Will Syracuse Football be better in 2021

[money3189]

Yeah, but you can't just leave 10 roster spots open. You can't do that.
I mean, that's like a basketball team saying, "we'll only have 7 scholarship guys this year".

If anybody gets hurt, what are you going to do? If you lost 15 guys in the portal, you have to replace those bodies, just to have a full team.

That might be too much work, or wasted effort?
Of course you have to coach them up. That's what they do every year.
Every coach installs an offense and a defense at the beginning of every season.
There are always personnel, and often coaching changes from season to season.
Every season is its own beast. Why go into the fight undermanned at the outset?

They ain’t going in under manned. Which position don’t have enough players? They can only bring in so many per cycle. We didnt lose many impact players. We have a lot of youth on the team. They need to coach them up. These are the kids they recruited and plan to have for 4 or 5 years. Hopefully the new coaches will do a better job at that. It’s only been a year and a half with most of the new staff members. Let’s see if they can coach these guys up.

I can tell you straight up. They went after a bunch of A listers and many didn’t sniff back. Picking up B and C listers out of the transfer portal won’t be the reason why we win or lose this year. They don’t guarantee more wins. They can come to Cuse and still have the same issues they had with their previous school. You can’t rely on bringing in guys every year not knowing if they will mesh, pick up the scheme, be coachable, be good team mates. Hard to gage a transfers character. Theyve known some of the HS kids for years before they walk on campus. “Just hit the portal”. It’s a easy thing to say but it harder to actually do. You get the wrong transfers and it can hurt your program more. Good transfers makes a difference. Not guys that are close to what you already have. Imo you are better off recruiting and coaching the kids you have and do it to the best of your ability. Small percentage should be focused on transfers.

 

[money3189]

The DQs to the early OL recruits were a tough break but that's why you've gotta adjust recruiting strategy and take in more bodies or go after transfers to fill in the gaps. The 2017 class brought in only 2 OL recruits, which has looked like a poor decision though with the benefit of hindsight.

Dino was hired not only to rebuild the program but to also make us entertaining on the field again, aka score some points. This offense scheme won't work if you're starting 3 star freshmen and sophomores on the OL every season.

I agree with that. They should have been more agressive replacing the guys that D'Qd. Its all in hindsight now. We saw how it hurt the last two seasons. Lets see how they adjust.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Perhaps the coaches are saving scholarships so they can bring in a "full" class in 2022.

Another reason not to bring in transfers. It's a buyer's market on the recruiting front once we get close to signing day. Fewer spots to go around than usual.

 

[syrBossHogg]

None of the DQ's being discusses happened until 2018, so the 2017 class may be irrelevant.

Besides, those two recruits in the 2017 class actually played in 54 games so far. Patrick Davis left early for the CFL and Dakota Davis will likely play in another 12 games this season.



I agree the recruiting strategy will need to be tweaked in order to compete in the ACC. Does he state of Ohio have any players?

My point about 2017 was that it was a light OL class numbers wise which became a huge issue when 2019 happened. That season after Heckel went down we ended up starting multiple true freshmen on the OL which should really never happen here. My theory is the earliest a player should be starting on the OL here is as a Redshirt Sophomore, or ideally a Redshirt Junior.

I can understand why the offense performance was terrible last year since the OL barely had healthy numbers to play, but in 2019 only a couple guys got hurt and the OL was still pretty awful.

Obviously, the staff shouldn't settle for guys all the time just to take bodies, but OL is too important of a position in football to gamble with.

 

[money3189]

My point about 2017 was that it was a light OL class numbers wise which became a huge issue when 2019 happened. That season after Heckel went down we ended up starting multiple true freshmen on the OL which should really never happen here. My theory is the earliest a player should be starting on the OL here is as a Redshirt Sophomore, or ideally a Redshirt Junior.

I can understand why the offense performance was terrible last year since the OL barely had healthy numbers to play, but in 2019 only a couple guys got hurt and the OL was still pretty awful.

Obviously, the staff shouldn't settle for guys all the time just to take bodies, but OL is too important of a position in football to gamble with.

Agree.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I agree with that. They should have been more agressive replacing the guys that D'Qd. Its all in hindsight now. We saw how it hurt the last two seasons. Lets see how they adjust.

I do think they've adjusted, they brought 5 guys in this recent class and multiple guys in 2020. And the graduation losses don't look that bad after this season. Hopefully Schmidt can coach them up and they can become a solid ACC unit.

 

[Scooch]

Perhaps the coaches are saving scholarships so they can bring in a "full" class in 2022. And, recruitment of the 2021 class was a bit of a crap shoot because of the restrictions; no in-person visits etc... coaches couldn't go out and see recruits in person. and recruits couldn't come see the campus and facilities either. I'm sure some of the young men who signed as part of the 2021 class actually came to campus this summer without having ever been to the campus before. Imagine that.

Also about half a dozen of the transfers were executed after the 2021 class was signed. So when were coaches supposed to sign replacements? And lastly, SU signed 24 players as part of the 2021 class (including transfers like Shrader and Simmons, 25 if Tyler had made it), so how many more players could they have brought in? 4 or 5 more if some early enrollees could be applied to the 2020 class (maybe)? Do you really want to "take a shot" on a few guys and be stuck with them for four years just to fill scholarships?

