Will we ever be good again?!

[Townie72]

Syracuse will never be BCS good under Marrone, IMO 7-8 wins probably tops, which is fine. If you want to be BCS bowl good, Syracuse University and the boosters, fanbase, etc need to commit by spending a ton of money, coaches, facilities, everything. That will be the only way to bring in better talent as well, spend on facilities and spend on the coaches that can recruit.

People want to talk about playmakers but when I look at Wisconsin and Stanford outside of their great qb's, their playmakers are on their O Line, tremendous O Line play. Our biggest weakness

First, SU isn't going to spend a "ton of money" unless it addresses a very significant threat. And that threat just doesn't exist. A few years ago they upgraded much of the student housing becuase the school was felt to be non-competitive with it's peers. Spending "a ton of money" isn't in the cards. It isn't going to happen. Period.

Secondly -- related to the first --- there is no guarantee that all this investment will yield significant results. And creating a Taj Mahal of football facilities will create all sorts of ill will on campus from every other group. CNY isn't Oklahoma or Alabama where football is core to the university, the student body and the alumni.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

First, SU isn't going to spend a "ton of money" unless it addresses a very significant threat. And that threat just doesn't exist. A few years ago they upgraded much of the student housing becuase the school was felt to be non-competitive with it's peers. Spending "a ton of money" isn't in the cards. It isn't going to happen. Period.

Secondly -- related to the first --- there is no guarantee that all this investment will yield significant results. And creating a Taj Mahal of football facilities will create all sorts of ill will on campus from every other group. CNY isn't Oklahoma or Alabama where football is core to the university, the student body and the alumni.

well there you have it and while I see your points as valid. Townie, when is the last time you toured SU's football facilities? We need a serious infusion of capital just to stay the course, when I say a ton of money I mean by Syracuse standards. Just my opinion but this program needs it regardless of who the coaches are. Whether Marrone makes it or not, the next coach will need the upgrades to be a contender

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There is one thing and one thing only that makes us unique among BCS programs.

We are the only BCS program that plays in a Dome.

Let that sink in for a minute. Go ahead and look it up if you don't believe. There are very few Domes in all of college football, and only one that houses a BCS program. And we're it.

So... if we're going to be great, it makes sense to me that the thing that will get is there is the one thing that no one else offers.

AND THEN WE SEE THE MESS OF AN OFFENSE WE HAVE, AND I REALIZE WE ARE PERFECTLY CONTENT TO PISS AWAY THE ONE ADVANTAGE WE CAN SELL IN FAVOR OF A MUDDY VISION AND GAME PLANNING FOR A MIRACLE AT THE END OF A SLUGFEST.

 

[44cuse]

I can't help but wonder how the program would have done undr Chip Kelly.

Chip Kelly was not the most popular choice on this board if I recall correctly.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

honestly next year the big east is wide open again...cinci has no qb( i understand they beat us without one), rutgers wont be touched by an angle and Sanu is prob gone. S Fla wil underwhlem again, and they arent really have a good tiem recruiting, Daniels could put it together, but I doubt it. Pitt with another coaching change will be dicey in Chryst first year, however he will be a good coach there. Uconn has no recruiting and if we lose to them again its an joke, their rb is only legit player. WVU will be the favorite, but their defense isnt getting any better. LVille under Strong seem to be building something and I am a little worrisome of them, but they arent a powerhouse.

We weren't good enough this year and the BE was wide open.

44cuse

 

[Chip]

Really? No reason at all?

I'm much more optimistic than many of my posts may come across.

But I'm much more pessimistic about 2012 than I've been in a long time when looking forward to a season. I see a lot of the same ghosts haunting this team, talent (assuming it's on the way) being too young, offensive scheme being play not to lose, Chandler's depature ensuring another year with a senior class that's light on #'s and light on leadership.

Please surprise me SU.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm much more optimistic than many of my posts may come across.

