WSJ on NFL quarterback "crisis"

[Millhouse]

The NFL guys want to put down college but I think they make themselves look stupid here. Adapt!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454

Doug Whaley is still an idiot

The knowledge base was so low, Buffalo’s Whaley said, that it left him feeling “a little nervous about the long-term future of this game.”

 

[K Otto XLIV]

The NFL guys want to put down college but I think they make themselves look stupid here. Adapt!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454

Doug Whaley is still an idiot

The knowledge base was so low, Buffalo’s Whaley said, that it left him feeling “a little nervous about the long-term future of this game.”

Drafting QBs is a crap shoot. Teams continue to insist on overreaching on QBs. Last year 6 of the 12 playoff teams did not acquire their QB in the first round (later pick or via trade). Only 3 of the top 10 rated QBs last year were acquired by their team in the 1st round. QBs are risky picks so why take a QB in the 1st or 2nd round unless you think he is a can't miss? Just ask yourself is this guy a future pro bowler?

2015
1st- I think both Winston and Mariota were too risky to be taken before mid 1st round.
2nd- None

2014
1st- Bortles 3rd overall? He might end up being a decent QB but would you use the 3rd pick on decent? Johnny Manziel! Bridgewater I think was a good pick.
2nd- Carr? Garroppolo?

2013
1st- EJ Manual?
2012- Geno Smith!

2012
1st- Luck was worth it. RGIII? Running QB are always get hurt and he didn't play in a pro system. Tennehill 8th? I think that was too high. Similar to my thoughts on Bortles. Weeden!
2nd- Osweiler?

2011
1st- I think Newton was risky. He is a physical freak but he will never be a good passer. Locker? Gabbert? Ponder!
2nd- Dalton I thought was risky but he has turned out to be a good pick. Kaepernick IMO is a product of his environment and not worth a 2nd round pick.

2010
1st- Bradford? See Tannehill and Bortles. Tebow!
2nd- Clausen?


Most of those guys we knew before they were drafted that they wouldn't even be franchise QBs. How many of these guys realistically were going to be QB of the team that drafted them for the next 10 years? The college game didn't cause the GMs to make bad decisions. Most of those guys were no different going into the draft than guys like Wilson, Foles, Cousins. The difference is using a 1st/2nd round pick and missing vs using a 3rd round pick.

Also in the article it talks about how QBs are not ready to start right away. Well duh. It wasn't too long ago that a drafted QB was expected to sit 2 years before they saw the field. Now that QBs are less "ready" you expect them to play right away?

 

[Scooch]

QBs in the NFL have become like Centers in the NBA.

GMs are afraid to NOT take a high profile one, even though there is a mountain of evidence that it's a bad idea.

 

[texascpa]

The NFL guys want to put down college but I think they make themselves look stupid here. Adapt!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454

Doug Whaley is still an idiot

The knowledge base was so low, Buffalo’s Whaley said, that it left him feeling “a little nervous about the long-term future of this game.”

You want the top echelon of football to dumb down their requirements? Sounds like the public school system. Dumb down the curriculum so even the slowest student can keep up.

 

[skurey]

Lol what. QB is the most important position in football. Drafting QBs early and often is obviously the correct strategy. Teams should be selecting multiple QBs every draft if they need one.

 

[upperdeck]

regardless of whether they can do it or not why do we hear so much about QBs reading the D if they are not? or is the D in college so dumbed down its not really that hard to read? even if you were Petty playing at high speed wouldnt you want to know where the Mike was so you would have a better idea how the play would work .

if you look at the issues Hunt had, he waited until a guy came open and then threw instead of knowing where the guy will come open and have the ball there when he does. if thats the way many teams are doing it and the D is simple compared to the NFL why dont college coaches get their kids to read the D better and take advantage even more of the tempo plays. you cant always scheme every play open.

 

[CIL]

The NFL guys want to put down college but I think they make themselves look stupid here. Adapt!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454

Doug Whaley is still an idiot

The knowledge base was so low, Buffalo’s Whaley said, that it left him feeling “a little nervous about the long-term future of this game.”

Why exactly?

 

[Millhouse]

Why exactly?

why to which part?

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Lol what. QB is the most important position in football. Drafting QBs early and often is obviously the correct strategy. Teams should be selecting multiple QBs every draft if they need one.

QB is important but if there aren't any quality QBs to take, it is silly to waste a pick just to take one. In the 2010s half of the Super Bowls have been won by teams that didn't acquire their QB via the 1st or 2nd round of the draft. If drafting early and often is the correct strategy than why do the same teams keep picking QBs early and often? You telling me the Browns wouldn't be a better team if they had the Weeden and Manziel picks back? What team has had success using the "correct" strategy?

 

[CIL]

why to which part?

I'm not sure what you are implying with your posts in this thread. Are you saying that the NFL should adopt more of the collegiate game with pre snap reads, etc for the QB?

