Would like your thoughts please. | Syracusefan.com

Would like your thoughts please.

CINYer

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I don't post much, but read daily and have come to appreciate the different views and opinions, even from opposing team fans. I am not a big conspiracy theory type person, and I know the refs can and will blow or miss a call each game, but I noticed in the Clemson game, there were some obvious holding calls, some pass interference calls, that weren't called but could have been, NC St., same thing. Idk if Pitt is experiencing the same type of thing, but it is something that I noticed and wondered if anyone else had any thoughts. I mean I get it, I expected a little new kid on the block treatment, but at some point it has to stop right? I found myself angrily shouting at the TV..."Just let them play the game!" Clemson beat us, and they didn't need any help from the refs, IMO, the refs just made sure there was no doubt...just my rants...sorry, I'll go back to lurking now.
 
I noticed Clemson played nearly penalty free football I do think a conference would make sure their national championship contender didn't slip up against an underling.
 
Haven't noticed that. The only penalty related item I have is noticing the dramatic reduction in penalties attributed to Foy.
 
Both ACC opponents had less penalties than us by a large margin. NC State only had 4.
 
New conference New style. We have to adjust to the way ACC officials call the game.
 
Both ACC opponents had less penalties than us by a large margin. NC State only had 4.

It didn't occur to me to check that angle, I was more looking at the exaggerated call, or the convenient no call... Our D-line was held a lot in that Clemson game, not many calls...guess the refs didn't see them:noidea:
 
The main thing I have seen was a lot of missed holding calls against the opponents. I was screaming "THROW THE (expletive) FLAG! THAT'S HOLDING!" at the TV almost every play. Some weird PI calls also. As mentioned above I think there may be a little funny business but more than likely just a different type of reffing in the league.
 
It didn't occur to me to check that angle, I was more looking at the exaggerated call, or the convenient no call... Our D-line was held a lot in that Clemson game, not many calls...guess the refs didn't see them:noidea:

#77 Jones got horse-collared on an inside spin rush in the Clemson game.

I was very vocal about it at the time. Just ask CuseCrew08
 
The horse collar flag throw on PTG's run was picked up...kinda sums of ACC refs for you.
 
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The horse collar flag throw on PTG's run was picked up...kinda sums of ACC refs for you.
That was the strangest flag-pick-up (or whatever you call it) I've ever seen. A horse collar tackle could not possibly be more blatant and obvious than that one.

When the ref picked up the flag and announced no horse collar it reminded me of Frank Drebin telling everyone "Move along! Nothing to see here!"

Wish someone could post a gif of it. (The horse collar...not Frank Drebin).
 
That was the strangest flag-pick-up (or whatever you call it) I've ever seen. A horse collar tackle could not possibly be more blatant and obvious than that one.

When the ref picked up the flag and announced no horse collar it reminded me of Frank Drebin telling everyone "Move along! Nothing to see here!"

Wish someone could post a gif of it. (The horse collar...not Frank Drebin).

It was picked up because he wasn't tackled by the horse-collar. For it to be a foul, you must grab inside the jersey (or pads) AND drag the player down by that.

I just get tired of reading of "conspiracy theroy" posts. It reeks of absurdity to think that refs knowingly call a game to benefit one team or another. The reason you feel the refs are biased is because you are viewing the game as a biased fan. You are watching for your D-linemen to be held and counting all the instances you think they were. Meanwhile you're not watching it the same way when the other team is on defense.

Are there missed calls, of course. Are there bad calls, yes always. But as fans we always forget the bad calls that benefit our teams and harp on the ones that go against us as the only reasons we lost a game.
 
We had as many bad calls against us vs nc state as they had called on them the entire game. Clemson was beating us regardless but the refs weren't going to call anything against them. I missed the Zian Jones take down but everyone in the place saw the PI that didn't get called on the 4th down play. Defender was there way early. I'm not sure a flag was thrown on them until the backups were in.
 
It was picked up because he wasn't tackled by the horse-collar. For it to be a foul, you must grab inside the jersey (or pads) AND drag the player down by that.