But I'm much more pessimistic about 2012 than I've been in a long time when looking forward to a season. I see a lot of the same ghosts haunting this team, talent (assuming it's on the way) being too young, offensive scheme being play not to lose, Chandler's depature ensuring another year with a senior class that's light on #'s and light on leadership.

Please surprise me SU.

ON paper, next year should be worse than this year with what we have lost, now who knows. Could be a real disaster for sure but then again, we lost a ton the year before and looked like we were going to be fine until the last 5, the lack of sneior leadership shows in Nov/ Dec. We will be picked dead last in the BE next year

 

[rosconey]

i get depressed just looking at the ooc schedule-

 

[GoSU96]

We'll be relevant again. As to how good? What is good? I'll take 8-4 every year with the occasional 9-3, 10-2, 7-5. During the exciting McNabb years we never finished higher than 19th ranked so top 10 finishes will be rare.

Sent from my DROIDX

That was never good enough, remember.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That was never good enough, remember.

4 and 8, 6 and 6, 6 and 6 sounds like a far cry from what Bees described.

 

[SaintTristan]

If Boise St, Stanford, and TCU can, we certainly can. Will we ever be Ohio St or Bama, probably not. But I certainly expect we can field a team that can play with most schools once every five years or so.

What? Stanford is the best school in the country. Look at its recruiting. it gets players by snapping its fingers. TCU is in recruit-rich texas. Boise has an exceptional coach.

SU isnt stanford. Upstate NY is piss poor in terms of recruiting. Our coach sucks.

SU might be good again if it finds itself a great coach, but comparing it to those three schools is silly.

 

[GoSU96]

Is there a belief in the community or those on this board that feel we'll ever be really good again? I don't mean 7-8 win, I mean BCS bowl good.

I'm watching all of these games and the separation between them and the Cuse is just enormous. And it's everywhere. It's their offensive ability, the D, the adjustments made during the game and at half, the absolute emotion the players and coaches give off, the ability for the players to make the 2nd and 3rd guy miss, the accuracy of the qb, the hands of the receivers, the breakaway speed of the rb's, the hard hits, and perhaps the most obvious to me, is the speed of everyone.

Nope, never.

Doomed forever.

Get used to it.

 

[GoSU96]

4 and 8, 6 and 6, 6 and 6 sounds like a far cry from what Bees described.

Obviously you don't remember people bitching about the results from 1991 to 2001 as not being good enough while it was happening.

 

[Chip]

That was never good enough, remember.

It was good enough in general. People were just surprised that we couldn't get through at least one of those seasons with less than 3 losses. I still look back and don't believe it. Pretty much only one other school in the northeast was participating in 1A football those days.

But because Greg Robinson was such a terrible head coach, the 3 losses per year in the McNabb era are officially justified.

 

[Noexcuse]

There's good and there's great. Good is how you define it, but I think it's playing a strong OOC schedule and coming up with 7-8 wins per year plus a chance to win a middle of the pack bowl game. Great would be 10 to 11 wins plus a BCS invite. It gets a lot harder to be great with the move to the ACC at least in the short term. BTW, dropping USC and playing Buffalo (eg) instead and beating either Rutgers or UConn and getting the bowl invite this year would have been "good".

 

[VirginiaOrange]

Baylor is the most amazing story in both major sports - football and basketball - as it is one of the most conservative Christian schools in the country located in one of the most conservative places in the US (makes BYU look like a party school). Texas recruiting or not - if Baylor can get kids to spend 4 years there, SU should be able to do it.

 

[Townie72]

well there you have it and while I see your points as valid. Townie, when is the last time you toured SU's football facilities? We need a serious infusion of capital just to stay the course, when I say a ton of money I mean by Syracuse standards. Just my opinion but this program needs it regardless of who the coaches are. Whether Marrone makes it or not, the next coach will need the upgrades to be a contender

I guess my issue with this post of yours is that --- just like your suggestion that SU get a big, tough, agile offensive line --- its one of those things that is "easy to say and extremely hard to do". But having recommended it you can step back and say, "Hey, I told them what to do. Now all they have to do is implement it.".

