WVU deal to exit BE

[007]

That is not a tenable argument.

There was no breech of contract.

There was a settlement.

A lawsuit was settled.

Even in the absence of a lawsuit, the parties could have reached a financial settlement to waive the BE contract.

SU can do the same thing if it is so inclined.

Agreed.

With respect to SU doing the same, do you think that the WVU settlement established the value of compensatory damages? I would tend to think that this figure is going to be higher for SU and Pitt given that it can be argued that the WVU move was in reaction to SU and Pitt leaving. Regardless, it is hard to imagine that this will be a viable position for SU unless they receive equal value in return for moving to the ACC in advance of the 27 months.

 

[rrlbees]

Agreed.

With respect to SU doing the same, do you think that the WVU settlement established the value of compensatory damages? I would tend to think that this figure is going to be higher for SU and Pitt given that it can be argued that the WVU move was in reaction to SU and Pitt leaving. Regardless, it is hard to imagine that this will be a viable position for SU unless they receive equal value in return for moving to the ACC in advance of the 27 months.

The BE owes WVU $8M so it will be off set by that some. Why would the figure be higher for SU and Pitt? I'm telling you, we should just go to the ACC and not show up for the BE. Everyone wants to put the blame on SU and Pitt when it is the BE and Marinara that did nothing for the conference football schools.

 

[Cuseman78]

Lets hope the powers that be get out the check book and do the same. Good job by WVU

 

[kcsu]

Marianclueless will go down as one of the worst commissioners in the history of the Ncaa. He allowed the basketball schools and more importantly ND to rule the roost which is why Pitt and SU left. If he would have pulled the trigger on the new contract we would still be members.

 

[GoSU96]

No. Jurrie posted the exact bylaw earlier today. Once we announced our exit, we get nothing from anyone's buyout.

That's not correct. I found the post.

The effective date of withdrawal is the day they end participation, not the date they give notice.

What happens is that during the pending period any conference distrubtions are credited against that schools withdrawal fee and they lose membership on conference committees.

If anything would be coming to SU it would go towards paying SU's withdrawal fee first.

ARTICLE XI – TEMINATION, SUSPENSION, PROBATION AND WITHDRAWAL OF MEMBERS

11.02 Withdrawal from Membership

All rights of a Withdrawing Member in the Conference and in the assets and revenue of the Conference shall cease as of the effective date of its withdrawal, including without limitation any rights to distributions which would otherwise become due after such effective date, even if such distributions are based on matters that occurred prior to such effective date, During the pendency of a Withdrawing Member’s withdrawal, the Withdrawing Member’s share of revenue distributed by the Conference that would otherwise be paid to such Member shall first be credited towards any amounts which are or will be payable by the Withdrawing Member to the Conference until those amounts are fully satisfied. The Director, Athletic Director and any other agent of a Withdrawing Member shall be automatically removed from any Committee membership or any other position in which they are serving as a representative of the Conference, immediately upon the receipt by the Conference of the Member’s Withdrawal Notice.​

 

[kingottoiii]

I think this would allow us to leave the BE for much less even if we leave right away. We can use the fact that we planned on playing 9 BE games for 2012 and now without WV and TCU we are left with two huge holes to the schedule that we cannot fill this late in the game. As a result we have to leave for the ACC now.

Even if we are stuck in the BE for 2012 in FB, I would love to see us leave for all other sports for the 2012-13 season. There really is no reason for the BE to want our programs around besides the FB team. And if the MWC and CUSA really are merging in FB there is no reason why the 4 future BE teams shouldnt be able to come in 2012 allowing us to leave early. If Boise, SD St, Houston, and SMU came in 2012 how would that really effect their current conferences? If there is an early exit fee make SU and Pitt cover it for those teams and everyone wins.

 

[GoSU96]

Agreed.

With respect to SU doing the same, do you think that the WVU settlement established the value of compensatory damages? I would tend to think that this figure is going to be higher for SU and Pitt given that it can be argued that the WVU move was in reaction to SU and Pitt leaving. Regardless, it is hard to imagine that this will be a viable position for SU unless they receive equal value in return for moving to the ACC in advance of the 27 months.

Two different cases. WVU is paying this sum because it wants to buy out of the injunction and their leaving next year creates substantial harm because of scheduling problems and conference size concerns.

If SU and Pitt stay through spring 2013 as they said they will those concerns are mitigated by the additions that the BE has put in place for the 2013 season.

 

[Noexcuse]

The new rumor is that the B12 is now looking at ACC teams instead of BE teams. Clemson and FSU in particular.

Ugh. If that were to happen that would open up 2 spots in the ACC for . . . . I shudder to think . . .

 

[007]

Two different cases. WVU is paying this sum because it wants to buy out of the injunction and their leaving next year creates substantial harm because of scheduling problems and conference size concerns.