After 2021 we could lose as few as seven players who run out of eligibility after this season. Another 20 players (RS-Jr's, Jr's and RS-So's) will have been on campus for more than four years and could graduate. And of course, with the portal being what it is, every player could choose to leave.

It has to be a nightmare to manage a roster these days with all of the fluidity and uncertainty.

All reasonable points. I give the staff a lot of leeway, since this was an unprecedented offseason.

I just don't want to hear any excuses reasons about not having enough players to effectively practice, is all.

 

[cusefan88]

I think they see an advantage by having more slots available for class of 2022 and/or transfers. The extra year will create a weird imbalance and I think some good talent will be available for teams that have kept spots open.

 

[money3189]

I do think they've adjusted, they brought 5 guys in this recent class and multiple guys in 2020. And the graduation losses don't look that bad after this season. Hopefully Schmidt can coach them up and they can become a solid ACC unit.

Agree

 

[cusefan88]

Cuse can get away with a lot more on offense if they can run the ball inside again. Even in 2018 the pass protection wasn't great but they did get inside yards often.

I think the comment on Bleich is one to motivate someone who has lots of talent.

 

[RandomGuy]

It's been a weird offseason, so I don't blame the staff for most of the early departures necessarily. However, it does seem really strange to me that we didn't max out scholarships. Could we not have found another 4 or 5 guys who were worth taking a shot on? Just having more bodies to practice would seem to be useful, since we seem to trot out that excuse reason every year as a challenge we have to overcome.

I wonder if the super seniors count next year? While you'd think the extra covid year wouldn't count against the 85, maybe it does starting next year?

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Yes

 

[TheCusian]

Let's not get into the Doctor DQ discussion again.

Yeah, I’m not questioning the legitimacy of those things at all - just that they seem to fall outside of Dino’s control by design?

 

[TheCusian]

All reasonable points. I give the staff a lot of leeway, since this was an unprecedented offseason.

I just don't want to hear any excuses reasons about not having enough players to effectively practice, is all.

I see ya

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Hell yeah Syracuse football will be better in 2021.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Coach Babers referred to this as "roster churn" in a recent article.


33 players who could still be on the roster are not.

4 medically disqualified

4 professional football

22 transfers (13 since the end of 2020); Arron Hackett and Nykeim Johnson were contributors.

2 Did not enroll

1 disciplinary release



Sam Heckel C Medical DQ 2020

Michael Clark OL Medical DQ 2020

Liam Sullivan OL Medical DQ 2018

Patrick Davis OL CFL 2021

Gabe Horan Ol/TE Medical DQ 2019

Qadir White OL transfer 2021

Cooper Dawson OL transfer 2021

Kevin Lemieux DE transfer 2021

David Summers QB transfer 2021

Garrison Johnson RB transfer 2020

Kevin Johnson WR transfer 2020

Ed Hendrix WR transfer 2021

Andre Cisco S NFL 2021

Cam Jonas S transfer 2021

Trill Williams DB NFL 2021

Tre Allison OLB transfer 2019

Chance Amie QB transfer 2019

Juan Wallace LB transfer* 2020

Jawhar Jordan APB transfer 2021

Jason Munoz DL transfer 2020

Zach Morton DE transfer 2021

Justin Ellis DE transfer ?

Nadarius Fagan LB transfer 2019

Markenzy Pierre RB transfer 2021

Kadeem Trotter S transfer 2020

Ifeatu Melifonwu S NFL 2021

Arron Hackett TE transfer* 2021

Nykeim Johnson WR/Ret transfer* 2021

Drew Gunther QB transfer 2021

Tim Walton LB transfer 2019

Jaquwan Nelson DE released 2017

Jaelin Moss DL will not enroll 2021

Akeem Dixon RB Did not enroll 2018


13 transfers in one year is extremely high. An assistant coach left an poached a couple of players (chit happens). I suspect the coaches encouraged a few players to move on if they did not project as contributors.

This is only meaningful to me if I know how it compares to other programs.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

“So when you take guys like that (Secondary stars) out of the program and then you want to talk about, ‘Well, you’ve been here a certain amount of time; those guys should be ready to go,’ that’s really not fair. You can’t have it both ways.”

Shouldn't the guys you are recruiting be pushing the starters and ready to go when their number is called up. The more Dino is here the more he sounds and acts like Scott Shafer. Maybe the job does that to people.

 

[TheCusian]

“So when you take guys like that (Secondary stars) out of the program and then you want to talk about, ‘Well, you’ve been here a certain amount of time; those guys should be ready to go,’ that’s really not fair. You can’t have it both ways.”

Shouldn't the guys you are recruiting be pushing the starters and ready to go when their number is called up. The more Dino is here the more he sounds and acts like Scott Shafer. Maybe the job does that to people.

