WVU deal to exit BE

[SU2NASA]

Over the next two seasons, we would make far more in the ACC, plus the increased revenue from ticket sales with more attractive opponents (including playing 9 conference games instead of having two 1-AA baby seals to club), some sort of increase in donations, etc.

Let's get the hell out of the Big East. Someone raid the general fund, and take a little more to get some 5-stars in here.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I would imagine that Syracuse is planning on taking the route that makes the most sense financially

 

[GoSU96]

IMO, we should be allowed to leave or sue the BE because the BE went against the supposed BE contract and allowed WVU to leave at all. Marinara put himself in the position to be sued by stating both publicly and in BE meetings that ALL teams had to remain the 27 months. SU needs to now sue the out of the BE for failure to live up to the contract. There are NO provisions for early buyouts.

That's goofy.

 

[sutomcat]

Regarding the money, I agree it will be significantly more down the road. I guess my point is that difference in the first couple of years will not come close to offsetting a $24 million exit fee...but it would if it were in the $5 -$6 million range.

With football, I think things will be about the same. I honestly don't think the opponent makes a big difference right now. There are only a handful of schools that make a really positive impact here (USC, ND, etc.). and they aren't going to play in the Dome, at least not when they don't have to. All things being equal, I think it does down a little but the most important thing here is whether we are winning or not.

For basketball, yes, I think we will take a hit. Let's assume that the statements by Dr Cantor that SU will play some home games in MSG that were later recanted, kind of, by Dr Gross, were not true.

No question that home games against Duke and UNC (maybe we get one a year) will be major events. Pitt will remain an interesting game and a schedule highlight, though I don't think we can even count on a home and home with them each year. Who else? I don't think any of the other teams in the ACC are going to bring fans to the Dome.

We are leaving a conference where what, 11 teams made the NCAA tournament last year? We had somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 or 10 are ranked during that season (I think we have 8 or 9 this year too), we had 6 or 7 ranked in pretty much every poll last season. It is a conference Syracuse founded and played in for 32 years. From it, SU established some of the best rivalries in the history of Eastern basketball. It is without question the best conference in the country, we play a ton of ranked or almost ranked teams and there are lots of great games to watch in the Dome each season. It was a pretty special place.

The ACC has a proud history but it has been down for a while and it will be down when we join it. There aren't going to be as many games against ranked teams, we are losing a lot of traditional rivalries, the fanbase has to start from square one building hatred over all the new teams...I just don't see the attendance remaining at current levels. I think it has to go down somewhat. Not a collapse but a definite decrease. Too many Clemson, Wake, BC, GT, UM, FSU, UMD, UVa, VT, NC St snoozers.

If they decide to move some home basketball games to MSG, things really get interesting and not in a good way.

I hope some of the downtrodden lost sheep ACC hoops programs find their way and become good soon.

 

[jr4750]

Regarding the money, I agree it will be significantly more down the road. I guess my point is that difference in the first couple of years will not come close to offsetting a $24 million exit fee...but it would if it were in the $5 -$6 million range.

With football, I think things will be about the same. I honestly don't think the opponent makes a big difference right now. There are only a handful of schools that make a really positive impact here (USC, ND, etc.). and they aren't going to play in the Dome, at least not when they don't have to. All things being equal, I think it does down a little but the most important thing here is whether we are winning or not.

For basketball, yes, I think we will take a hit. Let's assume that the statements by Dr Cantor that SU will play some home games in MSG that were later recanted, kind of, by Dr Gross, were not true.

No question that home games against Duke and UNC (maybe we get one a year) will be major events. Pitt will remain an interesting game and a schedule highlight, though I don't think we can even count on a home and home with them each year. Who else? I don't think any of the other teams in the ACC are going to bring fans to the Dome.

We are leaving a conference where what, 11 teams made the NCAA tournament last year? We had somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 or 10 are ranked during that season (I think we have 8 or 9 this year too), we had 6 or 7 ranked in pretty much every poll last season. It is a conference Syracuse founded and played in for 32 years. From it, SU established some of the best rivalries in the history of Eastern basketball. It is without question the best conference in the country, we play a ton of ranked or almost ranked teams and there are lots of great games to watch in the Dome each season. It was a pretty special place.

