Yeah, but wait until next year...

[longislandcuse]

Am I saying anything not true? These guys play a lot of minutes. A lot of them should or could average a double double. Grant with his limited skill set a few years back on this team and those minutes would probably average a 20-20.

I think OB is better than you give him credit for but you're definitely not wrong on the stat-stuffing due to PT.

 

[malpearl31]

Running stats are awful to judge a player. Brissett isn't doing better than expected . He's shooting 38% from 2 and 26% from three. Wouldn't be such a big deal but he's taking shots at volume, he's killing our offense.

Don't know numbers off hand but I'm willing to guess nobody in our history had worse numbers than this with the amount of volume he plays and shoots.

I agree with you that some of the traditional counting stats (points, in particular) don't always give the best info about a player. But Brissett has a 109.0 offensive rating at kenpom.com, his offensive rebounding and ability to get to the free throw line offset his poor shooting percentages somewhat. I would not say that Oshae is "killing our offense" - especially when you consider that if he's not shooting the ball, who is? Do we want more Paschal post-ups or more Moyer dribble-drives?

 

[Knicks411]

I think there were a lot here that saw the fatal flaws of that team, even when undefeated.

Maybe some of the flaws, and i can't use the search function very well, but I think if you were of the opinion that when we were 25-0 we didn't have a legit chance to win the title you held the minority opinion. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

They are ... not good.

Since 92-93, there have been 117 SU players seasons with more than 125 total FG attempts and more than 6 FGA per game. Oshae is dead last at a 34.6 FG %. He's only slightly behind two Cooney seasons, a senior GMac, and a sophomore Hart. They were all better 3-pt shooters, though. Oshae's rebounding to this point is excellent. Brissett's FT % though suggests that he should be or can be a much better 3-pt shooter.

ETA: Brissett's PER (which is a decent stat, but not all-encompassing) ranks second on the team to Chukwu.

Interesting on the PER, I am somewhat surprised.

His shooting percentages are very poor. There's no sugar coating that. The FT% is a good point and one I agree with, you'd think a guy who shoots 79% from the line would do better tha 26% from 3. Additionally, the guy has a super low turnvoer rate, especially considering he drives so much and draws so many fouls. Turnovers is usually a stat that goes under the radar unless the dude has a ton of them. A missed shot, especially for this team, which crushes it on the offensive glass, is much better than a turnover. Still not as good as a made shot though, obviously.

 

[Sherman20]

The ongoing thread, on January 4th no less, regarding the team's makeup next year has spawned this thread from me.

When was the last time you were content with the current make up of the team and were all in on this team finally getting back to the championship? It feels like it's been a while.

2011-2012 was the team I came up with. Every other team I've had slim hopes that got dashed fairly quickly it feels like. Like we weren't quite a complete team.

2012-13 (great start, lots of talent, and beat eventual champion Louisville on their home floor) and 2013-14 (25-0 start, need I say more).

 

[Sherman20]

Last year was tough, but this year while I respect the hustle and grit, we're extremely talent deprived.

I knew it would be a down year but it's not fun to watch Battle playing the ISO game taking double teamed fade aways, Brissett missing so many open shots, and trying to guess which Frank Howard is going to show up. We shouldn't have to worry about Battle and Howard based on their time already in the program, but not only do we have to worry about them, but we have to worry about the surrounding players as well.

This is a very poor team.

This is a very poor post.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Maybe some of the flaws, and i can't use the search function very well, but I think if you were of the opinion that when we were 25-0 we didn't have a legit chance to win the title you held the minority opinion. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.



Interesting on the PER, I am somewhat surprised.

His shooting percentages are very poor. There's no sugar coating that. The FT% is a good point and one I agree with, you'd think a guy who shoots 79% from the line would do better tha 26% from 3. Additionally, the guy has a super low turnvoer rate, especially considering he drives so much and draws so many fouls. Turnovers is usually a stat that goes under the radar unless the dude has a ton of them. A missed shot, especially for this team, which crushes it on the offensive glass, is much better than a turnover. Still not as good as a made shot though, obviously.

