With no disrespect to Jim, why are coaches exempt and given a sort of lifetime contract? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

With no disrespect to Jim, why are coaches exempt and given a sort of lifetime contract?

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I have been a Syracuse Fan since 1975, I know I am old. I will not pretend to be a huge JAB fan, but I will give JAB all the credit in the world for his long term success, as well as his contributions to the greater Syracuse Community.
BUT, yes you knew that was coming, as Duane Charles "Bill" Parcells said "...You are what your record says you are..." !
It is a simple matter of fact that we are not at the level we previously enjoyed. Sadly it is long been established you do not fire the team. Hence, please Jim, please retire with the dignity you deserve and still have available to you. I would be OK with Jim leaving with Buddy after the completion of his Senior Season.
Well, now I'm going to put on my helmet and await the incoming !
 
The sanctions argument is old. It doesn’t hold water anymore. You cling to it so that you can continue to say ’Boeheim can do no wrong’.
Really - so though the sanctions are only recently over you think that the instant they are over they no longer have any affect. I wonder how not having the fun allotment of scholarships available is no longer "holds water" when recruits we might have gotten actually have a full 4 years of eligibility. So 0 minutes equals 4 full years with the new math? I will give the the benefit of knowing nothing about redshirt years or it could be 0 minutes holding your water vs 5 full years. I am really not sure when I ever said JB could do no wrong but if it makes you feel better to keep making things up and offering your opinions as if they were facts than have at it. Cling to that.
It‘s okay. I have little need to engage in a war with a zealot...
Especially if they have solid arguments. That way one doesn't have to actually learn anything much less acknowledge there are other valid points that may not completely agree with your opinion.
 
Really - so though the sanctions are only recently over you think that the instant they are over they no longer have any affect. I wonder how not having the fun allotment of scholarships available is no longer "holds water" when recruits we might have gotten actually have a full 4 years of eligibility. So 0 minutes equals 4 full years with the new math? I will give the the benefit of knowing nothing about redshirt years or it could be 0 minutes holding your water vs 5 full years. I am really not sure when I ever said JB could do no wrong but if it makes you feel better to keep making things up and offering your opinions as if they were facts than have at it. Cling to that.

Especially if they have solid arguments. That way one doesn't have to actually learn anything much less acknowledge there are other valid points that may not completely agree with your opinion.

Wow...I guess you just told me :)

So, tell me...How long will it take to get the sanctions behind us? By my counting, this is the 6th year after...Will they be behind us in 8 years? 10? Come one genius, when?

I care not if you agree with me or not, quite frankly. And when you offer up something of value, I’ll sure to tell you. Until then, I’ll continue to point out your errors.
 
JB was prepared to hand over the role in 2018. When Washington lured Hopkins away in 2017, JB agreed to stay on to provide stability. You can debate the wisdom of that decision, or the length of JB's extension, if you wish. But at least acknowledge that there was a retirement plan, interrupted by events.

ya, makes total sense. Hopkins leaves his alma matter and a top 10 program to become a coach in the Pac 10 one year before he gets the keys to Syracuse. Had nothing to do with the fact Jimmy didn’t want to be pushed out, wasn’t ready to retire, and his son commits to the program.
 
ya, makes total sense. Hopkins leaves his alma matter and a top 10 program to become a coach in the Pac 10 one year before he gets the keys to Syracuse. Had nothing to do with the fact Jimmy didn’t want to be pushed out, wasn’t ready to retire, and his son commits to the program.
Sorry — it makes sense (and is true) that Hopkins was offered the head coaching position at Washington effective one year before he was to take over at SU, returned to the west Coast (where he grew up). made 1.5M more for his trouble. Got the chance to run his program without any shadow of a HOF legend.
And then SU gave JB an extension because the succession plan was trumped.
Do some research on the sequence.
 
Or maybe they get defensive when he is still getting undeserved criticism. Your point is just an opinion and not anywhere near a fact. Many fans are into the what have you done in the last 15 seconds. They have a problem with facts that contribute to successes and a failures.

It is clearly a fact that Boeheim has lost 13 games - what used to be an unheard of number - for 7 straight seasons, and that for the previous 45 years, it only happened 4 times.

That is a sign of structural rot. It's stale. The results are not looking much better until the program gets a new start.

I really think Boeheim has done great things, but the last few years have been about him kind of phoning it in, in my opinion. I think he has gotten more stubborn and ornery, these past several years. It is time for a change.

It's not the last 15 seconds, it's the last 7 years.

A couple wins in March because of his excellent tactics and game day coaching don't cover up for other ways he has fallen short - in building and maintaining a roster, in maintaining continuity from season to season, so whether the zone was good or not wasn't such a crap shoot. Recruiting obviously has been down. We've gotten close on a talented players but haven't closed well, players haven't made it to campus, or they didn't last long.