The ACC has a proud history but it has been down for a while and it will be down when we join it. There aren't going to be as many games against ranked teams, we are losing a lot of traditional rivalries, the fanbase has to start from square one building hatred over all the new teams...I just don't see the attendance remaining at current levels. I think it has to go down somewhat. Not a collapse but a definite decrease. Too many Clemson, Wake, BC, GT, UM, FSU, UMD, UVa, VT, NC St snoozers.

If they decide to move some home basketball games to MSG, things really get interesting and not in a good way.

I hope some of the downtrodden lost sheep ACC hoops programs find their way and become good soon.

Sorry Tom, hard and stupid question looming...

If you had to sum up your thoughts on where you think SU will be in 10 years, not conference wise, but competitiveness wise, what would you guesstimate?

Something like...
middle of the road ACC team,
third in name recognition in hoops, and usual finish,
bottom 1/3 football school
Up and down olympic sports?

I too am worried about all the things you mentioned... Attendance decline, competitiveness decline in terms of hoops, and a general malaise from fans over rivalry's. Stuck between a rock (BE) and a hard place (ACC - being left out). It's a little sad and scary...

 

[OrangePA]

Sorry Tom, hard and stupid question looming...

If you had to sum up your thoughts on where you think SU will be in 10 years, not conference wise, but competitiveness wise, what would you guesstimate?

Something like...
middle of the road ACC team,
third in name recognition in hoops, and usual finish,
bottom 1/3 football school
Up and down olympic sports?

I too am worried about all the things you mentioned... Attendance decline, competitiveness decline in terms of hoops, and a general malaise from fans over rivalry's. Stuck between a rock (BE) and a hard place (ACC - being left out). It's a little sad and scary...

With conference re-alignment, changes in the BCS, changes in TV money, concerns regarding payment of athletes, concerns over cheating and academics, I don't think anyone knows where the sport will be in ten years.

I am confident that all things being equal, SU Football will be very competitive in the ACC in the next ten years.

 

[rrlbees]

That's goofy.

The BE has done harm to SU with both the schedule and potential dollars.

 

[SU2NASA]

The BE has done harm to SU with both the schedule and potential dollars.

With this WVU deal apparently done, what are we going to do?

 

[kingottoiii]

That's goofy.

How is that goofy? We abided by the bylaws and thought that we were playing WV in 2012. Now we have to find a replacement for that game. Which means we likely have to buy a mid major out of one of their OOC games (costs $) and then pay the said team to appear in the Dome to play us (costs more $). WV by leaving early is compensating UL, Cincy, USF, RU, and UConn by paying money to make up for it. However in our situation we get none of that WV money. So either the BE owes SU money from WV's early exit fees (in which SU sues the BE), or WV needs to compensate SU for leaving early (similar to how Baylor threatened to file suit vs Mizzou even though the B12 gave their blessing). WV's early exit is costing SU money and we should be compensated.

 

[rrlbees]

How is that goofy? We abided by the bylaws and thought that we were playing WV in 2012. Now we have to find a replacement for that game. Which means we likely have to buy a mid major out of one of their OOC games (costs $) and then pay the said team to appear in the Dome to play us (costs more $). WV by leaving early is compensating UL, Cincy, USF, RU, and UConn by paying money to make up for it. However in our situation we get none of that WV money. So either the BE owes SU money from WV's early exit fees (in which SU sues the BE), or WV needs to compensate SU for leaving early (similar to how Baylor threatened to file suit vs Mizzou even though the B12 gave their blessing). WV's early exit is costing SU money and we should be compensated.

Someone gets it.

 

[sutomcat]

Sorry Tom, hard and stupid question looming...

If you had to sum up your thoughts on where you think SU will be in 10 years, not conference wise, but competitiveness wise, what would you guesstimate?

Something like...
middle of the road ACC team,
third in name recognition in hoops, and usual finish,
bottom 1/3 football school
Up and down olympic sports?

I too am worried about all the things you mentioned... Attendance decline, competitiveness decline in terms of hoops, and a general malaise from fans over rivalry's. Stuck between a rock (BE) and a hard place (ACC - being left out). It's a little sad and scary...

Well, let's break it out into individual sports.

The Olympic sports...I think we will always be a power in men's lacrosse, expect a couple NCs here over the next 10 years. The ACC if anything will make us stronger. Same applies to women's lacrosse. We are recruiting well, and Gait is going to get us some hardware for women.