Yeah, that’s a Clemson thing, not a Syracuse thing. You don’t lose guys to the NFL here and have the guy behind them pushing them. You have young, talented kids you hope become that but are somewhere between serviceable and good. When you are a program that needs to develop guys it can take time - unexpected losses are harder to deal with.

 

[Ozone!]

Yes, how much better depends on:

• Coaching performance
• Player health
• Player mental focus
• Ol improvement
• Play calling that plays to our strengths and is strategic

We need to win the games we should and be competitive in all games!
That will enhance our recruiting efforts.

 

[two3zone]

Can we be worse?

 

[djorange1989]

Can we be worse?

we can, so please don't ask this question again, you may have unleashed a toxic jinx. will we be worse? nah. but, yes theoretically we could be

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Can we be worse?

In 1892 we went winless, so technically we can get worse. Of course, last year we were a Georgia Tech away from…..nope not going to go there. Have to look ahead.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Can we be worse?

Exactly

 

[tep624]

Refusal... Who said they weren't replaced or that the staff didn't try to replace them?

1 DQ in 2018 - 4 OL signed in the 2019 class (1 G xfer, 1 JC, 2 HS
1 DQ in 2019 - 2 OL signed in the 2020 class (that OL coach is no longer here)
2 DQ in 2020 - 6 OL signed in the 2021 class (1 JC, 5 HS)

Replacements take time to develop. It's rare, very rare, for an offensive linemen to be ready to step in an contribute in their first or second year on campus. And quite frankly, Syracuse doesn't have a great track record of landing the type of linemen who can contribute early in the ACC, this isn't the Big East anymore.

We should every single year be taking 1 above our quota on HS offensive linemen. It's our greatest opportunity to develop a quality 2 deep. Over the past 20 years we've done far better identifying developmental talent and targeting quality 3 star type prospects that maybe are a step too slow or an inch too short for the factories that become competent 3-4 years starters for us. Guys I think of here are Sean Hickey, Justin Pugh, Rob Trudo, Zach Chibane - most of the stalwarts of the Marrone era OL's were guys that were identified and developed and weren't 4 star prospects being chased by everyone and their grandmother.

The challenge with going lean on HS OL recruiting is that if you run into issues with DQ's, or players not developing, etc, then you're competing with every other team out there that has a hole for a small pool of starter quality JUCO's and Grad Transfers. And not for nothing, excluding Koda Martin because he wouldn't have been here if not for his father being on the staff, outside of Bleich who was recruited hard out of the portal, I have to go back to the Marrone era to really find 2-3 year quality starters that came in as upperclassmen - Tiller and Hay from Nassau CC. We also got a year out of John Miller at C during Shafer's first year in 2013 (another Marrone era find).

The 2016 class was really the start of our problems in this current era.

2016 - Heckel, Servais, Clark (DQ), O'Sullivan (DQ) (Noel Brouse and Cam DeGeorge Decommitted to UCONN after the coaching change)
2017 - Dakota Davis, Patrick Davis
2018 - Qadir White (Tr), Carlos Vettorello, Willem Froumy (Tyrone Sampson's offer was pulled due to misconduct - would have been our starting C for 3 years)
2019 - Anthony Red, Matthew Bergeron
2020 - Garth Barclay, Josh Illoa
2021 - Austyn Kauhi, Wes Hoeh, Kalan Ellis, Tyler Magnuson, Enrique Cruz
2022 - ?


JUCO's and Grad Transfers
2018 - Koda Martin (GT)
2019 - Darius Tisdale (JUCO), Ryan Alexander (GT)
2020 - Chris Bleich (GT), Mark Petry (JUCO)
2021 - Jakob Bradford (JUCO) (Willie Tyler - GT from Texas decommitted to Louisiana - Monroe)

Guys bolded in black have proven to be starter quality, guys bolded in red left early and had very little impact on the program.

We had 4 classes in a row 2017-2020 where the highest number of HS recruits we took in a year was 3. That's literally insane. And we were lucky in that 6 of the 9 have served on the 2 deep, with Barclay and Froumy the only ones I believe that haven't yet. White was a major miss in terms of recruiting buzz and sheer impact - a lockdown LT would have made a bigtime impact on the quality of the line.

You look at the list of JUCO's and GT's we have brought in during that period to plug gaps - none of them are real show stoppers outside of Martin and Bleich. Alexander was a complete disaster, Tisdale was the highest profile of the JUCO's and probably is a backup on the 2 deep on a healthy line at best. Which is fine if you have a healthy line - our biggest issue is that we didn't have enough quality starters to begin with and the most of the upperclassmen being brought in to plug those gaps were not of the quality to be able to do that as well.

 

[SUDadx2]

This is only meaningful to me if I know how it compares to other programs.

To put this into context one would need to read the underlying article.

This "roster churn" or turnover is unprecedented.

What can a school do if 20 players graduate and another 15 kids transfer (better NIL deals elsewhere), yet the number of incoming players is capped at 25?

Roster management has become a bigger issue than ever before.

Dino Babers says new scholarship rules are needed to keep up with roster churn: ‘It’s spooky times’

Babers wants rule changes in place to replenish the roster as a counter to robust player mobility.

www.syracuse.com