World Cup Thread

[DeGrozz]

Croatia was better in every aspect of the game except finishing and diving. One of those always matters, hats off to France for capitalizing. The other one sometimes matters, again hats off to France.

I don't like that Croatia lost, but they struggled all game to use their possession to create meaningful chances in open play. They made two stupid errors on set pieces, they lazily did not close out on Mbappe when he received the ball ~23 yards from goal. It was a game filled with stupid errors from them. I'm not sure how that's better in every aspect of the game, especially when 50% of the game is defense and the other 50% is creating and finishing scoring chances.

Possession and 2.25 will get you on the subway, you know?

 

[Alsacs]

When the USA has players at the elite European clubs like Croatia does is when we will be a WC threat.
Croatia has a lot of good talent.

Also how would a team of USA look with Anthony Davis GK, Odell Beckham, Tyreek Hill, Mike Trout, LeVeon Bell, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, Russell Wilson &Christian McCaffrey.
I am sure the technical aspects could be taught to these athletes.

The US just has its best athletes playing other sports. France has some basketball players to be fair.

 

[creatorsgam]

When the USA has players at the elite European clubs like Croatia does is when we will be a WC threat.
Croatia has a lot of good talent.

Also how would a team of USA look with Anthony Davis GK, Odell Beckham, Tyreek Hill, Mike Trout, LeVeon Bell, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, Russell Wilson &Christian McCaffrey.
I am sure the technical aspects could be taught to these athletes.

The US just has its best athletes playing other sports. France has some basketball players to be fair.

Croatia has a population of 4M. Our athletes should match their athletes, no problem.

The pay-for-play system needs to be broken down and revamped. Our potential best soccer players can’t access the best coaching available. It matters.

 

[DeGrozz]

Croatia has a population of 4M. Our athletes should match their athletes, no problem.

I never liked the 'best athletes' argument for the US. There's a reason Ghana, Nigeria, and Cote d'Ivoire don't win it every year, despite having the largest, strongest, and fastest teams every tournament. With soccer you are afforded a ton of space in a game where it is much more beneficial to have the ball move rather than try to move faster with the ball than your opponent. Yes, a requisite amount of athleticism is required, but having the appropriate skill, endurance, and knowledge to play within a system without constantly having plays sent in or called for you are significantly more important. It's why your average soccer player across the big 5 leagues is 5'11" and 170 lbs and looks a lot more like your average Joe than a Big 4 American sports league player.

 

[Alsacs]

I never liked the 'best athletes' argument for the US. There's a reason Ghana, Nigeria, and Cote d'Ivoire don't win it every year, despite having the largest, strongest, and fastest teams every tournament. With soccer you are afforded a ton of space in a game where it is much more beneficial to have the ball move faster than your opponent. Yes, a requisite amount of athleticism is required, but having the appropriate skill, endurance, and knowledge to play within a system without constantly having plays sent in or called for you are significantly more important. It's why your average soccer player across the big 5 leagues is 5'11" and 170 lbs and looks a lot more like your average Joe than a Big 4 American sports league player.

NFL WR/RBs and NBA players are the athletes that could be taught soccer IMO.
Put Anthony Davis in the net you got a larger wing span than Courtois and the guy is nimble.
Put guys like Bell/Trout/McCaffrey/LeBron as your back line defenders.
Midfield with Westbrook/Wilson/Julio then up top for runs Beckham/Hill/Brown the speed and cutting ability is off the charts.

I think these guys are world class athletes. Our National team players are all world class athletes nothing wrong with them. I just talking about if the USA groomed it’s best athletes towards soccer.
The skill is really for the attack players and I have seen what OBJ can do with the ball on his feet he could have been a world class soccer player IMO.

 

[DeGrozz]

NFL WR/RBs and NBA players are the athletes that could be taught soccer IMO.
Put Anthony Davis in the net you got a larger wing span than Courtois and the guy is nimble.
Put guys like Bell/Trout/McCaffrey/LeBron as your back line defenders.
Midfield with Westbrook/Wilson/Julio then up top for runs Beckham/Hill/Brown the speed and cutting ability is off the charts.

I think these guys are world class athletes. Our National team players are all world class athletes nothing wrong with them. I just talking about if the USA groomed it’s best athletes towards soccer.
The skill is really for the attack players and I have seen what OBJ can do with the ball on his feet he could have been a world class soccer player IMO.

I understand the point of view. People have been stating this since SoccerBoards.com would have its 'what if Iverson played soccer' weekly thread.

It's just that my opinion is that the athletic sets and skill sets that make LeBron an icon in hoops, wouldn't necessarily let him sniff a pro soccer field.

The same with Pulisic being a top 30 player for pro soccer players his age wouldn't necessarily mean he could man the hot corner for the Yankees if that was his focus.

