11 years ago, etc.

You may be right as I watched the game on tv. However, it looked a bit different to me. Howard made a very athletic one-handed quick pass to Bourama who probably should’ve been able to catch it but didn’t. It seemed to me that it was more of Boeheim telling Frank to make a more controlled pass so it would be easier to catch because more times than not our big guys won’t be able to corral a pass like that (although Bourama has much better hands). Didn’t look really like he was trying to slow it down but we just can’t afford to turn the ball over in spots like that.
 
I think we are a grind it out team from now until JAB and Buddy depart together. Personally, I don't love this -- I think it creates too thin a margin -- but it just is not going to change.

Has anyone raised their hand and said they DO love this? If he truly chastised Frank on that play that tells me he's tighter than a Marrone-4th-and-1-from-the-opponent-35-yard-line.
 
You may be right as I watched the game on tv. However, it looked a bit different to me. Howard made a very athletic one-handed quick pass to Bourama who probably should’ve been able to catch it but didn’t. It seemed to me that it was more of Boeheim telling Frank to make a more controlled pass so it would be easier to catch because more times than not our big guys won’t be able to corral a pass like that (although Bourama has much better hands). Didn’t look really like he was trying to slow it down but we just can’t afford to turn the ball over in spots like that.

Disagree, but I can see your point. The only true reason to catch Frank's eye on that play is to applaud him. As a program, we should want that transition opportunity as often as we can get it. I am just not certain that 72 y.o. JAB jibes with 52 y.o. JAB. He's gotten so much more conservative with age. We all do, but it's almost like JAB is consumed by defense now. It's as if in his mind, they cannot score while we have the ball, so let's hold it for 23 seconds and then see what we can make happen (paging Tyus!). So anytime we "shoot early" in the shot clock, it had better work or else JAB's going to have to correct someone.
 
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Disagree, but I can see your point. The only true reason to catch Frank's eye on that play is to applaud him. As a program, we should want that transition opportunity as often as we can get it. I am just not certain that 72 y.o. JAB jibes with 52 y.o. JAB. He's gotten so much more conservative with age. We all do, but it's almost like JAB is consumed by defense now. It's as if in his mind, they cannot score while we have the ball, so let's hold it for 23 seconds and then see what we can make happen (paging Tyus!). So anytime we "shoot early" in the shot clock, it had better work or else JAB's going to have to correct someone.

I'm not sure -- I mean, JB was 71 last year and we were a pretty decent offensive team especially considering we still had some limitations. I mean, some of that had to do with how horrendous the defense was, but we were only held to less than 70 five times in 18 ACC games and one of those was a win over UVA, so hard to knock that. Conversely we were at 80+ six times and we were 5-1 in those games. If you include the BC game as part of our What pre-conference season, we were perfect in those games. And much of that was with a good but not dominant offensive team. Lydon never really figured out his role, Frank/Roberson/Gillon had a few moments here and there, but it was basically Lydon playing decently with Battle and Thompson adding a bunch in the second half of the season and White being a constant threat to put up 20.

I have to believe that -- let's just say something crazy happens -- and you had a backcourt of Frank/Battle/Hughes/Carey next season with a healthy Sidibe/Chuckwu combo at C and Bazely teaming up with an improved Brissett and Dolezaj -- That team's going to average in the high 70s for the season and maybe even get into the upper 70s in conference play.

That doesn't make JB an offensive wizard, mind you, but I think he's generally fine with early offense and quicker tempo. Probably not what we'd all love to see with that team, which is a super up-tempo team that pressed for stretches to take advantage of depth, etc. But I think you'd see that team playing pretty quick and creating a bunch of mismatches that led to pretty consistent scoring outside of an off game here and there and the occasional battle with a knock-down, drag-out defensive-minded team like UVA.

Look at the lineups during the brutal offensive stretch (outside of last season):

17/18 -- three on five with Frank and Brissett asked to do more than they should have to
15-16 (mediocre year) -- G with a great year, Richardson up and down, but solid, Cooney -- decent year from three, not a lot else, Lydon solid for a frosh. That's it.
14-15 (brutal year) -- Rak comes out of nowhere (never averaged more than 6 ppg) to put up a huge season, cooney is OK but not terribly efficient, G is decent and once mccullough goes down that's all you have

Hard to say on 2013/14. PPG was pretty ugly (68 ppg, 259th in ranking, but offensive rating was actually pretty good since we played at a glacial pace). Feel like that team deliberately played slow because Cooney played pretty well which gave them four scorers in Ennis/Fair/Grant/Cooney. Probably could have pretty easily been in the low 70s but didn't play that way.

Anyway, I'm not sure I feel like JB is suddenly averse to offense, but we do need to have enough scoring threats on the floor particularly since we don't run a super-imaginative or up-tempo style.
 
I'm not sure -- I mean, JB was 71 last year and we were a pretty decent offensive team especially considering we still had some limitations. I mean, some of that had to do with how horrendous the defense was, but we were only held to less than 70 five times in 18 ACC games and one of those was a win over UVA, so hard to knock that. Conversely we were at 80+ six times and we were 5-1 in those games. If you include the BC game as part of our What pre-conference season, we were perfect in those games. And much of that was with a good but not dominant offensive team. Lydon never really figured out his role, Frank/Roberson/Gillon had a few moments here and there, but it was basically Lydon playing decently with Battle and Thompson adding a bunch in the second half of the season and White being a constant threat to put up 20.

I have to believe that -- let's just say something crazy happens -- and you had a backcourt of Frank/Battle/Hughes/Carey next season with a healthy Sidibe/Chuckwu combo at C and Bazely teaming up with an improved Brissett and Dolezaj -- That team's going to average in the high 70s for the season and maybe even get into the upper 70s in conference play.

That doesn't make JB an offensive wizard, mind you, but I think he's generally fine with early offense and quicker tempo. Probably not what we'd all love to see with that team, which is a super up-tempo team that pressed for stretches to take advantage of depth, etc. But I think you'd see that team playing pretty quick and creating a bunch of mismatches that led to pretty consistent scoring outside of an off game here and there and the occasional battle with a knock-down, drag-out defensive-minded team like UVA.

Look at the lineups during the brutal offensive stretch (outside of last season):

17/18 -- three on five with Frank and Brissett asked to do more than they should have to
15-16 (mediocre year) -- G with a great year, Richardson up and down, but solid, Cooney -- decent year from three, not a lot else, Lydon solid for a frosh. That's it.
14-15 (brutal year) -- Rak comes out of nowhere (never averaged more than 6 ppg) to put up a huge season, cooney is OK but not terribly efficient, G is decent and once mccullough goes down that's all you have

Hard to say on 2013/14. PPG was pretty ugly (68 ppg, 259th in ranking, but offensive rating was actually pretty good since we played at a glacial pace). Feel like that team deliberately played slow because Cooney played pretty well which gave them four scorers in Ennis/Fair/Grant/Cooney. Probably could have pretty easily been in the low 70s but didn't play that way.

Anyway, I'm not sure I feel like JB is suddenly averse to offense, but we do need to have enough scoring threats on the floor particularly since we don't run a super-imaginative or up-tempo style.
We were not a good offensive team last year.
We just had Andrew White who had a ton of tough ISO shots.
Plus Lydon and Gillon could make 3’s.
It wasn’t a good offensive team go watch the ACC tournament game against Miami.
Our offense and tempo lost us that game.
 
You're dreaming about those kind of per game numbers for a center in JB's system. Maybe he could approach them on a per 40 minute basis at some point, though.
I have faith or sometinglike that
 

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