I just get tired of reading of "conspiracy theroy" posts. It reeks of absurdity to think that refs knowingly call a game to benefit one team or another. The reason you feel the refs are biased is because you are viewing the game as a biased fan. You are watching for your D-linemen to be held and counting all the instances you think they were. Meanwhile you're not watching it the same way when the other team is on defense.

Are there missed calls, of course. Are there bad calls, yes always. But as fans we always forget the bad calls that benefit our teams and harp on the ones that go against us as the only reasons we lost a game.

That only explains why it's hard to talk about or confirm - not that it doesn't happen.
 
#77 Jones got horse-collared on an inside spin rush in the Clemson game.

I was very vocal about it at the time. Just ask CuseCrew08

I can vouch for this.
 
when the Refs over turned the horse collar call it might have been nice had they explained why.. some refs are better than others at explaining things.
 
Yeah I agree about the horse-collar, he grabbed it but didn't yank it to make the tackle, he used it as leverage to get his other arm on the runner. The point to horse collar penalties is that you can seriously injure somebody with a horse collar tackle by pulling them down from behind, in this case I felt the pickup was fine.

Also I don't think there is any new kid on the block treatment. Cameras and twitter are everywhere, unless you think the announcers and social media are also in on the conspiracy. Fact is if refs were calling unfair games against us, it would have been mentioned somewhere besides an SU fan site by now.
 
It's obvious I don't post that much, but some of yall (We're in the ACC now) need to get off of the soapbox. yes, I am a fan of SU, but I'm more a fan of the game. In my OP, I stated I wasn't big on conspiracies, and just wanted to know if others saw what I saw. Making blanket statements about what people watch or how they watch it isn't a smart way to make assessments, especially when you have no idea about the background or level of expertise of the person you're making those statements about. Now, whether or not folks will admit any biases towards "Northern FB" or "those boys up North" or whatever other phrases are out there, to act like there is none is just as "absurd" as me making an assumption based on a post I read here!!!Oh Lord:noidea:
 
I can confirm for you, ACC refs are terrible, LOL. I did not closely watch either of your games closely, but I would say that I doubt it's any "welcome to the conference" screw job. I don't think that's the way the ACC does things. More likely general incompetence.

Holding in particular has been a bone of contention for ACC refs for years. Someone broke down a multi-year count of holding calls drawn by each defensive line in the conference. According to ACC refs, FSU's defensive line, with all the draft picks they've had over the years, was the least held team by offensive lines. Duke's fearsome defensive line drew way more holding calls against it over the years. That defies all logic.

Traditionally, if there has been a "bias" in the officiating in the ACC it's been pretty clearly toward parity, rather than toward the favored team. So when you say it wouldn't be surprising for the ACC to protect it's national title contender in Clemson, you are right in general. In every other conference, the team trying to spring the upset gets the bogus call. I don't even think it's "protecting" so much as when you have a questionable bang-bang play, you usually tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the 5-star All-american making the play over the 2-star nobody. Just the way it works (including ACC basketball). For some reason, in ACC football, the benefit of the doubt ALWAYS went against the favorite.

But in the ACC that's a VERY surprising development. In one of our many infamous losses to Wake Forest, it was insane, including a ref re-spotting the ball a foot forward on a Wake fourth down play to give them the first.

What has traditionally happened in the ACC, is you get a team like VT or Miami or FSU with a defensive line full of studs, and they match up against a Wake or a Duke or a Maryland, and they just cannot be legally blocked by the talent on the offensive line. The refs simply swallow the whistle on holding rather than let a team rack up 10+ sacks. Which is exasperating if you are the team getting held on every play, because at least the other team should be forced to bring in another tight end or a fullback to help or something. It also hurts in recruiting stud pass rushers.

Now, what you are describing is kind of in the opposite direction. So to me it sounds like general referee suckitude. Maybe they're moving away from that "refereeing parity" mindset, and just sucking equally for everyone. Or maybe they are moving more toward protecting favorites. But no doubt they suck.
 
