Your Canadian rotation...

[reedny]

I'm not surprised by Cooney starting since it was my prediction months ago. I just hope he plays well enough to keep it so we have a 3 PT threat. I still think if not for this NCAA thing, Roberson would also start. If not tomorrow, then by mid-December.


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Roberson starting? Where? At the 3 (with CJ there?). At the 4 (with Rak, Grant there?). At the 2? (not happening).

Sure he's got game, but he's a frosh who's late getting qualified and hasn't even practiced (yes, there's time). In a couple months, when he does get in a game, do you see him playing inside in the ACC over Rak and Grant?. Bees, I'm on your wavelength about this kid. But for my money he's a backup 3 all day. Next year he takes over the spot.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not surprised Cooney is starting at least in the summer. He played good against Georgetown in the Big East tournament last year. Not the first or last 1st year player that has struggled here. This team, while highly unproven, has a ton of upside. I have confidence that he will be good this year.
Was watching video on Roberson last night. Really stinks he is going to miss these games. Seems like he can be an extremely skilled all around forward. I think Grant may have more upside, but Roberson comes in more polished.
Also I know everyone gets caught up in who is going to score, etc... Lets not forget last year we probably had the best defensive team we ever had. Can Ennis and Cooney/Gbinije be as good as MCW and Triche up top? Can Coleman get out on the wing? Can he defend the middle? Southerland could be lazy at times, but he was always good as a weak side shot blocker, can Coleman play that spot. Last years team was average offensively, but we never has a collection of defenders like that ever before.

 

[edowd26]

I'm constantly amazed by the people who thought that the G would just step in and start. He couldn't play on a Duke that was not as good as our team last year; a Final Four team to which Trevor Cooney made contributions.

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Wasn't meant as a knock on cooney at all. Gbinje is a good ball handler slasher adept passer decent shooter and is 6'7. I have seen him practice and thought him to be very good. Coronet is just less dimensional. Obviously I root for all cuse players so if hes better than gbinje, I'm happy. And gbinje played on duke 2 years ago not last year.

 

[RF2044]

kind of shocked cooney over gbinje. I take that to mean cooney really is stepping up.

I wouldn't read too much into it. Gbinije has had to run the point [against Ennis] on the second unit in practice, because nobody else could do it. That put Cooney alongside Ennis on the first team.

My expectation is that when the dust settles, Gbinije will start at 2. But hopefully it DOES mean that Cooney has stepped up--I've heard good things about his off-season work, and how that's carried over to these summer practices.

 

[OrangeYaGladi]

Quick random question. Is Nolan Hart a scholarship player this season? And does he travel to Canada?

 

[edowd26]

I wouldn't read too much into it. Gbinije has had to run the point [against Ennis] on the second unit in practice, because nobody else could do it. That put Cooney alongside Ennis on the first team.

My expectation is that when the dust settles, Gbinije will start at 2. But hopefully it DOES mean that Cooney has stepped up--I've heard good things about his off-season work, and how that's carried over to these summer practices.

If we're good at the 2 we'll be back to the ff.

 

[Orangezoo]

so im taking this rotation to also indicate that buss is not ready to play PG and that he has a ways to go to learn the zone. Additionally BJ as well. Cooney is no surprise- he is a good defender(jb is keen on) and is the most experienced guard on the team. For right now it makes sense. Although its hard not to be in mid-season form as fans speculating about a late summer exhibition series ..

 

[SBU72]

3) Our extraordinary 6th man for the 2013-14 season is out there somewhere. Everything seems to point to Grant being that guy this year, but could it be Mike G? Even if TC has worked hard enough to prove himself worthy of the starting job, maybe JB is molding Gbinije to be our game-changer off the bench for this year.
Regardless, we have some solid options at guard even if there are questions to be answered from each of them on the floor. My attention though will be on Coleman. He's the one we truly need to step up (yes, even more so than Ennis in my view). If he's ready to go all Hulk mode, and has figured out how to anchor the D, then we will have an amazing year. Coleman SMASH!

View attachment 4608

Could Grant/Gbinije be the Joseph/Jardine from 2009-10 season? (G-G rather than the J-J?) The two of them averaged 25 m/g each, with 10 ppg. A lot of other similariteis to that team. A 4/5 starting combow with the 4 getting a lot of time at the 5. A dynamite SG who was the star of the team before moving on to the NBA. A back court that started a highly touted freshmen at pg. And this years team appears to be even deeper than that one

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In short, we're going with our most experienced player at every position for now.

Except for Keita. Because Coleman looks like an ogre.