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not sure what you are implying with your posts in this thread. Are you saying that the NFL should adopt more of the collegiate game with pre snap reads, etc for the QB?

Yes

Too many grudens

 

[tep624]

Best thing about Blake Bortles is his girlfriend...scratch that, ex-girlfriend.

 

[OburgOrange]

Best thing about Blake Bortles is his girlfriend...scratch that, ex-girlfriend.

Pics?

 

[Scooch]

Lol what. QB is the most important position in football. Drafting QBs early and often is obviously the correct strategy. Teams should be selecting multiple QBs every draft if they need one.

I agree with often, but why early?

What multi-position objective evaluation system values Johnny Manziel as a top 5 pick? There is a weird FOMO at play when it comes to QBs and GMs.

 

[CIL]

Yes

Too many grudens

I get what you are laying down and a lot of that stuff has already made it's way into the NFL.

Last year, close to 60 percent of the snaps in the NFL came from the gun. I think I read 75 or 80 percent of plays were run out of a one back set.

Pre snap reads are pretty much abundant, and have been for a lot longer than most think. Bill Walsh's original WCO had a ton of baked in reads.

That being said, the biggest obstacle most QB's encounter upon entering the league is the speed of the defenders. They close a helluva lost faster on read option wr screens than college. Passing windows are a heck of a lot tighter than the college game. Arm strength is much more important than the college game.

I don't think the QB will ever go the way of the center. Unlike the NBA, the QB touches the ball on every single play. There is no 3 point line to minimize the importance of the QB.

There's a reason Chip Kelly traded for Bradford and cut Tebow.

 

[Millhouse]

I get what you are laying down and a lot of that stuff has already made it's way into the NFL.

Last year, close to 60 percent of the snaps in the NFL came from the gun. I think I read 75 or 80 percent of plays were run out of a one back set.

Pre snap reads are pretty much abundant, and have been for a lot longer than most think. Bill Walsh's original WCO had a ton of baked in reads.

That being said, the biggest obstacle most QB's encounter upon entering the league is the speed of the defenders. They close a helluva lost faster on read option wr screens than college. Passing windows are a heck of a lot tighter than the college game. Arm strength is much more important than the college game.

I don't think the QB will ever go the way of the center. Unlike the NBA, the QB touches the ball on every single play. There is no 3 point line to minimize the importance of the QB.

There's a reason Chip Kelly traded for Bradford and cut Tebow.

there's also a reason why an ordinary college qb had a 100 qb rating during kelly's first year.

tebow is a very lucky guy. so much of what we thought was his awesomeness is really just being the first high profile guy in urban meyer's offense. lousy thrower, waits forever to make lousy throws, not that fast. a fullback that can throw a little opens up everything. move that fullback out to catch passes. gets one more defender out of the way. read a different defender to get him out of the way. spread WR out wide and always have the option to pitch out on a screen. takes even more defenders out of the way to run. it's so easy, this stuff has been solved. the only answer is to kill the qb. eventually there'll be enough of these guys to just live with that risk knowing your backup can do it.

i think QB is incredibly important which is why teams should stop beating their head against the wall and make it easier for them.

these nfl guys are nuts. it's not like there's ever been a time where college offenses prepare pro style qbs to be consistently good as rookies.

i think they're just looking for someone to blame for whiffing. ryan and whaley are going this route this year and they're getting it out there on the record now in case it doesn't go well. pretty lame

 

[Millhouse]

regardless of whether they can do it or not why do we hear so much about QBs reading the D if they are not? or is the D in college so dumbed down its not really that hard to read? even if you were Petty playing at high speed wouldnt you want to know where the Mike was so you would have a better idea how the play would work .

if you look at the issues Hunt had, he waited until a guy came open and then threw instead of knowing where the guy will come open and have the ball there when he does. if thats the way many teams are doing it and the D is simple compared to the NFL why dont college coaches get their kids to read the D better and take advantage even more of the tempo plays. you cant always scheme every play open.

that's what was so infuriating about last year. mcdonald took something that was dumbed down and dumbed it down even more. those screens couldn't have involved any reading at all.

i don't think many teams did anything the way we did it. if i were a coach, i would spend half the time working on back shoulder throws the way Stitt does. simple reads, spread to run, when you do throw and you're covered, boom back shoulder.

 

[Scooch]

FWIW, my comment about QBs and NBA centers was only about their draft position, not their value to a team or the game in general.

 

[reedny]

You want the top echelon of football to dumb down their requirements? Sounds like the public school system. Dumb down the curriculum so even the slowest student can keep up.

Let's not dumb down the thread (OTB, please).

 

[Alsacs]

Plenty of college teams still run pro offenses. Florida State, USC, Texas, now Michigan. College QBs are being developed into pro QBs. The problem is pro teams are now rushing these rookies to play right away. Rookie QBs should be developed and not thrown into starting week 1.