If SU and Pitt stay through spring 2013 as they said they will those concerns are mitigated by the additions that the BE has put in place for the 2013 season.

I don't disagree with that Go. I was talking specifically to SU leaving for the 2012 football season, as per WVU.

 

[OrangePA]

The BE owes WVU $8M so it will be off set by that some. Why would the figure be higher for SU and Pitt? I'm telling you, we should just go to the ACC and not show up for the BE. Everyone wants to put the blame on SU and Pitt when it is the BE and Marinara that did nothing for the conference football schools.

I really don't hear too many folks blaming SU or Pitt these days.

Re-alignment has become the norm - not the exception.

I'm sure that the WVU deal involves some form of give-back. For example, WVU might have agreed to forego its bowl money and/or TV money along with an exit payment.

In other words, the $24 million is probably not a total cash payment.

 

[OrangePA]

Marianclueless will go down as one of the worst commissioners in the history of the Ncaa. He allowed the basketball schools and more importantly ND to rule the roost which is why Pitt and SU left. If he would have pulled the trigger on the new contract we would still be members.

KC always going for the jugular.

I presume that the Commissioner is prohibited from taking the kind of unilateral action that your post mentions.

The blame should be placed on the schools and the BE contract that apparently grants equal votes to all members, including the BB only members.

The Commissioner is an employee of the schools - all of them. He is not a dictator.

 

[orange79]

That's not correct. I found the post.

The effective date of withdrawal is the day they end participation, not the date they give notice.

What happens is that during the pending period any conference distrubtions are credited against that schools withdrawal fee and they lose membership on conference committees.

If anything would be coming to SU it would go towards paying SU's withdrawal fee first.

ARTICLE XI – TEMINATION, SUSPENSION, PROBATION AND WITHDRAWAL OF MEMBERS​

11.02 Withdrawal from Membership​

All rights of a Withdrawing Member in the Conference and in the assets and revenue of the Conference shall cease as of the effective date of its withdrawal, including without limitation any rights to distributions which would otherwise become due after such effective date, even if such distributions are based on matters that occurred prior to such effective date, During the pendency of a Withdrawing Member’s withdrawal, the Withdrawing Member’s share of revenue distributed by the Conference that would otherwise be paid to such Member shall first be credited towards any amounts which are or will be payable by the Withdrawing Member to the Conference until those amounts are fully satisfied. The Director, Athletic Director and any other agent of a Withdrawing Member shall be automatically removed from any Committee membership or any other position in which they are serving as a representative of the Conference, immediately upon the receipt by the Conference of the Member’s Withdrawal Notice.​

OK. So what happens to any NCAA credits due to SU? I believe they are paid on a 3-to-4 year lag, correct? Would they be applied to any exit fee also? And what if the amount due exceeded the amount owed (exit fee)? They way I read this is that we may be leaving credits on the table. It does not say explicitly that after we meet the exit fee we would receive the balance. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be missing a nuance or two.

 

[Toga]

OK. So what happens to any NCAA credits due to SU? I believe they are paid on a 3-to-4 year lag, correct? Would they be applied to any exit fee also? And what if the amount due exceeded the amount owed (exit fee)? They way I read this is that we may be leaving credits on the table. It does not say explicitly that after we meet the exit fee we would receive the balance. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be missing a nuance or two.

Why a 3-4 year lag?

 

[orange79]

Why a 3-4 year lag?

Actually, I think how much a conference earns in any given year is paid out over a 6 year period, according to several sites I just searched.

 

[Toga]

OK - so who can provide the breakeven point factoring in: share of WV money, incremental value of ACC media money over BE, NCAA credits, other.?

Assuming the money works, I feel as apparently many here do, that I'm fine with one more year for FB. However, I would like to start kicking some ACC butt in basketball as soon as possible.

 

[sufan]

Supposedly $24M.

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What is the source of this supposed rumor?

 

[sufan]

The new rumor is that the B12 is now looking at ACC teams instead of BE teams. Clemson and FSU in particular.

---------------

Any source for your latest rumor? Any Big 12 or ACC coach, AD, President, conference official ?

 

[kcsu]

KC always going for the jugular.

I presume that the Commissioner is prohibited from taking the kind of unilateral action that your post mentions.

The blame should be placed on the schools and the BE contract that apparently grants equal votes to all members, including the BB only members.

The Commissioner is an employee of the schools - all of them. He is not a dictator.

What i have heard Orange is that he strongly suggested the Big East turn the deal down. Gross was very much for the deal on the table and new that it would not only stablize the Big East but put us in position to expand with quality teams which would have triggered additional dollars. So yes you are technically correct but the negative vote was a result of him not being supportive of it.

 

[rrlbees]

---------------

Any source for your latest rumor? Any Big 12 or ACC coach, AD, President, conference official ?