Yes, it'd be cool to have additional players in the player pool, but there are excellent athletes all over the world, not just in the US. But I believe that the game has constantly shown us that it's not about putting the best athletic talent out there and rolling the ball out -- it's about precision and purpose with the ball and spacing/moving as a unit in defense. Every now and again you'll get a Russell Westbrook-like athlete that is at the top of the skill game and get a CR7. But I think if you look at the ultimate game changers over the last 15-25 years, they are much more elite cerebral players than elite athletic players (think Zidane, Ronaldinho, Makalele, Viera, Figo, Messi, Toure, Pujols, Neymar, etc).

Again, I get what you're saying, I just have a very different opinion on the issue.

 

[Yegorange]

Neimar? Cerebral? While he has great skills his most “cerebral” one is acting. But more like Charlie Chaplin - slap stick. Surely you saw the rolling Neimar memes.

 

[DeGrozz]

Neimar? Cerebral? While he has great skills his most “cerebral” one is acting. But more like Charlie Chaplin - slap stick. Surely you saw the rolling Neimar memes.

I also have seen him be part of a front line that has moved the ball and scored better than any in the history of the sport. If you don't see that he moves off the ball brilliantly, creates space, and constantly finds himself in dangerous positions, I can't help you.

 

[CuseCPT]

I don't like that Croatia lost, but they struggled all game to use their possession to create meaningful chances in open play. They made two stupid errors on set pieces, they lazily did not close out on Mbappe when he received the ball ~23 yards from goal. It was a game filled with stupid errors from them. I'm not sure how that's better in every aspect of the game, especially when 50% of the game is defense and the other 50% is creating and finishing scoring chances.

Possession and 2.25 will get you on the subway, you know?

61% possession, twice as many shots and shots on target and a big advantage in corners. France got 1 goal off a dive, and another of a controversial penalty. Croatia was the better team for my money, but as is life, the better team does not always win.

 

[DeGrozz]

61% possession, twice as many shots and shots on target and a big advantage in corners. France got 1 goal off a dive, and another of a controversial penalty. Croatia was the better team for my money, but as is life, the better team does not always win.

Come on, you can't make up stats. Croatia was woefully inefficient shooting and only put 3 of their 16 shots on target because they were constantly trying to shoot through a structured defense or were ripping low percentage shots from distance. It's why France actually had twice as many shots on target -- that and because Lloris had a mental lapse after going up 3 with the ball at his feet which gifted Croatia a shot and goal. I doubt he makes that error in a close game.

But like I said, claiming possession as a positive without creating dangerous chances doesn't make much sense to me when France was happier sitting back with the lead, maintaining formation in the midfield, and trying to play over the top to Giroud after Mbappe stopped tracking back as much defense. The best way to put it is Croatia essentially played the same game college basketball teams do against our zone when they don't know how to play it. They pass it around the top of the key, waste time, and then launch a bad shot. The only difference is Croatia played horrible on the ball defense on top of that and allowed target practice on their flatfooted keeper when France did get forward.

 

[CuseCPT]

Come on, you can't make up stats. Croatia was woefully inefficient shooting and only put 3 of their 16 shots on target because they were constantly trying to shoot through a structured defense or were ripping low percentage shots from distance. It's why France actually had twice as many shots on target -- that and because Lloris had a mental lapse after going up 3 with the ball at his feet which gifted Croatia a shot and goal. I doubt he makes that error in a close game.

But like I said, claiming possession as a positive without creating dangerous chances doesn't make much sense to me when France was happier sitting back with the lead, maintaining formation in the midfield, and trying to play over the top to Giroud after Mbappe stopped tracking back as much defense. The best way to put it is Croatia essentially played the same game college basketball teams do against our zone when they don't know how to play it. They pass it around the top of the key, waste time, and then launch a bad shot. The only difference is Croatia played horrible on the ball defense on top of that and allowed target practice on their flatfooted keeper when France did get forward.

I reversed the shots on target, I thought it was 6-3 for Croatia. At any rate, you aren’t going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours so......

 

[cuse10]

I never liked the 'best athletes' argument for the US. There's a reason Ghana, Nigeria, and Cote d'Ivoire don't win it every year, despite having the largest, strongest, and fastest teams every tournament. With soccer you are afforded a ton of space in a game where it is much more beneficial to have the ball move rather than try to move faster with the ball than your opponent. Yes, a requisite amount of athleticism is required, but having the appropriate skill, endurance, and knowledge to play within a system without constantly having plays sent in or called for you are significantly more important. It's why your average soccer player across the big 5 leagues is 5'11" and 170 lbs and looks a lot more like your average Joe than a Big 4 American sports league player.

It comes down to training. The European nations make Africa look like amateurs in that department.

I do think elite American athletes could excel at soccer if it were their primary focus. For cultural reasons, the sport isn't at the level basketball, football and baseball are. There are economic forces as well that need to be addressed along with the current AYSO model being torn down. It isn't an overnight thing and certainly won't happen by 2022. Mbappe is 19 making $20.5M this season for PSG while your star HB at Alabama is developing CTE for a meal plan and the hopes he'll play in the NFL one day.

