Worst JB Team Ever | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Worst JB Team Ever

More stats/facts to consider:
JB has two guards averaging 6ft 5in to man the top of the zone
Our teams with size at the top of the zone have done well (Rautins & Triche; Gbinije & Cooney)
Thompson has more offensive game than any young C we have had in years
Battle averaged 18 pts in our final 6 games
Thorpe averaged 15 pts for USF

Can build around a trio like that. Moyer & Howard add some experience in JB's system.
The young forwards (Marek, Brissett, Sidibe) don't need to carry the team. Contribute on D and provide a 4th option on offense and we are good.
 
We may be good, but I think the interior D may be the worst since Celuck was here. Luckily outside of Louisville there is little size in the conference this year.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
We may be good, but I think the interior D may be the worst since Celuck was here. Luckily outside of Louisville there is little size in the conference this year.
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Consider that the recent Final-4 team had a true frosh Lydon at 205lbs at C, Roberson at PF, and a true frosh in Richardson at SF. Richardson was only 6ft 6in, undersized for his role at the back of a zone, and not projected as much of a defender. Roberson even as a junior was thin, though very active as a defender. Lydon was frequently overpowered inside. The offsetting strength was having experience and size at the top of the zone in Cooney & Gbinije.

Sure, Thompson has to figure things out, but he is 6ft 10 in and will be stronger inside this time around. Not sure how to project Brissett & Moyer as defenders but Moyer has decent size -- comparing to Roberson, for example. Sidibe seems to have good instincts and size, though we don't know how he will compete against college centers. Bottom line -- seems way too early to project how this bunch will compare to the 2015-16 inside defense that was good enough to give us a March run.
 
SoBristol said:
Consider that the recent Final-4 team had a true frosh Lydon at 205lbs at C, Roberson at PF, and a true frosh in Richardson at SF.
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I respect your point, but I feel like referring to the 2016 team as a Final Four team as a measure of it's overall strength is misleading. The 2010 and 2012 teams didn't go to the Final Four, but lost half as many games combined as the 2016 team. In other words, I don't think the 2016 blueprint is a model for future Final Four trips.
 
e
Delmar said:
I like the provocative post, and I think you make your point well, but I disagree.

The game has changed. Because of 1-and-done, many DI schools are fielding their worst team in years. Look at Pittsburgh and UConn, as two obvious examples we know about.

Every NCAA division team except for the super-elites are worse off than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Everybody is scrambling to put together teams that have been turned upside down by early exits or transfers coming and going. And even the super-elites have their down years in this new reality.

I think we will be fine and even good. We don't have to beat Georgetown in the late 80's, or Kentucky in '96. We are playing other schools similarly affected by the change in rules that have diminished our product.

The board laments our present circumstance. And many posters feel like the 2010's have sucked. Hell, we've gone to two final fours this decade. We are widely loathed for our success. 95% plus of the schools in D1 would kill for the kind a failure we are currently experiencing. Maybe the old man can coach after all.
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Good comments. The one and done thing has certainly thrown a monkey wrench into things and we have indeed had some good success in recent years.

Look - the other side of the coin to my post ... JB seems to be wrestling with the problem. He is turning to graduate transfers to recapture the senior experience factor and he is dipping more deeply into the international market (Brissett - Canada; Sidibi- Africa; Dolezaj - Slovakia). Add in Chukwu and fully one third of this year's team will be foreign.

Even so, it is disturbing that hotly recruited Fr. talent now seems to be giving us a pass. Our norm of landing the top drawer 4 star seems to have slipped to the mid lever 3 star in just a few years. We were happly to pull in Elijah Hughes, a 3 Star transfer from the East Carolina Panthers!

It merits more discussion here.
 
1981-1982 16-13. Santifer Bruin Rautins Waldron Hawkins. Spera and Kerins of the bench. No one taller than 6-8.
 
orange2win said:
e

Good comments. The one and done thing has certainly thrown a monkey wrench into things and we have indeed had some good success in recent years.

Look - the other side of the coin to my post ... JB seems to be wrestling with the problem. He is turning to graduate transfers to recapture the senior experience factor and he is dipping more deeply into the international market (Brissett - Canada; Sidibi- Africa; Dolezaj - Slovakia). Add in Chukwu and fully one third of this year's team will be foreign.

Even so, it is disturbing that hotly recruited Fr. talent now seems to be giving us a pass. Our norm of landing the top drawer 4 star seems to have slipped to the mid lever 3 star in just a few years. We were happly to pull in Elijah Hughes, a 3 Star transfer from the East Carolina Panthers!

It merits more discussion here.
Expand...

I have concerns, but even with the misses we still had the number 17 class even according to 24/7.
 
Eric15 said:
I respect your point, but I feel like referring to the 2016 team as a Final Four team as a measure of it's overall strength is misleading. The 2010 and 2012 teams didn't go to the Final Four, but lost half as many games combined as the 2016 team. In other words, I don't think the 2016 blueprint is a model for future Final Four trips.
Expand...

Agree with your rejoinder -- that team happened to come together at the right time and get some luck in March, while our very best teams in this decade had bad luck. That final four team did not win with interior defense (or frontcourt scoring) -- it was driven by the all-around play of Gbinije and Richardson.

