Will winning it all silence Boeheim's critics?

[shermstheman]

Only a moron would not credit JB as one of the elite coaches of time- win or lose. I suppose you can debate where he is on the all time list, top 5, 10 etc. For some reason some people bash JB. He was hot headed in the earlier years and does lash out at the press occasionally- I guess people hold that against him. It'd be nice if he could keep his finger from his nose- maybe that bothers some critics!

 

[4evaOrange]

Nope, it will not silence them.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Guys, I vividly remember reading the Louisville board within the last 2-3 years and they were absolutely foaming at the mouth wanting Pitino fired. They would have tarred and feathered the guy at that moment if they could. Hell I can't even remember what outrage caused it, probably the 2011 first round loss, but I recall it being more mid-season. Maybe when they were 14-5 in 2012 (before getting to a surprise FF).

This is the lot in life for coaches. Its why they make big bucks.

 

[jncuse]

Final four as 3, 4 and 4 seed. May be record for number of 3+ seeds to send to final four.

 

[OttoMets]

Final four as 3, 4 and 4 seed. May be record for number of 3+ seeds to send to final four.

Cool stat. That'd be a good research project. Izzo has a pair of 5s; next worst Final Four seed is a 2 for him.

 

[JohnCuse44]

Maybe but it will sure silence them when he wins another next year!

 

[CiceroCuse]

Only a moron would not credit JB as one of the elitecoaches of time- win or lose. I suppose you can debate where he is on the all time list, top 5, 10 etc. For some reason some people bash JB. He was hot headed in the earlier years and does lash out at the press occasionally- I guess people hold that against him. It'd be nice if he could keep his finger from his nose- maybe that bothers some critics!

I totally agree. He is an elite coach no matter where you rankmhim all time. Top 5 or 10. Doesn"t really matter. I think one of the greatest comPliments one can get is when you are considered an "innovator" and he is truly that with development of the zone defense. You can bet there are no less than 50 college coaches are looking at the intricacies of his zone and how to implement it. As they say, imitation is the best form of flattery.

 

[zhanjuzi]

No, his legacy has been cemented because of how dominant our zone looks right now. (Basically gets cemented assuming we play 2 more games where our zone looks this good so unless everyones last memory of this team is of Michigan/LVille dropping 80-90 on us which is unlikely his legacy will be firmly cemented as a top 5 coach both currently and all time.)

The adulation Boeheim will get is going to be deserved and it will be because of our D. And considering the fact that we play a much cleaner defensive game than all the other good defenses this year all the praise Boeheim gets will be well deserved.

This.

JB's use of the zone with the national attention it is getting now it absolutely amazing. No one is even discussing the offense .. its incredible. No one is doing what he is doing .. changing the way the game is played .. a great coach and great innovator. When he retires I am going to be one very very sad dude.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Nope, it will not silence them.

It will silence most of them.

 

[Oakland]

the same question was asked just about 10 years ago...

And the same question was raised again 6-8 years ago, with good reasons.

 

[CaptainJ]

It would be nice if I could do like a sports book and figure out some over/under or some other way to make money off this

 

[DeGrozz]

Depends on whether they get the internet back up and running in Florida.

 

[BuffOrange]

Discussing whether he needs to win it all shows you how people love to move goalposts. Exactly two years ago, the arbitrary criteria for a top-notch program or coach or whatever for his detractors was Elite 8's. Not conference titles, not Sweet 16's, not championship game appearances, no. Elite 8's are where it's at they decided...except that Donovan is getting killed after getting there three years in a row at the basketball powerhouse known as Florida. Oh well. Now after getting there two years in a row and a F4, the benchmark will be something else.

 

[SWC75]

Boeheim is a great coach but he does have a reputation of under achieving in march and often times people say it was more Melo than him in 03. Would winning it all help elevate him past all of that and finally get the respect he deserves?

It didn't last time. The theory offered by his critics is that Carmelo Anthony won it for us and any coach would have won it with him. It would be interesting to see what they come up with this time. There certainly isn't a Carmelo Anthony on this team.

 

[BuffOrange]

It didn't last time. The theory offered by his critics is that Carmelo Anthony won it for us and any coach would have won it with him. It would be interesting to see what they come up with this time. There certainly isn't a Carmelo Anthony on this team.

Sure but Carmelo wasn't Carmelo before they won it all. He was a really good player but "just a freshman". He was no T.J. Ford. If MCW becomes a good pro they'll have that.

 

[SWC75]

No.
It will squelch and delay the arguments, though. If you don't like the way he coaches, you'll be appeased by the win, but it won't change what you don't like.