If greatly upgraded faciliteis and superior atheletes --- starting with the OL --- are the minimum SU needs to be competitive, then many here better start thinking about rooting for their favorite SEC team.

Here's the reality.

There isn't going to be any huge new investment in FB facilities. SU might "benchmark" schools like Maryland and Virginia and achieve parity. I haven't been in the SU facilities but I have been all through Maryland's new facilities. They spent a ton and it hasn't seemed to help all that much.

Marrone is the coach for the forseeable future. As long as he appears to be making medium range progress (not year to year), Gross will not fire him. Among the reasons for this is that Gross can't afford another FB coaching failure on his resume.

SU is going to have to compete with rest of the Northeastern schools for a relatively small pool of very good football players.

This is going to be a long, slow slog up the hill much like it was in the Maloney and early Mac years. We are about 60% of the way up the Hill.

The good news is that the move to the ACC will open up some doors in the Mid-Atlantic and puts us in a better position than Rutgers and UConn for the NJ-NY-CT recuits. Sooner or later their move to the CUSA 2 will catch up to them.

 

[Townie72]

Baylor is the most amazing story in both major sports - football and basketball - as it is one of the most conservative Christian schools in the country located in one of the most conservative places in the US (makes BYU look like a party school). Texas recruiting or not - if Baylor can get kids to spend 4 years there, SU should be able to do it.

You really don't understand the scope and depth of Texas high school football.

TCU was able to become nationally-competitive just by picking up the players the major schools didn't want.

I agree with you on Baylor. But TCU is similar as a conservative Christian school.

 

[Cusefan78]

We will never be good until the infrastructure is upgraded.

The dome- yeah its a dome but it's a crumbling place with video boards that were obsolete the day they were installed. Go to a Rutgers game and check out their board. Bright and clear! The locker rooms are small and dank. Instead of ribbon lighting we have banners that are filthy. Face the facts it's depressing

Fans- Syracuse is a fair weather town and face the facts if the basketball was bad, attendance would be lacking like it is in football. Imagine being a recruit and coming to a game and seeing 18000 in the stadium sitting on there hands screaming down in front. Now I'm not blaming the fans because that product they put out is embarrassing.

Practice facilities- outdoors surrounded by a blue tarp. Yeah that looks professional. Might as well be playing at the pit in Solvay. This in my opinion is as huge problem and if upgraded recruiting would improve. I'm not even going to touch Manley. What a joke

Coach- the only bright sides is shafer and wheatley. Shafer knows he's going to give up the big plays but we have to attack because of our lacking talent. Wheatley is a recruiting stud. Hackett he's too young and inexperienced and in my opionon he's only suggesting plays. Marrone is calling them

Marrone- have you ever seen my big fat Greek wedding rememeber how the parents keep calling the other parents toast. Well that is Marrone. I own my own company and have young adults working for me. Kids these days need to be motivated and when a coach is talking about is bologna sandwiches that's not cutting the mustard. Excuse the pun. Look at the winning coaches; Kelly, Saban, Myers, ... They are spit fires and are constantly pushing their guys. Conley may not have been a recruiter but that guy bleeds orange and was jumping around and getting after the guys. That's what we need.

Play calling- sorry boys this is all on Marrone. No offensive line but yet we run a small back up the middle 8 plays in a row for ten yards. We play in the dome and yes we don't have the players now but we need to run a high octane offense. Our line breaks down all the time. I know this is taboo but why not run a few option plays to keep the guys honest.

Now take all that for what it's worth, but I bleed orange and love Syracuse athletics especially football.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Obviously you don't remember people bitching about the results from 1991 to 2001 as not being good enough while it was happening.

Oh that's the time period you were referring to.

 

[Noexcuse]

We will never be good until the infrastructure is upgraded.