Women's hoops...Q hasn't shown me much on the coaching front. He can recruit but on gameday, he is not getting things done. Hope he can get it together, I like him as a person a lot.

Men's hoops.....we have the Melo Center, we have as much talent as anyone in the pipeline, we have the Carrier Dome, which will remain unique because of its size. We will be playing an easier schedule, should be able to get 13 or 14 conference wins each season without much problem. Attendance might take a hit...but that could be offset by a long term stay in the top 10, which I think is a distinct possibility. The only fly in the ointment is JB's eventual retirement. Don't know if Hop can coach but we do know he is a phenomenal recruiter and we know he has spent a ton of time learning next to one of the top 3 or 4 head basketball coaches in the history of the college game. And we know JB thinks he is the man who should replace him. That is good enough for me.

Football...I think DM has shown he is able to win games against programs with more talent than he has. The question is, can he ever get to the point where he is on an equal footing with the other schools in the ACC (right now he is not there). I don't think the ACC is a level higher than the Big East is in the football. I think they are roughly equivalent. Overall, ACC facilities are a little better. We have to do something about this to ensure the long term success of football.

To me, SU is at a crossroads in football. If the school is willing to take a significant amount of the guaranteed increased revenues that will come with the ACC and invest them in things like a new indoor practice facility, better training facilities, nicer locker rooms, etc., I think we will be fine. I believe DM when he says that if he has a level playing field, he will have great success.

I hope don't end up end up siphoning off the profits from revenue sharing and putting them in the general fund. That will ensure we end up fighting it out for last place with Duke and BC...perennial lovable losers.

 

[zls44]

Someone gets it.

One problem.

Do you think WVU would have left if Pitt and Syracuse didn't? If not (the obvious answer), then you don't deserve a dime. It's like a home invader suing for damages after getting shot by the homeowner.

 

[arbitragegls]

a precedent has been set...BE has changed its contractual agreements and the loss of WVU is detrimental to 'Cuse...a legal option is now open to 'Cuse that the BE did not hold up its end of its contract...'Cuse becomes an injured party by not receiving dollars and the loss of a rival...would be an interesting legal fight...the BE may have to back off of the 27 months...unless 'Cuse and Pitt have agreed to staying regardless of WVU outcome.

 

[rrlbees]

Do you think WVU would have left if Pitt and Syracuse didn't?

Absolutely.

But we aren't talking about leaving per the contract. So it's not quite like shooting someone in your house.

 

[zls44]

Absolutely.

But we aren't talking about leaving per the contract. So it's not quite like shooting someone in your house.

[Edited to add a couple of thoughts]

I don't think the Big 12 would have gone to WVU first. I think it's the ends trying to justify the means. Nobody on Earth wants WVU as more than a warm body. The Big 12 doesn't need another FB power. They needed another body. The first domino in all this was the ACC move.

The SEC could have gone to 14 before that. But they weren't going to until that. And SU/Pitt made it happen.

I think we identified the arguments both sides (SU & Pitt/BE) would use in court. SU/Pitt would use the technicality argument, while the Big East would use the "if you didn't leave, this never happens" argument.

 

[Scooch]

One problem.

Do you think WVU would have left if Pitt and Syracuse didn't? If not (the obvious answer), then you don't deserve a dime. It's like a home invader suing for damages after getting shot by the homeowner.

Is that a serious question?

Every single Big East team would leave to go to any of the other 5 BCS leagues.

Every. Single. One.

 

[rrlbees]

[Edited to add a couple of thoughts]

I don't think the Big 12 would have gone to WVU first. I think it's the ends trying to justify the means. Nobody on Earth wants WVU as more than a warm body. The Big 12 doesn't need another FB power. They needed another body. The first domino in all this was the ACC move.

The SEC could have gone to 14 before that. But they weren't going to until that. And SU/Pitt made it happen.

I think we identified the arguments both sides (SU & Pitt/BE) would use in court. SU/Pitt would use the technicality argument, while the Big East would use the "if you didn't leave, this never happens" argument.

Their AD, Oliver Luck is rumored to be 1 of 2 people to replace Neinas the B12 commish.

 

[baggerbob]

The Big East doesn't in any way want to be in court. We can present a good arguement based on BE football 1991-2003, when miami, VT, and BC were in conference that after they left it did irreparable damage to our program. The BE didn't bring in comparable programs and cost us money. In 13 yrs top 25's,Miami-12,VT-9,Syr-7,BC-4,WV-2,Pitt-1 and 2 national titles. The last 8 yrs have been very bad as a league which forced Pitt, Syr,West Virginia to leave.