This might not be popular, but I think PER us an incredibly flawed stat. Chukwu has the highest PER on the team. That tells me something isn’t right.

I think Win shares and win shares per 40 tell a better story. This is where people didn’t get Lydons value the past two years.

 

[grant]

2012-13 (great start, lots of talent, and beat eventual champion Louisville on their home floor) and 2013-14 (25-0 start, need I say more).

I agree with the 2013-14 team, the 25-0 start was awesome and Ennis's buzzer beater might be my favorite shot of all time. As frustrating as this years team can be, I love the fight they have in them and I have a new favorite player in Marek. Kid is a scrapper and I think he will be a force to be reckoned with in a few years

 

[two3zone]

This is a very poor post.

This is a very poor rebuttal.

 

[Knicks411]

This might not be popular, but I think PER us an incredibly flawed stat. Chukwu has the highest PER on the team. That tells me something isn’t right.

I think Win shares and win shares per 40 tell a better story. This is where people didn’t get Lydons value the past two years.

I look at PER but more just to eye ball guys generally.

This isn't relevant to Chukwu, but PER overvalues usage rate, I remember reading somewhere that as long as you shot higher than like 35% or something, taking more shots would help your PER.

 

[Sherman20]

Yeah, but remember how unpopular that team and certain players were among certain segments of the fan base at various points along the way?

I loved that team. Thankfully I didn’t spend any time on this board back then. are you referring to some people not liking MCW because of bathrobe-gate?

Pre-Big East tourney: it was doom and gloom, we had just scored 40 something points in our regular season finale against Georgetown and the board was beyond depressed.

Post-Big East tourney: we were a s e xy Final Four pick.

Shouldn’t this be a lesson to everyone not get too doom-and-gloom after losses and not too high after wins?

 

[Sherman20]

This is a very poor rebuttal.

A “very poor team” is a height-of-hyperbole observation. It doesn’t need much rebuttal. You’d think you were describing Pitt or some low level MAC team.

 

[pfister1]

Last year was tough, but this year while I respect the hustle and grit, we're extremely talent deprived.

I knew it would be a down year but it's not fun to watch Battle playing the ISO game taking double teamed fade aways, Brissett missing so many open shots, and trying to guess which Frank Howard is going to show up. We shouldn't have to worry about Battle and Howard based on their time already in the program, but not only do we have to worry about them, but we have to worry about the surrounding players as well.

This is a very poor team.

Really glass 1/2 empty view. Going into this season I thought this team was going to truly suck. They have their warts, but they've been pretty competitive in every game. That is more than I was expecting. While I would like to have another NC caliber team I am also able to look at this team and appreciate that it is a lot more competitive than I anticipated.

 

[pfister1]

Am I saying anything not true? These guys play a lot of minutes. A lot of them should or could average a double double. Grant with his limited skill set a few years back on this team and those minutes would probably average a 20-20.

You are missing the point that regardless of what anyone is doing individually this team is 12-3 and collectively is performing much better than most reasonable expectations.

 

[dasher]

This is a very poor rebuttal.

I also disagree with you about OB. He has been excellent on the boards and that has been big for us. I don't think anyone expected he would be this good on the boards. He has been an excellent free throw shooter after a rough start. His numbers on offensive have been what they are. Need them to be better. No question. But because of the lack of other players that can do anything out there, he is yes, given more opportunity and also forced to do more than is his place at this point. He is in reality, a 5 star recruit. Most don't play better.

 

[two3zone]

I also disagree with you about OB. He has been excellent on the boards and that has been big for us. I don't think anyone expected he would be this good on the boards. He has been an excellent free throw shooter after a rough start. His numbers on offensive have been what they are. Need them to be better. No question. But because of the lack of other players that can do anything out there, he is yes, given more opportunity and also forced to do more than is his place at this point. He is in reality, a 5 star recruit. Most don't play better.

Dash, he's not a 5 star.

His rebounding has been solid and his free throws have been great to go along with great athleticism.

Outside of that he hasn't been that good, and his shooting may be the worst in the JB era at his volume.