 

[jordville]

Pogba!

 

[Ghost]

I reversed the shots on target, I thought it was 6-3 for Croatia. At any rate, you aren’t going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours so...

I thought Croatia outplayed them in many respects. Vida made some errors, the header over the end line, and two woefully awful attempts at shots off headers that sort of doomed Croatia in the first half. They had good opportunities - but they missed badly never even putting much pressure on France to make a save. Get it on goal (or at least close), and things can happen...I don't know, throw in some shoddy officials, as I will echo the sentiments of the Canadian broadcast in saying it was heartwrenching watching them muck up the game...and you end up with a pretty ho-hum French win. So be it!

 

[Briancuse]

I never liked the 'best athletes' argument for the US. There's a reason Ghana, Nigeria, and Cote d'Ivoire don't win it every year, despite having the largest, strongest, and fastest teams every tournament. With soccer you are afforded a ton of space in a game where it is much more beneficial to have the ball move rather than try to move faster with the ball than your opponent. Yes, a requisite amount of athleticism is required, but having the appropriate skill, endurance, and knowledge to play within a system without constantly having plays sent in or called for you are significantly more important. It's why your average soccer player across the big 5 leagues is 5'11" and 170 lbs and looks a lot more like your average Joe than a Big 4 American sports league player.

Its a very valid argument. Fact is most people just don't like soccer. We aren't getting the best athletes because other sports are much more enticing.

 

[Yegorange]

Its a very valid argument. Fact is most people just don't like soccer. We aren't getting the best athletes because other sports are much more enticing.

Fact actually is that most people in the US don’t like it. The rest of the world is crazy about it. International basketball is nowhere near our college or NBA levels, not surprising they aren’t nuts over that sport in Europe. Our football is a man’s game for sure - and soccer divas (divers) like Neimar surely don’t help popularizing it here as an alternative. Baseball is foreign to most of the world too (except Japan) - after all the years of trying to change their minds. It is what it is, and, apparently, what will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[SmilinBob]

The World Cup was fun to watch but too often it has the slow the SU offense down thing with the dives (cramps) and sadly, the officials can't always discern what is a dive and what is real just like in American football. I'm sure you fans have discussed this a million times but it takes away from a beautiful game. Like watching a Duke guy take a charge...annoying as heck.

 

[Alsacs]

No prob Real Madrid, Liverpool and Chelsea all want Allison from Roma.

So he is likely on the move to a big club.

Liverpool agree record fee for Alisson - sources

Liverpool are breaking the bank for Allison.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Or the 1970 Semi between Italia and Germania. Italy scored early and sat on the lead. Beckenbauer played with a sling after dislocating his shoulder, but remained on the field because Germany had used all it's substitutions. Germany tied it deep in injury time and then the fun began.

I know the game but was too young to have watched it.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

So was about to tune in as I'm home for a couple hours working on a propos and Fox is unavailable.. lol.

Great World Cup. Enjoyed it immensely even without Italy and the US.

VaR was a great addition. Needs to be used all the time.

Has anyone figured out what is and what is not a handball? I thought it was a clear handball on Perisic yet some commentators were arguing that it should not have been called. Not sure why.

The gap is narrowing between the traditional haves and have nots which is turning the World Cup into the global version of March Madness.

My only request is to do something about the yellow card accumulations. Looked to me like lots of yellows stayed in pockets during the quarters. Made for some games more reminiscent of 82 or 86. Maybe increase it to 3.

Good start on the scrums on corners. Need to finish cleaning that up.

I think Deschamps deserves a helluva lot more credit than he is getting. Getting Pogba to buy into that 6 role was a master stroke. Like telling Kobe, “You just play D and the other guys will score” and Kobe saying, “Ok”. French chemistry has always been the key to their success, or lack thereof. Deschamps absolutely nailed it.

Not sure I like the expansion to 48. Too many Panamas in that 33-48 range.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Great World Cup. Enjoyed it immensely even without Italy and the US.

VaR was a great addition. Needs to be used all the time.

Has anyone figured out what is and what is not a handball? I thought it was a clear handball on Perisic yet some commentators were arguing that it should not have been called. Not sure why.

Not sure I like the expansion to 48. Too many Panamas in that 33-48 range.

I had a hard time seeing it live but it was pretty clear to me on the first replay.

I agree that VaR is good but I wonder if the difference between slo mo replays and live speed distorts enough of what happens to influence the official.

Not in the Perisic handball but in open field tackles. I saw many replays of borderline dives that were called fouls look way worse (meaning a clear foul) in slow mo because the length of time a defender’s hands were on a ball carrier is exaggerated.

I wonder how much, if any, that may influence a card decision (if VaR could be used to assess the severity of an infraction).

I agree that it’s a great change to the game and I also thought most officials did well with the scrums during set pieces and corners.

Very enjoyable WC despite no real rooting interest for me either.

 

[jordville]

Face palm. Felicio was the Bulls rep tonight with Pulisic in town...