I think that's what's misunderstood. You can love something and not love every single thing about it. You can appreciate something and still wish it were a little bit different. I'm not sure why 'fandom' has to be so cut and dried and black and white.

I like some of who JB is. I dislike some of who JB is. He's given us a remarkably consistent program. I wish we won more. We won a NC under him, and i think his loyalty and that consistency have earned him the right to determine his future. But, that's not an absolute right, and it doesn't earn anyone a free pass on every choice or decision they make. The games are still up for discussion and debate between reasonable people.

And, maybe, among those 'reasonable people,' we can determine what is "great." How many active coaches are "great?" And what determines it? Longevity? Total wins? Actual in-game strategy? Preparation? There are those who will only look at a win total, and that's enough. Others will dissect matters... Personally, my list of "great" college coaches doesn't extend past 5.

The key is to see both sides and give both credit and criticism when it's due.

 

[SWC75]

Sure but Carmelo wasn't Carmelo before they won it all. He was a really good player but "just a freshman". He was no T.J. Ford. If MCW becomes a good pro they'll have that.

And we also won it because of GMAC, Hak, Kueth, Billy, Josh, Forth and the zone, etc. etc.

 

[HoustonCuse]

And we also won it because of GMAC, Hak, Kueth, Billy, Josh, Forth and the zone, etc. etc.

Yep, until he beats Louisville by suiting up himself and whips em 1 on 5, I don't see how you could call him an elite coach. I really don't.

 

[thebigeast44]

There are people who have never liked JB and winning this year will have limited effect on them. It may shut them up for awhile but they will come back. They ALWAYS come back.

 

[4evaOrange]

It will silence most of them.

There will still be a whole lot of people that take that NCAA Tourney approach that he didn't get to the F4 enough, and he didn't get more titles.
Although another title will look very good on his resume...

 

[IthacaMatt]

This.

JB's use of the zone with the national attention it is getting now it absolutely amazing. No one is even discussing the offense .. its incredible. No one is doing what he is doing .. changing the way the game is played .. a great coach and great innovator. When he retires I am going to be one very very sad dude.

I like the comment about us playing "clean" defense. Nice term. Good observation, in this era of clutch and grab defense. It's like every team became a clone of the defense of John Thompson the Elder's old Georgetown teams.

 

[SBU72]

And I was going to start a thread about how making the FF with a team that had a 5-7 swoon and was able to score on 39 points in its last regular season game should be enough to confirm that JB is more than just a good coach, but a great coach and is still there. I'll admit his faults but won't deny that he is a very, very, very good coach. Now you go and do it but saying he has to win it all to do that. I'm trying to grasp why anybody would think not winning a NC this year is under achieving? They had to beat a #1 seed and #3 seed to get to the FF and are a 2 point dog in their first game. Everything they have done from the S16 on is over achieving by those standards!

 

[kuethstheman]

And I was going to start a thread about how making the FF with a team that had a 5-7 swoon and was able to score on 39 points in its last regular season game should be enough to confirm that JB is more than just a good coach, but a great coach and is still there. I'll admit his faults but won't deny that he is a very, very, very good coach. Now you go and do it but saying he has to win it all to do that. I'm trying to grasp why anybody would think not winning a NC this year is under achieving? They had to beat a #1 seed and #3 seed to get to the FF and are a 2 point dog in their first game. Everything they have done from the S16 on is over achieving by those standards!

The question isn't whether he's over-achieving this year or if he's a very good coach. It's whether or not over-achieving once every 10 years will silence critics that think he's under-achieved more times than not.

 

[SBU72]

The question isn't whether he's over-achieving this year or if he's a very good coach. It's whether or not over-achieving once every 10 years will silence critics that think he's under-achieved more times than not.

"once every 10 years" is an incorrect stat. His first was 1987. That's 26 years. So its 4 FF's in 26 years. At worse since he has been coaching only 37 years, thats 4 in 37 years or once every 9.25 years. The once every decade comes from being there in the past 4 decades not every 10 years.

 

[kuethstheman]

"once every 10 years" is an incorrect stat. His first was 1987. That's 26 years. So its 4 FF's in 26 years. At worse since he has been coaching only 37 years, thats 4 in 37 years or once every 9.25 years. The once every decade comes from being there in the past 4 decades not every 10 years.

All good points but I don't think 9.25 vs. 10 is going to silence the critics either. Do you?

Also, he's over-achieved more times than just when he's made the FF but it doesn't change the perception that the team has under-achieved a lot more than it's over-achieved.