He'll get better but he is what he is at this point.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

VT be like

 

[OrangeDW]

The ongoing thread, on January 4th no less, regarding the team's makeup next year has spawned this thread from me.

When was the last time you were content with the current make up of the team and were all in on this team finally getting back to the championship? It feels like it's been a while.

2011-2012 was the team I came up with. Every other team I've had slim hopes that got dashed fairly quickly it feels like. Like we weren't quite a complete team.

I still felt good through 2014.

I felt good last year in the preseason too.

 

[dasher]

Dash, he's not a 5 star.

His rebounding has been solid and his free throws have been great to go along with great athleticism.

Outside of that he hasn't been that good, and his shooting may be the worst in the JB era at his volume.

He'll get better but he is what he is at this point.

Yeah, he is 5 star. Not top 10 but the kid is 6'8 and has an excellent handle. As you say, his rebounding has been solid (better than solid) and his free throws have been great to go along with great athleticism. What exactly do you expect from a freshman. Last year, battle was our 4th option. This year this kid is either 2 or 3.

 

[two3zone]

Yeah, he is 5 star. Not top 10 but the kid is 6'8 and has an excellent handle. As you say, his rebounding has been solid (better than solid) and his free throws have been great to go along with great athleticism. What exactly do you expect from a freshman. Last year, battle was our 4th option. This year this kid is either 2 or 3.

I just don't think he's a top 30 freshman in the country which is usually where the 5 stars are.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

VT be like

Noooo.

I just want us to be great again, and everyone else in the country to know it! Is that really too much to ask?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Noooo.

I just want us to be great again, and everyone else in the country to know it! Is that really too much to ask?

No.

And mostly I just wanted to use that image again.

Never gets old.

And when it does, it comes back around.

 

[007]

I just don't think he's a top 30 freshman in the country which is usually where the 5 stars are.

First, I want you to know that I think the majority of the points you make are a lot more insightful than most here realize or give you credit for.

Of course, this is pure conjecture at this point, but I think Brissett will be considered among the best freshman in the ACC by season's end, which will make him among the best in the country. He is already an elite rebounder. His ability to get to the rim and create fouls as a freshman (even with most teams sagging help side D to the lane) is going to make him a match up problem for just about everybody. His shooting numbers are not good, no question. But he is forcing other teams to account for him and that's what sets him apart.

 

[billsin01]

The ongoing thread, on January 4th no less, regarding the team's makeup next year has spawned this thread from me.

When was the last time you were content with the current make up of the team and were all in on this team finally getting back to the championship? It feels like it's been a while.

2011-2012 was the team I came up with. Every other team I've had slim hopes that got dashed fairly quickly it feels like. Like we weren't quite a complete team.

Agree but I’d also say if your bar is ‘national title contender’ that’s pretty damn high — especially when you have the two final fours in that span. But we’ve had trouble fielding a team that seems complete.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Running stats are awful to judge a player. Brissett isn't doing better than expected . He's shooting 38% from 2 and 26% from three. Wouldn't be such a big deal but he's taking shots at volume, he's killing our offense.

Don't know numbers off hand but I'm willing to guess nobody in our history had worse numbers than this with the amount of volume he plays and shoots.

Sorry, but he's getting to the line twice as much as any other player on the team, and is making nearly 80% of his free throws. Sure, his 3 point percentage is not good, but he doesn't take that many, and he hits some at key times. You might have expected him to be this good, but 15 and 10 is outstanding. You're talking Coleman numbers. The kid is one of two reasons we are not absolutely terrible, as some (many?) expected, coming into the season. The other reason is how well Frank has played. I know you disagree with that opinion, too. But the facts speak for themselves. We would be utterly lost if this was only a 1 man team named Tyus Battle. These guys are going to be outstanding next year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Really glass 1/2 empty view. Going into this season I thought this team was going to truly suck. They have their warts, but they've been pretty competitive in every game. That is more than I was expecting. While I would like to have another NC caliber team I am also able to look at this team and appreciate that it is a lot more competitive than I anticipated.

Precisely my view, too.