Yes, part of it is all of college basketball. But the vibe just doesn't feel good up on the Hill.
 
they arent.

But after a certain level of success...they are.

45 seasons without a losing one is A LOT harder than most probably realize.

He literally has never had a losing season. Thats what gets you canned and it hasnt happened to him...
 
I think professors can work as long as they are capable too. Maybe it’s just a University mindset. I mean, he’s not Union, why should he have to retire? Lots of people work as long as they can/want.
 
JB gets all my respect for this season. What tough circumstances losing his starting center, various other injuries and COVID. I mean he had COVID too, right? or did I dream that.

There are people who have been crushed by the circumstances of the past year and all JB did is take his injured team with players one foot out the door to the Sweet Sixteen. Half the time we’re in the tournament we go to the Sweet Sixteen. How is that not a measure of success? 95%+ of schools would kill to have that caliber of coaching.
 
they arent.

But after a certain level of success...they are.

45 seasons without a losing one is A LOT harder than most probably realize.

He literally has never had a losing season. Thats what gets you canned and it hasnt happened to him...
Actually, it’s usually ncaa sanctions that get you canned for sure
 
So hear me out.

In any other job or profession in the world, you get old enough and either retire, are forced to retire, or are kindly told to retire rather than being fired. At some point, you can no longer perform the daily tasks that your job requires of you. But for some reason, it seems like head coaches always get a pass and legends are able to go out on their own terms even though they have a lack of success at the end of their tenure (bobby bowden, frank beamer, etc)

What Jim has done for the University and the City as a whole is incredible and should be applauded and celebrated. He has won a championship, brought the city and university a ton of success and notoriety that it would not get otherwise, and is a Hall of Fame coach. What he has achieved in his career is unbeleivable and almost unfathomable. I have enjoyed what he has done in my short 32 years, and absolutely adore him. I will be thankful and always remember what he did for the city, the team, and the fun and enjoyment he gave me as a fan. He will always be remembered as a legend in the Syracuse community.

BUT...

If this was any other profession, he would be fired or forced into retirement due to his lack of success. There still needs to be a level of accountability, Jim should not be above this review. He is essentialy being held on to due to his past success and accomplishments, and I am not sure why this is the norm? Past success does not guarentee future success. It would be one thing if this was a year or two situation, but that is not the case. As I believe Alasc's posted the other day Jimmy is closing in on 7 straight 13 loss seasons, and as I mentioned later in the article that he had only 4 such seasons from 1969-2014 when this streak started.

I ask why has nothing changed? Do I think it is time for the university to step in and move on? Yes, I do. But besides my believe, why has nothing changed in this seven year run? No change in recruiting philosophy, no change in assistants, no pressure from the athletic department or university? I guess I just do not understand why past history makes someone invincible. If this was football for example, coordinators would be changed, head coaches would be changed, facilities would be altered, etc.

Maybe the bottom line is I am not a nostalgic person. But I am also not a fly by the seat of your pants type of guy either. I feel like Jim has had plenty of time to right the ship, but it just has not happened. I didn't start to believe he should be forced out until the end of last year up until this past week. But as many others here have stated I have started to become ambivalent on game days. I used to get overjoyed, and that feeling is just missing now because I continue to see the same stuff occur over and over again, which leads to many loses.

I guess the whole point of this post was to wonder aloud and see what you guys think, why are legends given too much leeway after several continuos poor years of success? What have people seen over the last 7 years that tell you we are trending in the right direction? (and yes, Im very aware we went to the final four in 2016, but we still barely made the tournament. I believe Regular season wins and losses is more indicative of how good a team is. A lot of teams have made runs in the tournament, getting hot at the right time, playing well together. But as history shows, you are more likely to have sucess in the tournament if you have a good regular season record, higher probability of winning).
It truly boggles the mind to hear the last seven years of stand-out successes by Jim Boeheim as "continuous poor years of success."

Sweet Sixteen's in 3 of the last 5 NCAAT's. A Final Four 5 years ago. His raw coaching talent is exemplified by the fact that he achieved all that success with 2nd Tier Talent.

If a good-looking young coach with charm were to 1) succeed Boeheim, and then 2) match Jim's post-season success over the next seven-yr period, the same people currently calling for Jim's retirement would be demanding a 10-yr contract extension for Young Guy, saying: "don't let this guy get away!"

And with a straight face, these people will tell you that it's only objective facts that lead them to their harsh judgments of Jim Boeheim...:rolleyes:
 
It truly boggles the mind to hear the last seven years of stand-out successes by Jim Boeheim as "continuous poor years of success."