The dome- yeah its a dome but it's a crumbling place with video boards that were obsolete the day they were installed. Go to a Rutgers game and check out their board. Bright and clear! The locker rooms are small and dank. Instead of ribbon lighting we have banners that are filthy. Face the facts it's depressing

Fans- Syracuse is a fair weather town and face the facts if the basketball was bad, attendance would be lacking like it is in football. Imagine being a recruit and coming to a game and seeing 18000 in the stadium sitting on there hands screaming down in front. Now I'm not blaming the fans because that product they put out is embarrassing.

Practice facilities- outdoors surrounded by a blue tarp. Yeah that looks professional. Might as well be playing at the pit in Solvay. This in my opinion is as huge problem and if upgraded recruiting would improve. I'm not even going to touch Manley. What a joke

Coach- the only bright sides is shafer and wheatley. Shafer knows he's going to give up the big plays but we have to attack because of our lacking talent. Wheatley is a recruiting stud. Hackett he's too young and inexperienced and in my opionon he's only suggesting plays. Marrone is calling them

Marrone- have you ever seen my big fat Greek wedding rememeber how the parents keep calling the other parents toast. Well that is Marrone. I own my own company and have young adults working for me. Kids these days need to be motivated and when a coach is talking about is bologna sandwiches that's not cutting the mustard. Excuse the pun. Look at the winning coaches; Kelly, Saban, Myers, ... They are spit fires and are constantly pushing their guys. Conley may not have been a recruiter but that guy bleeds orange and was jumping around and getting after the guys. That's what we need.

Play calling- sorry boys this is all on Marrone. No offensive line but yet we run a small back up the middle 8 plays in a row for ten yards. We play in the dome and yes we don't have the players now but we need to run a high octane offense. Our line breaks down all the time. I know this is taboo but why not run a few option plays to keep the guys honest.

Now take all that for what it's worth, but I bleed orange and love Syracuse athletics especially football.

Big Fat Greek Wedding reference. That's all I'll say.

 

[GoSU96]

Oh that's the time period you were referring to.

No, that's the period Bees was refering to.

 

[Marsh01]

You might be on to something. I just never could warm up to watching us play USF, Cinci, Louisville . . . . There definitely is more of a buzz when the traditional rivals come in.

I know for sure it will create a better buzz. Teams we never play, let alone play at home will certainly generate better attendance numbers. How long will that last? Not sure but I am pretty sure it will help right away.

 

[kingottoiii]

I'm much more optimistic than many of my posts may come across.

But I'm much more pessimistic about 2012 than I've been in a long time when looking forward to a season. I see a lot of the same ghosts haunting this team, talent (assuming it's on the way) being too young, offensive scheme being play not to lose, Chandler's depature ensuring another year with a senior class that's light on #'s and light on leadership.

Please surprise me SU.

We will need to see how the schedule plays out but as of now 2012 might be the season I am least looking forward to ever. On paper we look at lot worse than 2011. We have 6 to 7 BE games (depending on WV) and 3 BCS OOC games. Add in the usual 1AA and that is one hard schedule. Then we have 1 to 2 that need to be scheduled (depending on WV).

2005 new HC
2006 hope that we can't get any worse
2007 hope that we turn the corner
2008 waiting to fire GRob and thinking about next HC
2009 new HC
2010 hope that make Bowl
2011 hope that make Bowl
2012 ???

 

[Noexcuse]

We will need to see how the schedule plays out but as of now 2012 might be the season I am least looking forward to ever. On paper we look at lot worse than 2011. We have 6 to 7 BE games (depending on WV) and 3 BCS OOC games. Add in the usual 1AA and that is one hard schedule. Then we have 1 to 2 that need to be scheduled (depending on WV).

2005 new HC
2006 hope that we can't get any worse
2007 hope that we turn the corner
2008 waiting to fire GRob and thinking about next HC
2009 new HC
2010 hope that make Bowl
2011 hope that make Bowl
2012 ???

2012: Take lumps early, show progress as the season progresses, get some late season wins, create optimism for 2013. Hope 12/21/12 passes without incident.