 

[MCC]

Roberson starting? Where? At the 3 (with CJ there?). At the 4 (with Rak, Grant there?). At the 2? (not happening).

Sure he's got game, but he's a frosh who's late getting qualified and hasn't even practiced (yes, there's time). In a couple months, when he does get in a game, do you see him playing inside in the ACC over Rak and Grant?. Bees, I'm on your wavelength about this kid. But for my money he's a backup 3 all day. Next year he takes over the spot.

My opinion: based on what film I've seen and comments from staff buried on the board and other sites, I think he projects as a 4. I think his game is miles ahead of Rak's: he's far more polished offensively and could be a rebounding machine. Roberson's motor is truly impressive. He has great instincts and like CJ seems to know where rebounds are headed and where loose balls will end up. Last, I think his athleticism will exceed expectations.

Clearly he won't be the shot blocker Rak is, but he brings so much more to the table on offense and the boards. I suspect he'll be a tenacious defender. I won't posit how many minutes he gets total, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him start at the 4 before end of 2013.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Roberson looks awesome on tape, but I don't see him starting at all this year. Rak and Coleman will start regardless. I don't see him getting off the bench before Grant, and CJ will never leave the court. If he's available he will be the 6th frontcourt player. That is how deep we are. Don't forget no matter how good you are offensively as a freshmen(Dion), it doesn't mean you are guaranteed to play. You must play defense as well.

 

[longislandcuse]

The more I think about this lineup it makes sense and is the best way to utilize the talent we have. I just hope we don't play the token starter game all year long, that drives me crazy.

Gbinje seems to be the most versatile guard out of the 3 that play so it would make sense he would come off the bench for our guards with Ennis being strictly a pg and Cooney strictly a 2g.

Grant is the most versatile forward we have and is backing up Rak who is a PF/C and CJ who is a SF, too small to play PF. Keita is obviously backup C.

My only question is where does Roberson fit in? By all accounts he has way too much talent to keep off the court.

 

[orangefan13]

I agree Roberson is going to play when he gets here.

I am curious how he put up his 51 points anyone know? Thats 51 points I imagine something like 3-4 threes, 8-9 buckets in the post and 25 points off of fast breaks, putbacks and freethrows.

I have BJ penciled in the full time rotation I think he has the potential to be our best player since Carmelo in the longrun. I don't see this group as typical freshmen at all. For what its worth I think Freshmen Patterson will be better then Freshmen Triche was.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Given these last few years, who starts is meaningless. We basically have all the pieces this year to do very, very well and I'm sure Coach B will figure out what lineup to use and when.

Guard:
steady ball handler/facilitator (yes, he will be) Ennis
3 point specialist: Cooney
Super sub: Gbinije
Defensive stalwart: Patterson

Forward:
mid range/outside shot/rebounder: CJ
Super Sub/Slasher/rebounder: Grant
Insane forward depth/contributor night in and night out: Roberson

Center:
Low post defensive specialist: Rak
Low Post Bruiser/scoring threat: Coleman
Super Sub: Keita

I know Rak or Coleman will likely start at forward, but it won't last once grant comes in and plays huge minutes. Also...still not sure where to put BJ. Is he a forward or guard? Either way, he provides unreal depth and size.

Yet again...our second team would be ranked in the top 25.
Gbinije
Patterson
Roberson
Grant
Keita

 

[Garbs]

I'm constantly amazed by the people who thought that the G would just step in and start. He couldn't play on a Duke that was not as good as our team last year; a Final Four team to which Trevor Cooney made contributions.

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well

1) G wasn't on Duke last year so that is why he couldn't play on their team
2) If you switched Cooney and G on last years team they would have both made contributions aka the only reserve guard

but I do agree with the point you are trying to make which is there is no reason to put G ahead of Cooney before they even see any court time this year

 

[Sgt Cuse]

My opinion: based on what film I've seen and comments from staff buried on the board and other sites, I think he projects as a 4. I think his game is miles ahead of Rak's: he's far more polished offensively and could be a rebounding machine. Roberson's motor is truly impressive. He has great instincts and like CJ seems to know where rebounds are headed and where loose balls will end up. Last, I think his athleticism will exceed expectations.

Clearly he won't be the shot blocker Rak is, but he brings so much more to the table on offense and the boards. I suspect he'll be a tenacious defender. I won't posit how many minutes he gets total, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him start at the 4 before end of 2013.

Roberson's starting would surprise the hell out of me. How come there is no Grant in your analysis? Grant has the motor, has the instincts, and is defensively impressive already. Both Rak and Grant are veterans who have paid some dues. Roberson is a frosh, a late to arrive, non-McD frosh.