Sweet Sixteen's in 3 of the last 5 NCAAT's. A Final Four 5 years ago. His raw coaching talent is exemplified by the fact that he achieved all that success with 2nd Tier Talent.

If a good-looking young coach with charm were to 1) succeed Boeheim, and then 2) match Jim's post-season success over the next seven-yr period, the same people currently calling for Jim's retirement would be demanding a 10-yr contract extension for Young Guy, saying: "don't let this guy get away!"

And with a straight face, these people will tell you that it's only objective facts that lead them to their harsh judgments of Jim Boeheim...:rolleyes:
You do realize I wrote this when we were 7-4 and just got blown out by Pitt (by 20 and gave up 96 points) right? Not that I still don’t stand behind what I wrote. But at that time we were not sniffing the NCAA tournament. Hell, up until the miniature run we made at the end of the year, we were not going to make the tournament. We had a ton of help around the country during tournament week and were one of the last 6 teams in the dance.

Not to mention I just wrote the stats. The stats don’t lie. It is the worst stretch of coaching (record wise) in his career. That can not be debated.
 
You do realize I wrote this when we were 7-4 and just got blown out by Pitt (by 20 and gave up 96 points) right? Not that I still don’t stand behind what I wrote. But at that time we were not sniffing the NCAA tournament. Hell, up until the miniature run we made at the end of the year, we were not going to make the tournament. We had a ton of help around the country during tournament week and were one of the last 6 teams in the dance.

Not to mention I just wrote the stats. The stats don’t lie. It is the worst stretch of coaching (record wise) in his career. That can not be debated.
“Help”? Nonsense. And SU demonstrated they belonged. You are what you achieve. SU was a Sweet 16 team. Nothing less.
 
“Help”? Nonsense. And SU demonstrated they belonged. You are what you achieve. SU was a Sweet 16 team. Nothing less.
What did JB say about Warren Buffet?
He seems to be still hanging in there.
Guy has never ever had a losing season.
Be careful what you wish for.If we had followed the succession plan we might have been 5-25 like Hopkins was At Washington.
 
What did JB say about Warren Buffet?
He seems to be still hanging in there.
Guy has never ever had a losing season.
Be careful what you wish for.If we had followed the succession plan we might have been 5-25 like Hopkins was At Washington.
Not sure why this was tagged to me, but agreed. I hope JB stays as long as he wants and is capable.
 
We’re Kodak
As a former Kodak stockholder, I was screwed by the CEO, officers and board of directors. When Kodak declared bankruptcy, the lawyers involved got the courts to declare Kodak stock void so the company could sell new stock ro raise money. Former stockholders got nothing, the lawyers were paid in the new Kodak stock.
 
In all of the replies I saw nothing about JB's boss . In the op, the poster mentions being forced to retire (which is illegal) , or fired. Apparently JB's boss or board of directors are not as upset with his performance as many fans. And as JB himself has said, they are the only voice he listens to, or has too. Your/our opinions don't mean diddly.
 
So hear me out.

In any other job or profession in the world, you get old enough and either retire, are forced to retire, or are kindly told to retire rather than being fired. At some point, you can no longer perform the daily tasks that your job requires of you. But for some reason, it seems like head coaches always get a pass and legends are able to go out on their own terms even though they have a lack of success at the end of their tenure (bobby bowden, frank beamer, etc)

What Jim has done for the University and the City as a whole is incredible and should be applauded and celebrated. He has won a championship, brought the city and university a ton of success and notoriety that it would not get otherwise, and is a Hall of Fame coach. What he has achieved in his career is unbeleivable and almost unfathomable. I have enjoyed what he has done in my short 32 years, and absolutely adore him. I will be thankful and always remember what he did for the city, the team, and the fun and enjoyment he gave me as a fan. He will always be remembered as a legend in the Syracuse community.

BUT...

If this was any other profession, he would be fired or forced into retirement due to his lack of success. There still needs to be a level of accountability, Jim should not be above this review. He is essentialy being held on to due to his past success and accomplishments, and I am not sure why this is the norm? Past success does not guarentee future success. It would be one thing if this was a year or two situation, but that is not the case. As I believe Alasc's posted the other day Jimmy is closing in on 7 straight 13 loss seasons, and as I mentioned later in the article that he had only 4 such seasons from 1969-2014 when this streak started.

I ask why has nothing changed? Do I think it is time for the university to step in and move on? Yes, I do. But besides my believe, why has nothing changed in this seven year run? No change in recruiting philosophy, no change in assistants, no pressure from the athletic department or university? I guess I just do not understand why past history makes someone invincible. If this was football for example, coordinators would be changed, head coaches would be changed, facilities would be altered, etc.