 

[sutomcat]

Supposedly $24M.

Despite their claims to the contrary, I believe WVU's invitation was contingent on them being available to the Big 12 in 2012. They really didn't have a choice...it was either pay the money and get out, or not pay it and run the risk that they would be left orphaned in the Big East forever.

I think Syracuse is going to initially make somewhere in the range of 3 or 4 million years a year more playing in the ACC instead of the Big East based on conference revenue sharing only. Ticket sales may decrease to some degree, we will get less money from the ACC for the NCAA basketball tournament given how poorly ACC schools have fared overall in recent years, travel costs will increase (still hoping the ACC will at least go with geographically based North and South divisions for non-revenue sports) but the TV money is much higher and adding Pitt and SU will make it higher still.

Hard to justify spending $20 million dollars to leave a year or two early when we struggle so much to just raise $10 million for an indoor practice facility for football.

In 2013, with lots of new teams in place to replace SU and Pitt, the price for leaving a year early should be dramatically lower. Hoping it will be in the range of $5 million, so in effect it costs Syracuse almost nothing to leave early.

When the Big East renegotiates it's football and basketball TV contract later this year, we should root for the conference to get a lot of money. That should reduce the damages the conference will suffer should SU and Pitt leave early, and thus reduce the fee the schools will pay for leaving early.

 

[rrlbees]

Despite their claims to the contrary, I believe WVU's invitation was contingent on them being available to the Big 12 in 2012. They really didn't have a choice...it was either pay the money and get out, or not pay it and run the risk that they would be left orphaned in the Big East forever.

I think Syracuse is going to initially make somewhere in the range of 3 or 4 million years a year more playing in the ACC instead of the Big East based on conference revenue sharing only. Ticket sales may decrease to some degree, we will get less money from the ACC for the NCAA basketball tournament given how poorly ACC schools have fared overall in recent years, travel costs will increase (still hoping the ACC will at least go with geographically based North and South divisions for non-revenue sports) but the TV money is much higher and adding Pitt and SU will make it higher still.

Hard to justify spending $20 million dollars to leave a year or two early when we struggle so much to just raise $10 million for an indoor practice facility for football.

In 2013, with lots of new teams in place to replace SU and Pitt, the price for leaving a year early should be dramatically lower. Hoping it will be in the range of $5 million, so in effect it costs Syracuse almost nothing to leave early.

When the Big East renegotiates it's football and basketball TV contract later this year, we should root for the conference to get a lot of money. That should reduce the damages the conference will suffer should SU and Pitt leave early, and thus reduce the fee the schools will pay for leaving early.

The BE has done harm to SU next year with no WVU or TCU.

 

[orange79]

The BE has done harm to SU next year with no WVU or TCU.

I agree. We will most likely need 2 (3?) 1-AA teams to fill the gaps in the schedule. I think you could make the argument that the BE, by not accepting the new contract and other missteps, has done financial harm to SU in lower TV revenues and lower ticket sales.

 

[BORZAK]

MAYBE UWV PLAYS SU AND PITT STILL ,AS WELL THE NEW TEAMS JOINING THE BIG EAST MIGHT PLAY GAMES WITH BIG EAST OPPONETS

 

[Orangello]

The BE has done harm to SU next year with no WVU or TCU.

Exactly, I would tell the Marionette I want $2M per for eachof those games. You created this problem by letting them both out jackarse.

 

[Scooch]

I think Syracuse is going to initially make somewhere in the range of 3 or 4 million years a year more playing in the ACC instead of the Big East based on conference revenue sharing only. Ticket sales may decrease to some degree, we will get less money from the ACC for the NCAA basketball tournament given how poorly ACC schools have fared overall in recent years, travel costs will increase (still hoping the ACC will at least go with geographically based North and South divisions for non-revenue sports) but the TV money is much higher and adding Pitt and SU will make it higher still.

On the former, it may end up being significantly more than that. As of now SU would be making at least twice in the ACC from the primary media deal than it makes in the BE. I don't know the figures, but I suspect we'll do better in terms of secondary and tertiary media money as well. The gap could close when the BE signs a new deal with someone(s) next year, but I'm not sold that it;ll be a slam dunk huge increase (relatively speaking).

I'm surprised to see you make the comment about ticket sales though, Tom. Why do you feel that way? In terms of football, I would think at worst it's a wash. And I'm optimistic that if the program improves we'll do at least somewhat better (no one in the BE travels well aside from WVU, so that doesn't matter, and I'm guessing that if we're decent and playing one of the decent ACC teams the draw is a little better than the dreck of the BE).

In terms of hoops, is our attendance that dependent on opponent? Would a mid-week game against, say, NC State or Georgia Tech really draw much less than against a Marquette or Seton Hall?