Normally, JB will start the upperclassman. We see Cooney ahead of MG, Rak ahead of Grant.
Aside from the technicality of the starter term, I also don't see Roberson in at crunch time (2 min left in a close Duke game). I think that role, for the 4, will go to Grant.

You are also not considering long term team chemistry. It seems starting Roberson would have the affect of reducing the role of BMK and Rak, because they would now be splitting 3 ways the center minutes. If you were JB why would you reduce the roles of the dues paying veterans for a late arriving frosh of similar talent? It doesn't make sense to me, and I would be extremely surprised if it happened.

 

[IthacaMatt]

pretty much expected

Why would we play less than all of them? It's preseason.

 

[reedny]

My opinion: based on what film I've seen and comments from staff buried on the board and other sites, I think he projects as a 4. I think his game is miles ahead of Rak's: he's far more polished offensively and could be a rebounding machine. Roberson's motor is truly impressive. He has great instincts and like CJ seems to know where rebounds are headed and where loose balls will end up. Last, I think his athleticism will exceed expectations.

Clearly he won't be the shot blocker Rak is, but he brings so much more to the table on offense and the boards. I suspect he'll be a tenacious defender. I won't posit how many minutes he gets total, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him start at the 4 before end of 2013.

Ok, we disagree here. You keep pointing out that he's talented .. we know that. That doesn't mean that, at 6'7/6-8 and 190-200 pounds, he "starts" at the PF spot over two bigger and much more experienced players. Hell, we have guards (MG, BJ) that could play PF in a pinch.

 

[MCC]

Roberson's starting would surprise the hell out of me. How come there is no Grant in your analysis? Grant has the motor, has the instincts, and is defensively impressive already. Both Rak and Grant are veterans who have paid some dues. Roberson is a frosh, a late to arrive, non-McD frosh.

Normally, JB will start the upperclassman. We see Cooney ahead of MG, Rak ahead of Grant.
Aside from the technicality of the starter term, I also don't see Roberson in at crunch time (2 min left in a close Duke game). I think that role, for the 4, will go to Grant.

You are also not considering long term team chemistry. It seems starting Roberson would have the affect of reducing the role of BMK and Rak, because they would now be splitting 3 ways the center minutes. If you were JB why would you reduce the roles of the dues paying veterans for a late arriving frosh of similar talent? It doesn't make sense to me, and I would be extremely surprised if it happened.

I think Grant's role might be similar to Dion's but at the 4. I do think the upperclassmen will see the bulk of the minutes. This is just such an odd team in terms of depth that I wouldn't be surprised to see some unusual rotations. Plus I think Roberson is much better than we (collectively) think - I could be totally wrong here and as long as the team makes another FF run I'll be happy if proven so.

 

[MCC]

Ok, we disagree here. You keep pointing out that he's talented .. we know that. That doesn't mean that, at 6'7/6-8 and 190-200 pounds, he sees the light of day at PF. Hell, MG, BJ and CJ -- can all play PF in a pinch. That's a long way from Roberson starting over Rak/JG against high majors. No way.

Oh, fair enough - I'm not trying to take a definitive position on Roberson starting. I do think he slots in at the 4 best. In the 2-3 that means he plays the back line; not sure if anyone really gets assigned as the "4" there although teams could overload on that side with size if they perceive Roberson is undersized. I do think he'd be a nightmare cover for another team's 4 - far too quick and versatile. I'm speculating, but I suspect he's stronger and tougher than most 3's which could yield a similar matchup issue if defended by the opposing 3.

I do think it's fair to ask what has Rak really brought against high major 4's... other than size and shot blocking? I think Tyler's all around game might make him an attractive option.

 

[reedny]

Oh, fair enough - I'm not trying to take a definitive position on Roberson starting. I do think he slots in at the 4 best. In the 2-3 that means he plays the back line; not sure if anyone really gets assigned as the "4" there although teams could overload on that side with size if they perceive Roberson is undersized. I do think he'd be a nightmare cover for another team's 4 - far too quick and versatile. I'm speculating, but I suspect he's stronger and tougher than most 3's which could yield a similar matchup issue if defended by the opposing 3.

I do think it's fair to ask what has Rak really brought against high major 4's... other than size and shot blocking? I think Tyler's all around game might make him an attractive option.

All good questions and points. In the zone, the 3 and 4 both play the wings... covering the space between the guards and the baseline. When the ball goes inside, they pinch in .. when it goes outside, they close out on the shooter. So from that standpoint, Roberson (at the 3) on one side wouldn't seem that much different than Rak/Grant at the "4" on the other side.