Maybe the bottom line is I am not a nostalgic person. But I am also not a fly by the seat of your pants type of guy either. I feel like Jim has had plenty of time to right the ship, but it just has not happened. I didn't start to believe he should be forced out until the end of last year up until this past week. But as many others here have stated I have started to become ambivalent on game days. I used to get overjoyed, and that feeling is just missing now because I continue to see the same stuff occur over and over again, which leads to many loses.

I guess the whole point of this post was to wonder aloud and see what you guys think, why are legends given too much leeway after several continuos poor years of success? What have people seen over the last 7 years that tell you we are trending in the right direction? (and yes, Im very aware we went to the final four in 2016, but we still barely made the tournament. I believe Regular season wins and losses is more indicative of how good a team is. A lot of teams have made runs in the tournament, getting hot at the right time, playing well together. But as history shows, you are more likely to have sucess in the tournament if you have a good regular season record, higher probability of winning).
Sometimes the coach becomes bigger than the program. I was a freshman during JB's first year as head coach. Louie and Bouie show was his start. The man took what had become a good regional program with a recent Final Four and made it into a national program.

Sure SU hoops got a huge assist when Dave Gavitt got the Big East rolling, and ESPN put Syracuse in every market in the country. The thing is the only team from the Big East to have the sustained success for every year since 1976 (before the league existed) is Syracuse. Not Georgetown, UCONN Villanova, St. Johns, or Providence, etc. Syracuse is the only team in this group which has had zero losing seasons in JAB's long tenure. No ACC or SEC team can make the boast. Can any team in a major conference or the new Big East make that claim? While we are not a perennial national contender we are always good and sometimes great. No other school that I can think of has been able to do what SU has done. Our coach is the program, make no mistake, he built and sustained it.

For whatever faults the man has he has earned the right to help hand pick his successor. We can all hope and pray for a career in our field as JB has in his, no matter what the next few years yield, know this, since 1976 I have lived and died with the ups and downs of the program. Crazy for a grown man near retirement to feel this way but I am still 18 years old and going nuts in the Manley Zoo whenever I attend a live game, and I set my personal schedule around SUTV times. That is thanks to one man, James Arthur Boeheim.

I wonder if we would have even built the Carrier Dome if not for Coach Boeheim.
 
Sometimes the coach becomes bigger than the program. I was a freshman during JB's first year as head coach. Louie and Bouie show was his start. The man took what had become a good regional program with a recent Final Four and made it into a national program.

Sure SU hoops got a huge assist when Dave Gavitt got the Big East rolling, and ESPN put Syracuse in every market in the country. The thing is the only team from the Big East to have the sustained success for every year since 1976 (before the league existed) is Syracuse. Not Georgetown, UCONN Villanova, St. Johns, or Providence, etc. Syracuse is the only team in this group which has had zero losing seasons in JAB's long tenure. No ACC or SEC team can make the boast. Can any team in a major conference or the new Big East make that claim? While we are not a perennial national contender we are always good and sometimes great. No other school that I can think of has been able to do what SU has done. Our coach is the program, make no mistake, he built and sustained it.

For whatever faults the man has he has earned the right to help hand pick his successor. We can all hope and pray for a career in our field as JB has in his, no matter what the next few years yield, know this, since 1976 I have lived and died with the ups and downs of the program. Crazy for a grown man near retirement to feel this way but I am still 18 years old and going nuts in the Manley Zoo whenever I attend a live game, and I set my personal schedule around SUTV times. That is thanks to one man, James Arthur Boeheim.

I wonder if we would have even built the Carrier Dome if not for Coach Boeheim.
Your post was good until the last sentence. JAB never wanted to go into the Dome. He was happy with Manley. No one expected the attendance to blow up like it did. Basically because of Pearl.
 
Sorry — it makes sense (and is true) that Hopkins was offered the head coaching position at Washington effective one year before he was to take over at SU, returned to the west Coast (where he grew up). made 1.5M more for his trouble. Got the chance to run his program without any shadow of a HOF legend.
And then SU gave JB an extension because the succession plan was trumped.
Do some research on the sequence.
It’s scary people believe this BS.
 
Yes, the NCAA sanctions were a joke. I think everyone can agree on that. But a reduction of 2 scholarships should have been manageable especially since Jim does not play a deep bench anyways. Our recruiting has taken a nose dive however. We are no longer getting highly ranked recruits comparative to what we have done in the past. A reduction of 2 scholarships, still leaving the team to have 11 schlorships shouldn’t mean that recruiting plummets the way that it has.
For I hope the last time, it wasn't just the loss of two (at first it was three) ships. the most damaging sanction was that we could only have two coaches on the road at any one time. So if there were 4 events going on, we could only be at two of them while the schools we were recruiting against could be at all of them. That was a killer.
 
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