With all the offensive and ST problems, this game is 100% on the coaches

[bevosu]

I agree it isn't a terrible call to take the points, but we had less than 1/2 a yard to go for a first down at the 1. 4th and less than a yard for a 1st down...we should have gone for it. If it was 4th and goal I might have wavered a bit.

 

[orangepassion]

Worst coached game I have seen in years, and I'm talking from a mental standpoint. Forget the strange play calling by Hackett in the first half (more than strange, horrible actually), the decisions made by Marrone and this staff in some key moments is mind boggling. The 3 that absolutely killed me and others with me were;

1. First and goal at the 4 and we call a quick hitter pass play to a true frosh? I hated the call in the first place on first down but we run it to a true frosh and it bounces off him for an INT? I get that that play you like a taller WR, so since we don't have an experienced tall WR...you don't run it. Plain and simple. It's not like Foster was a check down, it was the play called.

2. Up 10 and they are punting from their end zone with Rene standing at the 50 for the return. THAT IS WHEN YOU PUT ON THE RETURN! Down 10, fine go after the punt. But you are ahead and how many times do we block punts? The coaches put Wilkes in the position to fail, plain and simple.

3. 4th and 6 inches in OT and we play wussy and kick the FG? Way to inject confidence in the OL. I know if we don't get it we lose on a FG, but if we don't have the confidence to get 6 inches to possibly win the game, well just pack it up. If the OL is that unreliable then we are in big trouble because right now there is not much at all behind them.

As bad s Nassib was, as bad as the specials were today, the coaches did not trust this team to win today. The players put themselves in a position to win even though we had many issues, but the coach's, on a number of occasions, instead of allowing the players to play to win, they instead chose to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Kudos to Shafer and the defense especially Davis and Lyn. Two future all league players and maybe more. Davis is Hogue or Bullock in the making.

The only other thing I was surprised about was just how bad Rutgers is. They can point to the scoreboard, but if we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot a number of times, they should have been looking at about a 30-3 score in the 3rd quarter.

I hope this week, instead of worrying that people might find out that your back up RB is hurt, they spend some time looking in the mirror.

1+3 is what stuck out to me the most. You're running the ball well and have 3 chances in the 5-yard line. You're not playing Alabama out there. Just shocking. As for #3, when we went for the FG, I knew it was over. Besides that you're kicker didn't convert 2 very makeable field goals and an extra point-You're not going to get a better shot at 7 than 4th and inches inside the 2. As a matter of fact, I had more confidence in us getting a 1st down there, than making a chippy FG. Ironically, I think the FG was the bigger gamble.
I don't think I've seen a more frustrating game over an inferior opponent ever. I would be remiss if I didn't give kudos to Shafer (our best Coach) and our D, despite dropping 5 easy int's, 2 of which would probably have been pick-6. If/when we lose Shafer, we're in big trouble.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Wilkes never touched the Punter. He's obviously enrolled in the San San Te school of acting. Either way, you should never put yourself in that position...

 

[Rocco]

The loudest the Dome was today was when the crowd was booing at the 4th and 6 inches FG call on the goal-line. That was tough to swallow. I don't understand why not go for it there.

Why isn't West starting? He is by far the best looking receiver (no homo) on the team. Van gets pushed around way too much. Lemon is good at getting open, but has alot of drops and doesn't aggressively go after the ball when it is a poor throw. West is physical, big and has good hands. Time to make some changes.

We have ZERO 3rd and short offense. At 6'2" 230 lbs, Nassib should be running QB sneaks behind Tiller on 3rd and 1's. Bailey doesn't hit the holes fast enough.

I guess I never noticed this before, but Krautman has an extremely low trajectory on his kicks. Wayyyy too easy to get batted down at the line. Case and point was today.

There were maybe 3 plays today that Nassib threw the ball over 20 yards?? I do not understand why they won't stretch the field. Makes it way too easy for opposing defenses to cheat.

That Phil Thomas dropped pick-6 was HORRRRRRRIBLE. Stop thinking about your endzone dance before you get there.