The problem is, you need a big on either side of the rim to rebound -- that's why mobile (but tall) players like Rak and Grant can play the 4. When you put Roberson in as the second big (playing opposite another, smaller 3), he'd get swallowed up. You need 2 bigs inside to have a chance on the glass. This is especially true in the zone, where guys generally don't have a man they're assigned to box out. So if you have one big (say Coleman or Keita) and the other side is a 6'7 kid who's 190 pounds... you have a problem. That's why you often see Rak/Grant playing next to Keita/Coleman. Then the 3 (CJ or Roberson) doesn't have to pound with the bigs inside.

As far as Rak/Grant getting pushed around ... exactly my point (it would be even worse with Roberson). The 4 (as a second big) has to be big enough to rebound on the weak side (opposite the center), but mobile enough to get out on shooters.

 

[br801]

"Only real downside was he didn't shoot well." Why would you expect a shooting guard to be able to shoot? He shot 30% from the floor and 20% from 3. Since he is a shooting guard I guess its no big deal?

I think the point was that Cooney showed a more complete game than most expected and was able to grasp the zone pretty effectively from the start. I'll withhold judgement on his shooting until I see what happens when he plays regular and significant minutes, something we have yet to see.

 

[MCC]

All good questions and points. In the zone, the 3 and 4 both play the wings... covering the space between the guards and the baseline. When the ball goes inside, they pinch in .. when it goes outside, they close out on the shooter. So from that standpoint, Roberson (at the 3) on one side wouldn't seem that much different than Rak/Grant at the "4" on the other side.

The problem is, you need a big on either side of the rim to rebound -- that's why mobile (but tall) players like Rak and Grant can play the 4. When you put Roberson in as the second big (playing opposite another, smaller 3), he'd get swallowed up. You need 2 bigs inside to have a chance on the glass. This is especially true in the zone, where guys generally don't have a man they're assigned to box out. So if you have one big (say Coleman or Keita) and the other side is a 6'7 kid who's 190 pounds... you have a problem. That's why you often see Rak/Grant playing next to Keita/Coleman. Then the 3 (CJ or Roberson) doesn't have to pound with the bigs inside.

As far as Rak/Grant getting pushed around ... exactly my point (it would be even worse with Roberson). The 4 (as a second big) has to be big enough to rebound on the weak side (opposite the center), but mobile enough to get out on shooters.

Fair points - interesting however that CJ was our leading rebounder last year. I think depending on the opposition's lineup you could absolutely get away with CJ and Roberson in as the forwards. DC2 - if he gets the minutes - should be our best rebounder since Hak / Carmelo. Grant intrigues me the most - if he shows the development we expect, then I concur that he's the de facto 4 in our lineup - he could board, score and defend collectively at a near-CJ level.

I'll add that size, while important, isn't everything for boards - those really tenacious guys (e.g. everyone on Marquette for the past 277 years) always seem to outrebound us by positioning themselves well and going after the ball. I think Roberson's motor and "smarts" may ameliorate some of that and could prove more valuable than pure size.

 

[reedny]

Fair points - interesting however that CJ was our leading rebounder last year. I think depending on the opposition's lineup you could absolutely get away with CJ and Roberson in as the forwards. DC2 - if he gets the minutes - should be our best rebounder since Hak / Carmelo. Grant intrigues me the most - if he shows the development we expect, then I concur that he's the de facto 4 in our lineup - he could board, score and defend collectively at a near-CJ level.

Well, CJ's a stud ... and (IMHO) a stretch 3. He's strong enough, even at 6'8 215-220, to play the 4 against most teams ... but when we play against big front lines (Adams and Zanna, for example) - I think you would agree that it's nice to have Rak/Grant playing next to our center to help on the glass.

It isn't going to get any easier in the ACC. UNC will bring JMM (6'9 230). They have Hubert, Jones. Duke has (another) 7' Plumlee and big forwards. I don't think JB is going to start Roberson at PF in that game to rebound against Jabari Parker (or Hairston or Murphy). You get the idea.

 

[orangefan13]

If Cooney, BJ, Gbinije, and Roberson are 7-8ppg type of players per 15 minutes then this team will have the potential to run motion offense all game. We would tire opponents out so fast they will have no chioice but to zone us.

Then when Grant CJ Cooney and whoever start Raining 3's they will have no choice but to be dumbfounded, make excuses and feel like forfeiting.

We lost MCW's second gear but we added Ennis, Roberson, Gbinije, more minutes for Grants, and Rons will be ahead of Triches I think. This team is going to look like they got shot out of a cannon.