 

[sutomcat]

[Edited to add a couple of thoughts]

I don't think the Big 12 would have gone to WVU first. I think it's the ends trying to justify the means. Nobody on Earth wants WVU as more than a warm body. The Big 12 doesn't need another FB power. They needed another body. The first domino in all this was the ACC move.

The SEC could have gone to 14 before that. But they weren't going to until that. And SU/Pitt made it happen.

I think we identified the arguments both sides (SU & Pitt/BE) would use in court. SU/Pitt would use the technicality argument, while the Big East would use the "if you didn't leave, this never happens" argument.

You are either insane or incredibly naive. WVU has been trying for years to get out of the BE, tried like hell to get into the SEC, tried like hell to get into the ACC.
Long before SU or Pitt were able to escape.

Every school in the Big East would leave to go into a real BCS conference if given the opportunity. From the day it became a football conference. How many schools need to depart before you figure that out?

You are right about one thing...the Big 12 needed a warm body and WVU was the best they could do. But the reason the Big 12 needed a warm body wasn't because the ACC expanded. It was because the SEC expanded and stole two Big 12 schools. Maybe you should sue them.

 

[007]

I don't think we will see SU formally take any kind of legal action against the BE, regardless of the outcome of WVU. We will play in the BE for the 2012 season and then negotiate an "early" exit to the ACC (July 2013?). By then, the compensatory damages to the BE will be largely mitigated by the addition of the new teams, many of whom will likely be negotiating to begin league play. In that scenario, we will not pay much more than the current exit fee and perhaps maintain at least a thread of good faith with the NBE.

 

[kingottoiii]

I don't think we will see SU formally take any kind of legal action against the BE, regardless of the outcome of WVU. We will play in the BE for the 2012 season and then negotiate an "early" exit to the ACC (July 2013?). By then, the compensatory damages to the BE will be largely mitigated by the addition of the new teams, many of whom will likely be negotiating to begin league play. In that scenario, we will not pay much more than the current exit fee and perhaps maintain at least a thread of good faith with the NBE.

Thats why SU needs to file suit NOW. If we say we are gonna leave for 2012 FB because of WV then you can negotiate and settle for playing 2012 in the BE but 2013 in the ACC without having to pay a bunch of money. SU now has leverage. It would be silly not to use it.

 

[GoSU96]

How is that goofy? We abided by the bylaws and thought that we were playing WV in 2012. Now we have to find a replacement for that game. Which means we likely have to buy a mid major out of one of their OOC games (costs $) and then pay the said team to appear in the Dome to play us (costs more $). WV by leaving early is compensating UL, Cincy, USF, RU, and UConn by paying money to make up for it. However in our situation we get none of that WV money. So either the BE owes SU money from WV's early exit fees (in which SU sues the BE), or WV needs to compensate SU for leaving early (similar to how Baylor threatened to file suit vs Mizzou even though the B12 gave their blessing). WV's early exit is costing SU money and we should be compensated.

SU doesn't get any of the buyout money, where do you get that from?

And where was SU playing WVU again? Oh that's right on the road. SU now has the OPPORTUNITY to schedule an extra home game.

You guys are ridiculous. SU is NOT coming up with $24M to play in the ACC one season earlier than planned. WVU and the BE settling their dispute doesn't change that one bit.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't think we will see SU formally take any kind of legal action against the BE, regardless of the outcome of WVU. We will play in the BE for the 2012 season and then negotiate an "early" exit to the ACC (July 2013?). By then, the compensatory damages to the BE will be largely mitigated by the addition of the new teams, many of whom will likely be negotiating to begin league play. In that scenario, we will not pay much more than the current exit fee and perhaps maintain at least a thread of good faith with the NBE.

'Xactly.

 

[GoSU96]

Thats why SU needs to file suit NOW. If we say we are gonna leave for 2012 FB because of WV then you can negotiate and settle for playing 2012 in the BE but 2013 in the ACC without having to pay a bunch of money. SU now has leverage. It would be silly not to use it.

It has ZERO additional leverage. Where do guys get this stuff from.

 

[kingottoiii]

It has ZERO additional leverage. Where do guys get this stuff from.

Forget it you are too dumb to understand.