 

[CusefanATL]

Drafting QBs is a crap shoot. Teams continue to insist on overreaching on QBs. Last year 6 of the 12 playoff teams did not acquire their QB in the first round (later pick or via trade). Only 3 of the top 10 rated QBs last year were acquired by their team in the 1st round. QBs are risky picks so why take a QB in the 1st or 2nd round unless you think he is a can't miss? Just ask yourself is this guy a future pro bowler?

2015
1st- I think both Winston and Mariota were too risky to be taken before mid 1st round.
2nd- None

2014
1st- Bortles 3rd overall? He might end up being a decent QB but would you use the 3rd pick on decent? Johnny Manziel! Bridgewater I think was a good pick.
2nd- Carr? Garroppolo?

2013
1st- EJ Manual?
2012- Geno Smith!

2012
1st- Luck was worth it. RGIII? Running QB are always get hurt and he didn't play in a pro system. Tennehill 8th? I think that was too high. Similar to my thoughts on Bortles. Weeden!
2nd- Osweiler?

2011
1st- I think Newton was risky. He is a physical freak but he will never be a good passer. Locker? Gabbert? Ponder!
2nd- Dalton I thought was risky but he has turned out to be a good pick. Kaepernick IMO is a product of his environment and not worth a 2nd round pick.

2010
1st- Bradford? See Tannehill and Bortles. Tebow!
2nd- Clausen?


Most of those guys we knew before they were drafted that they wouldn't even be franchise QBs. How many of these guys realistically were going to be QB of the team that drafted them for the next 10 years? The college game didn't cause the GMs to make bad decisions. Most of those guys were no different going into the draft than guys like Wilson, Foles, Cousins. The difference is using a 1st/2nd round pick and missing vs using a 3rd round pick.

Also in the article it talks about how QBs are not ready to start right away. Well duh. It wasn't too long ago that a drafted QB was expected to sit 2 years before they saw the field. Now that QBs are less "ready" you expect them to play right away?

Questioning the Bradford pick is not fair. Sometimes you make the correct pick and it doesn't work out.

If Andrew Luck had 2 injuries so far you would question that pick. And you'd be dead wrong.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Questioning the Bradford pick is not fair. Sometimes you make the correct pick and it doesn't work out.

If Andrew Luck had 2 injuries so far you would question that pick. And you'd be dead wrong.

Not just the injuries. IMO if you take a QB with the #1 overall pick he should be a difference maker. You should expect that guy to be a future pro bowler. I never though of Bradford as that type of guy. If he was taken 20th overall he would be a good pick. IMO you don't spend a top 10 pick on a decent player. Of the Top 7 picks in that draft he is the only guy who hasn't made a pro bowl. He was healthy in 2012 and IMO didn't show Top 10 talent.

 

[CIL]

there's also a reason why an ordinary college qb had a 100 qb rating during kelly's first year.

tebow is a very lucky guy. so much of what we thought was his awesomeness is really just being the first high profile guy in urban meyer's offense. lousy thrower, waits forever to make lousy throws, not that fast. a fullback that can throw a little opens up everything. move that fullback out to catch passes. gets one more defender out of the way. read a different defender to get him out of the way. spread WR out wide and always have the option to pitch out on a screen. takes even more defenders out of the way to run. it's so easy, this stuff has been solved. the only answer is to kill the qb. eventually there'll be enough of these guys to just live with that risk knowing your backup can do it.

i think QB is incredibly important which is why teams should stop beating their head against the wall and make it easier for them.

these nfl guys are nuts. it's not like there's ever been a time where college offenses prepare pro style qbs to be consistently good as rookies.

i think they're just looking for someone to blame for whiffing. ryan and whaley are going this route this year and they're getting it out there on the record now in case it doesn't go well. pretty lame

I think we agree to an extent. The game is "simpler" than it used to be, but it will never be as simple as the college or HS game because NFL defenses are far better and complex.

As for the QB rating stat - it's a horrible metric to measure QB's by. It puts waaay too much emphasis on completion percentages. Football Outsiders has some better stats on their site. They rank them in the football equivalent to WAR (not 100% apples to apples). Foles and Sanchez ranked in the bottom third last year - but at least ahead of Orton!!

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2014

 

[Millhouse]

I think we agree to an extent. The game is "simpler" than it used to be, but it will never be as simple as the college or HS game because NFL defenses are far better and complex.

As for the QB rating stat - it's a horrible metric to measure QB's by. It puts waaay too much emphasis on completion percentages. Football Outsiders has some better stats on their site. They rank them in the football equivalent to WAR (not 100% apples to apples). Foles and Sanchez ranked in the bottom third last year - but at least ahead of Orton!!

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2014

foles was bad last year. pick any metric and he was really good the year before. i was going by memory and him being around 100 was easy to remember, it was actually 120. ay/a is a very simple metric. it's just yards per attempts with adjustments for td and int (basically turns tds and ints into positive and negative yards). foles led the league in ay/a

he was incredible in 2013

 

[retro44]

Best thing about Blake Bortles is his girlfriend...scratch that, ex-girlfriend.

Good for me......