 

[Bornorange]

We had at least four interceptions dropped by our defenders.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Absolutely those missed kicks killed us no matter what the problem was and the offense made a million mistakes. But I guess my point is, those mistakes were ones of commission or execution or what I like to say at work, tactical mistakes. It's the strategic mistakes that baffles me even more.

Agree Rick, but while the strategic mistakes were baffling it was the execution that actually cost us the game.

Missed kicks, dropped passes, dropped pick sixes, dumbass penalties, etc. If we had simply executed SOME of that better...it didn't even have to be all of it, just some...we'd have won despite strategic head-scratchers

 

[kingottoiii]

Wilkes never touched the Punter. He's obviously enrolled in the San San Te school of acting. Either way, you should never put yourself in that position...

Refs should have called running into not roughing. I am shocked RU gets any calls the way Shady acts on the sideline always in the ref's face. You would think the refs would hate that but apparently they listen.

 

[SoBristol]

Can't complain about the Refs -- calls seemed to even up. Strangest call was the one that negated the Rutgers TD on the return, because two players got tangled up 30 yds behind the play.
On 4th and a foot, you have to go for it in OT to get the win -- unless you have no confidence in your C and the OGs. You get second-guessed if the play gets stuffed, but you still play to win.
Granted, Marrone's approach almost worked when defense held Rutgers to a FG, then another FG, and SU in the second OT had positive yardage before the Bailey fumble.
And I still want a coach who wants his OL to convert on 4th and a foot in that situation.

 

[orange03]

The only thing I disagree with is the FG in OT. You have to take the points.

If they don't pick-up the first down everyone on this board would be ripping Marrone for not taking the 3 points and giving the game to Rutgers.

We had two downs to pick up 6 inches. Play to win.

 

[DezisOrange]

As you go about developing this "offensive juggernaut", I think about player devlopment in game situations. Seems like for years now we "never seem to find the right situation" to get inexperienced players game time. So what comes first, chicken or egg? Do you really want Ant running between the tackles as often as he does no matter how sucessful? (this has nothing to do with his fumbles)? Yeah you finally use JS a couple of times but when was his previous game experience? I watched Nassib take that hit under the chinstrap and i'm thinking, what happens next? Who goes out there? Whats the backups game expeience? We aren't good enough to have a 35 point lead at any point and time so that you can feel comfortable giving others a play or a series. Yet, if you have a sudden injury you have to put the same inexperienced players out there immediately. And possibly for a long period of time. I'm not "calling" for any one in particular we just need to be prepared and how are we gonna do that with the offense not moving.

 

[Cuseman78]

Agree Rick, but while the strategic mistakes were baffling it was the execution that actually cost us the game.

Missed kicks, dropped passes, dropped pick sixes, dumbass penalties, etc. If we had simply executed SOME of that better...it didn't even have to be all of it, just some...we'd have won despite strategic head-scratchers

Agree with this. This was unquestionably a poorly-coached offensive game yet could have been overcome with better execution by the players on the field. That's the consolation I get from this game is that we were poorly coached and executed poorly yet they had to take us to Double OT to beat us.

 

[qdawgg]

I'm with Dick and Cuseman on this one. If you take away all the drops (or a few of them and this has plagued us in almost every game) then all of a sudden the offensive playcalling doesn't look as bad. Van Chew dropped a pass on a big 3rd down and at this point I don't even remember the rest but there were definitely drops by our players.

I'm not completely defending everything the staff did, there are some playcalling decisions and long-term offensive game plans I just don't understand. But, last week people complained that we ran the ball 3 plays in a row and didn't get a first down. This week the coaching staff is wrong for not running the ball 3 plays in a row. It just doesn't make sense to complain about everything.

Another example, for at least a couple of weeks quite a few people have complained why don't we see some of the other WR's and I agree that West should be in the game a lot more with plays called for him. But I personally think the decision to throw the ball to Foster was a brilliant decision. Who's going to be covering Foster, what defense is expecting a TD play to be called specifically for him, and who would expect it on first down. That is smart - gutsy playcalling that a lot of people have been calling for. Then when plays like that are called, the coaches are wrong for doing it. That play is a smart play, you see it used in college football all the time. In the endzone throw the ball to the guy that nobody expects to get it. Great call - not very good execution. Execution is not the fault of the coaches in many of the situations from yesterday.