Felt the same way until no flags on the Kirkland and Darius Kelly hits. Expected a launching or pre-mediated murder or some bogus call.
 
I can confirm for you, ACC refs are terrible, LOL. I did not closely watch either of your games closely, but I would say that I doubt it's any "welcome to the conference" screw job. I don't think that's the way the ACC does things. More likely general incompetence.

Holding in particular has been a bone of contention for ACC refs for years. Someone broke down a multi-year count of holding calls drawn by each defensive line in the conference. According to ACC refs, FSU's defensive line, with all the draft picks they've had over the years, was the least held team by offensive lines. Duke's fearsome defensive line drew way more holding calls against it over the years. That defies all logic.

Traditionally, if there has been a "bias" in the officiating in the ACC it's been pretty clearly toward parity, rather than toward the favored team. So when you say it wouldn't be surprising for the ACC to protect it's national title contender in Clemson, you are right in general. In every other conference, the team trying to spring the upset gets the bogus call. I don't even think it's "protecting" so much as when you have a questionable bang-bang play, you usually tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the 5-star All-american making the play over the 2-star nobody. Just the way it works (including ACC basketball). For some reason, in ACC football, the benefit of the doubt ALWAYS went against the favorite.

But in the ACC that's a VERY surprising development. In one of our many infamous losses to Wake Forest, it was insane, including a ref re-spotting the ball a foot forward on a Wake fourth down play to give them the first.

What has traditionally happened in the ACC, is you get a team like VT or Miami or FSU with a defensive line full of studs, and they match up against a Wake or a Duke or a Maryland, and they just cannot be legally blocked by the talent on the offensive line. The refs simply swallow the whistle on holding rather than let a team rack up 10+ sacks. Which is exasperating if you are the team getting held on every play, because at least the other team should be forced to bring in another tight end or a fullback to help or something. It also hurts in recruiting stud pass rushers.

Now, what you are describing is kind of in the opposite direction. So to me it sounds like general referee suckitude. Maybe they're moving away from that "refereeing parity" mindset, and just sucking equally for everyone. Or maybe they are moving more toward protecting favorites. But no doubt they suck.


Good post, I appreciate the insight. I prefer parity, even if it sucks, it sucks for both teams...I don't want to lead anyone into thinking that I am stating that the ACC is behind the ref issue. Sometimes, officials become too much apart of the action and think THEY are a part of the action, when it should be the exact opposite. There have been a couple of cases of rogue officials across numerous sports that have done a number of things that have had impact on their particular sport...like I said, good post, and most likely explanation.
 
They called nothing on Clemson, that I remember. Not that it would've made much of a difference. But from my seat, it looked like Clemson WR's got away with pushing off a few times, they definitely missed some holding calls too.
 
Bump...
I might be on your side after this one. I don't think it played any result in the outcome of this debacle, but throw us a bone here. Can't be any more one sided as far as calls could go
 
I might be on your side after this one. I don't think it played any result in the outcome of this debacle, but throw us a bone here. Can't be any more one sided as far as calls could go

That's all I was looking for...an honest assessment of how others saw the officiating. Like I said, I don't think it's a vast "ACC" conspiracy, but officials have been known to do some strange stuff. Even with the bad calls or lack thereof, we were out coached and the players weren't put in a position to succeed...3-4 defense Oh Lord...it seems as though the staff reads this board because they tried to incorporate the TE for a series or two, but it looked forced...not in the flow of the game...not giving our play-makers the ability to get into a flow, no rhyme or reason to the personnel groupings and sub packages...no noticeable adjustments after the half with the exception of pulling Hunt (which I think still gives us the best chance to win), I am a HCSS supporter, and I am not ready to admit that he might be in over his head, but I think he needs to figure things out quickly before our "Express" is derailed again.
 
Missed the first half, pretty sure that the officiating didn't affect the outcome.

But I was also disappointed by the long touchdown run late in the third quarter. Looked like Darius Kelly got held and then kicked/tripped to take him out of position from making the tackle. Seemed like an obvious penalty.
 

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