Still, the point is that looking at that 2015-16 team in June, you wouldn't be expecting much at all from its interior defense. No one projected Lydon as a useful center, before JB made some comments in October that Lydon would be our backup there. Coleman was returning from rehab. Richardson was viewed as a gunner and indifferent on defense.

The blue print for a good JB zone team (not saying FF): built around tall guards who can be active, and typical lanky wing players. Some perimeter scoring (Battle & Thorpe) and at least one inside scorer (Thompson). An underrated team.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Say what you want about 2016, but I think 5 years from now we are going to look back and realize that team had a lot of talent. (G/Lydon/Mal are all NBA players).
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Exactly. Lack of talent is a lame excuse.
 
Eric15 said:
I respect your point, but I feel like referring to the 2016 team as a Final Four team as a measure of it's overall strength is misleading. The 2010 and 2012 teams didn't go to the Final Four, but lost half as many games combined as the 2016 team. In other words, I don't think the 2016 blueprint is a model for future Final Four trips.
Expand...

Correct. However, is there even a blueprint? So many things have to go right.
 
orange2win said:
This is JB's 19th team this century. He had 23 last century. I have seen them all and I think this year's team may be the worst. Brace yourself for rough ride.

Check which JB team in the past did not have any McDAAs, had only one 5 star rated recruit, had 4 or less returning players and was challenged with 7 new faces to learn the system. I can't recall one.

I know the star rating system really only applies to this century, but for over a decade last century we had at least 3 McDAA on every team, so the talent back then then was much better than now.

Maybe these kids will surprise me, but truth is, stats rarely lie.
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Why are you even going here ! Get out of here . You don't like the Cuse , Please leave
 
orange2win said:
e

Good comments. The one and done thing has certainly thrown a monkey wrench into things and we have indeed had some good success in recent years.

Look - the other side of the coin to my post ... JB seems to be wrestling with the problem. He is turning to graduate transfers to recapture the senior experience factor and he is dipping more deeply into the international market (Brissett - Canada; Sidibi- Africa; Dolezaj - Slovakia). Add in Chukwu and fully one third of this year's team will be foreign.

Even so, it is disturbing that hotly recruited Fr. talent now seems to be giving us a pass. Our norm of landing the top drawer 4 star seems to have slipped to the mid lever 3 star in just a few years. We were happly to pull in Elijah Hughes, a 3 Star transfer from the East Carolina Panthers!

It merits more discussion here.
Expand...

I'm sure everyone will hop on this "new" topic. Oh Lord
 
backcourt of mike flop hopkins and mike chickenhead edwards was pretty bad.
 
There is a lot more talent on this roster than the OP is giving credit, but in general, he is right. 17-18 is a developmental year, building to 18-19. Maybe they surprise on the upside, but there is a lot going against that.

As I mentioned the other night, this year marks the biggest change to SU Basketball's culture since JB took over for Danforth. Every coach is moving into new and/or unfamiliar territory - Red is now the #1, Gerry is now the #2, and neither have Hop to lean on. Griff is back home - but as a coach, he's brand new to JB's ways. One of those three is going to have to take over as big man coach for the first time (side note: poor Pascal Chukwu and his tantalizing physical gifts is entering his 4th year of college with his 3rd different position coach). Finally, and most significant, JB is going to have to be more involved at the operational level than he has been in at least a decade. It's almost like coming out of retirement for a rebuilding assignment. I think if they hadn't taken his wins away, he might have called it quits, but he wants 1000. Can't really say I blame him.

FWIW, I think Sidibe has the most potential of this year's freshman class, but he's probably a year away from really breaking out. I hope this staff can tease it all out of him
 
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e e
Ringostar57 said:
1981-1982 16-13. Santifer Bruin Rautins Waldron Hawkins. Spera and Kerins of the bench. No one taller than 6-8.
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Ah yes. Second year in a row we did not make the NCAA tournament. Knocked out of BET in the first round. Rumors of JB's demise. Yes, we were in a slide then too and that would last one more year (although Red Bruin was a McDAA). Then we captured the Pearl and SU basketball was never the same again.
 
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I think we will have a lot of young, long athletic players and most of them can play more than one position. But they will be unproven and inexperienced as well as pretty skinny. I think they will have less firepower but could be better on defense- maybe a lot better.

I also think it's June and I intend to enjoy my summer.
 
gilardino said:
96-97 team gets the nod
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Yup. 1981-82 had a worse record but Rautins missed 7 games in the middle of the year with an injury. Last year's team was frustrating but they sure could shoot. The 1996-97 team was over-matched and under-motivated. But they grew into the 1999-2000 team, which was one of our best.
 
SWC75 said:
I think we will have a lot of young, long athletic players and most of them can play more than one position. But they will be unproven and inexperienced as well as pretty skinny. I think they will have less firepower but could be better on defense- maybe a lot better.

I also think it's June and I intend to enjoy my summer.
Expand...

No optimism allowed here. Not even measured optimism.

Enjoy the summer, SWC.
 
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