The defense played a hell of a game, reminds me of my Bears where the offense is terrible all game and the defense is on the field for long stretches of time. 1 big problem, there were no less then 3 interceptions that the defense should have picked off that would have been huge. I forget who but one player missed 3 by himself. There was 1 that could have resulted in a TD and another one that definitely would have resulted in a TD had the ball not been knocked out of the players hands by his legs as he started to take off for the endzone.

Given all that. The defense may end up saving our @sses more this year more then we imagined they would or could. The corners did a hell of a job on their WR's who are significantly bigger and taller. They have improved a lot since the beginning of the year and it allowed Shafer to call a lot of blitzes and be aggressive, which is how we won many big games last year; on the road of course.

The defense is turning into a nice surprise and the offense has turned into a different type of a surprise. Very worried that the only real improvement I have seen is in the offensive line. This is a good improvement to have and should result in more first downs and TD's but it's not. I'm really concerned about the WR's, I thought Lemon would have another solid year and the Van Chew would have a break-out year.

I guess I should have just started my own thread

 

[Millhouse]

Doug did hold himself accountable for this at his presser. He didn't fess up to the other things ... but this may have been the biggest boneheaded move. The other moves you can make a case (even if it's a shitty one) but this one really has no argument.

going for a block there might tell you all you need to know about what marrone thinks of his offense.

 

[qdawgg]

going for a block there might tell you all you need to know about what marrone thinks of his offense.

Another great example. People have complained before when we don't "try to get after the punter". This time we did, the wrong penalty was called and that is a bad decision by the coaching staff. Since when do people cry about trying to block a punt in the endzone in a close game. Very strange.

 

[rrlbees]

If you take away all the drops (or a few of them and this has plagued us in almost every game) then all of a sudden the offensive playcalling doesn't look as bad.

But I personally think the decision to throw the ball to Foster was a brilliant decision. Who's going to be covering Foster, what defense is expecting a TD play to be called specifically for him, and who would expect it on first down. That is smart - gutsy playcalling that a lot of people have been calling for.

I'm really concerned about the WR's, I thought Lemon would have another solid year and the Van Chew would have a break-out year.

I don't think there are as many drops as people think. Some drops are passes that are thrown behind the receivers. How many drops and by whom did we really have yesterday? Maybe my definition of "dropped" is different than someone elses. e've certainly had dropped passes this year but not at the frequency that some talk about.

The call to Foster had nothing to do with surprising the defense. It wasn't a play down field where the defense said to themselves, lets not worry about that guy they'll never throw to a true frosh. It was a quick hitter or pop pass type thing. The defense doesn't would have played it the same way no matter who was there.

As to Lemon having another solid year, he's having a far better year than last year? Not sure who you think he is less than last year. He has 1 drop on the season, leads the team in receptions, yards and TD receptions, is 3rd in the BE in receptions and will become the all time SU leader in pass receptions. I don't think we go to him enough except for the fact he is drawing some double coverage now.

 

[Ghost]

Another great example. People have complained before when we don't "try to get after the punter". This time we did, the wrong penalty was called and that is a bad decision by the coaching staff. Since when do people cry about trying to block a punt in the endzone in a close game. Very strange.

I think the complaint has to do with the timing here. If we're down late or down 20 points, you HAVE to go after the punter. Hell, if we're tied and our offense is looking horrendous you may go after the punter. If you have a two possession lead, and worst case scenario is you get the ball at the 50 yard line - you don't go for the block. I don't think anyone would complain about not going after the punt in that situation.

 

[rrlbees]

Another great example. People have complained before when we don't "try to get after the punter". This time we did, the wrong penalty was called and that is a bad decision by the coaching staff. Since when do people cry about trying to block a punt in the endzone in a close game. Very strange.

Who are these "people"? I know it is a small sample but I didn't hear a single person in my section yelling to go after the punter. All I heard were people saying how great the D had just done and we were in position to get great field position. Bad ref call? Sure (although I don't know yet if college has running into the kicker like the Pro's do). But this is one of the examples I made last night about the team (the D stuffing them) putting themselves in a position to have success and then the coaches putting them in a position to fail. No guarantee that we'd get points out of it, but what were the chances we would block a punt? I'd say the chances for roughing were greater than the chances for a block. We were up 10 not down 10. You take more risk when you are behind. Of all the decisions, this is the one that even Marrone mentioned that maybe he'd like to have back.

 

[orangepassion]

In theory, I have no problem going after the punter. The problem I have is why we rarely go after a kicker, yety when we do, can't seem to do it without running into the kicker, while RU does it all the time and rarely does it. We really need to invest in a good midmajor ST coach. There's no reason why Rutgers should have excellent Special teams every year and every year ours stinks. That's one thing (well two, they do a good job forcing fumbles) that we need to learn from them. That saves them them from losing every game and is a great equalizer against better teams.

 

[upperdeck]

coaches have foster has great hands.. no doubt that play was called because they ran it in practice 100 times.. again its not the play its the result..

 

[orange79]

...although I don't know yet if college has running into the kicker like the Pro's do...

Found this on the NCAA site. Free download for those interested.

On page 108 of the PDF, "Running into kicker or holder" is a 5 yard penalty. Scrolling down on the same page, "Roughing the kicker [first down]" is listed as a 15 yard penalty. So yes, there are two different penalties in college. Given that, I think he refs blew that one, big time.

 

[rrlbees]

Found this on the NCAA site. Free download for those interested.

On page 108 of the PDF, "Running into kicker or holder" is a 5 yard penalty. Scrolling down on the same page, "Roughing the kicker [first down]" is listed as a 15 yard penalty. So yes, there are two different penalties in college. Given that, I think he refs blew that one, big time.

Good find. Then at worst the call should have been a 5 yard penalty and still 4th down.

 

[qdawgg]

It was discussed during the game on TV and replays clearly show that he jumped in the air, missed the ball, missed the kicker but when he landed he rolled a couple of times and at the end of his roll hit the kickers back leg. Not a 15 yarder but a 5 yarder.

I will concede to the fact that maybe attempting to block the punt in that situation maybe not the best idea, however when the punter is in the endzone you put a lot of pressure on the punter to get the ball off quickly and increase the chances of a mistake. I could be wrong but I don't believe our punt blocking has been spectacular this year so I still don't think it was a bad call to make.

I'm generalizing in some of the topics I brought up - we have "some" people on here who are always complaining about the conservative play calling (which I don't completely disagree with) but when decisions are made to be more aggressive those same people complain about how the playcalling. IMO opinion 50% (not a scientific based percent) of the mistakes that made the playcalling look bad were poor execution not poor coaching decisions. I can't stress enough that I'm not trying to give the coaching staff a pass or claim the offense has looked good but the issues are just as much poor execution.

 

[qdawgg]

My point about the WR's and TE's is they have dropped a lot of catchable balls this year and many have been for first downs in 3rd down situations. Drops like that are a killer and make the playcalling look bad. Now that I've watched the game again, not only did Chew drop a 1st down but I forgot that he had at least 1 other ball thrown to him when Nassib was being pressured that would have been a tough catch but catchable - he was never ready to catch the ball. I don't know what the issue is with the WR's but we don't have the talent on the WR side that seemingly every team we've faced so far has. Is it playcalling, are the receivers not getting separation, is Nassib not throwing it when they come out of their breaks? I don't know the answer.

 

[Millhouse]

Another great example. People have complained before when we don't "try to get after the punter". This time we did, the wrong penalty was called and that is a bad decision by the coaching staff. Since when do people cry about trying to block a punt in the endzone in a close game. Very strange.

who is making those complaints? you're making stuff up

 

[orange79]

who is making those complaints? you're making stuff up

Not really. You weren't in the chat room.