Zone Exclusivity

[tbonezone]

when you only got one pitch you are messed when the other team starts sitting on it. i just don't get the mindset of the crowd who opposes a changeup when it's called for. i realise i'm shouting into the wind as long as JB is coach. but that doesn't make it rational. other successful teams do it. but we can't cuz of JB.

 

[Brooky03]

when you only got one pitch you are messed when the other team starts sitting on it. i just don't get the mindset of the crowd who opposes a changeup when it's called for. i realise i'm shouting into the wind as long as JB is coach. but that doesn't make it rational. other successful teams do it. but we can't cuz of JB.

If you're a knuckleball pitcher and your other pitch is an 84mph fastball, I wouldn't throw that fastball no matter what. Sure, you could surprise them once. Do it again and it'll be 400ft behind you.

Just look at m2m teams that switch to zone. 80% of the time they start getting killed and go back to man. I pray to God that Duke zones us, even for a little bit.

 

[wiCuse]

The zone has not been the issue at all in ACC play. I'm not against a secondary defensive or press, but our issues have all been on offense since we've joined the ACC.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The zone has not been the issue at all in ACC play. I'm not against a secondary defensive or press, but our issues have all been on offense since we've joined the ACC.

Offense is clearly a problem. Defense is clearly a problem lately. Giving up way too may open looks. Perimeter D is really bad. That's a fact, sir.

 

[HOFCeluck]

If you're a knuckleball pitcher and your other pitch is an 84mph fastball, I wouldn't throw that fastball no matter what. Sure, you could surprise them once. Do it again and it'll be 400ft behind you.

Just look at m2m teams that switch to zone. 80% of the time they start getting killed and go back to man. I pray to God that Duke zones us, even for a little bit.

Id like to see that 80 percent baked up.

Switching defenses helped us beat Pitt in 2003, and KU in 2008. Kansas used a triangle and two on Carolina in 2012, and it got them to the final four.

 

[longislandcuse]

The zone has not been the issue at all in ACC play. I'm not against a secondary defensive or press, but our issues have all been on offense since we've joined the ACC.

The ACC actually has shooters. Aside from the upper echelon programs, they don't have the athletes or ruggedness the Big East had, but every team has shooters and good coaching.

It's a totally different style and side note: I'm sick of seeing Ville and Pitt struggle to break 40 against everyone except us.

 

[Alsacs]

There are three camps. Camp one who hate JB and want to rip him thru the zone. Camp two people who love JB but are frustrated with his refusal to adapt on the fly and will live and die by the zone. Camp three are the how many wins do you have crowd who will defend JB no matter if the point is legitimate.

I consider myself camp two and hate how the camp one people try to pretend they are in camp two when they just want to rip JB.

Our defense in the last 5 minutes yesterday was atrocious. If that has to do with fatigue JB should use timeouts throughout the second to give energy late. We couldn't stop Pitt or rebound at all the last 5 minutes.
Pretty much every ACC team except VPI game 1, Georgia Tech, Florida state, Boston college have shredded the zone on offense.

We have just had better play on offense from G, Rak and Cooney to win games.

 

[tbonezone]

my question would be why is your fastball only 84 mph? don't practice it ?
secondly your measly 84 fastball still makes your money pitch knuckleball more effective.it's the element of surprise. like i said. don't get why others don't get it.

 

[wiCuse]

Offense is clearly a problem. Defense is clearly a problem lately. Giving up way too may open looks. Perimeter D is really bad. That's a fact, sir.

I'm looking at our defense since the start of ACC play last season. You cannot use anything since CMAC was injured. Our depth does not allow us to play aggressive. Check our stats from last season and up until CMAC went out. That's a fact, sir.

 

[wiCuse]

The ACC actually has shooters. Aside from the upper echelon programs, they don't have the athletes or ruggedness the Big East had, but every team has shooters and good coaching.

It's a totally different style and side note: I'm sick of seeing Ville and Pitt struggle to break 40 against everyone except us.

I don't disagree that the shooting is better in the ACC. However, since Christmas cannot get in foul trouble you might have noticed that he allows opponents to catch the ball deeper and when we collapse you have wide open shooters. Christmas never allowed this before CMAC was injured.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'm looking at our defense since the start of ACC play last season. You cannot use anything since CMAC was injured. Our depth does not allow us to play aggressive. Check our stats from last season and up until CMAC went out. That's a fact, sir.

So anytime a team has injuries its just eh, whatever, it is what it is?

 

[longislandcuse]

I don't disagree that the shooting is better in the ACC. However, since Christmas cannot get in foul trouble you might have noticed that he allows opponents to catch the ball deeper and when we collapse you have wide open shooters. Christmas never allowed this before CMAC was injured.

True, which is why this year is clearly a ****show. I'd rather we tried something than just hoping teams miss but apparently that's our strategy to close out the season. This thread is more about our defensive ideology moving forward after this year.

 

[Scotch]

Were getting pulverized by 3 pters last seven games

9-25
8-20
10-29
10-29
9-16
9-18
7-22

Pitt has worst % at .318. Any time that we want to start guarding the 3 pt line would be great.

Jb should know theres a difference between a contested 3 and an open 3 that a guy can step into.

3 pt defense hasn't been great this year, but we've been in the top 10 in 3-point defensive efficiency for about the past 6 years (check KenPom). What's the variable this year? Young, inexperienced players playing a LOT of minutes. If Grant and Ennis came back we'd be in the top 10 again. The zone is the least of my worries about the future of the program. It's been a huge asset for us.

 

[Brooky03]

Id like to see that 80 percent baked up.

Switching defenses helped us beat Pitt in 2003, and KU in 2008. Kansas used a triangle and two on Carolina in 2012, and it got them to the final four.

That's why I left room for the 20% haha.

 

[Brooky03]

3 pt defense hasn't been great this year, but we've been in the top 10 in 3-point defensive efficiency for about the past 6 years (check KenPom). What's the variable this year? Young, inexperienced players playing a LOT of minutes. If Grant and Ennis came back we'd be in the top 10 again. The zone is the least of my worries about the future of the program. It's been a huge asset for us.

Freakin' THIS^^^

How many teams have won championships playing m2m and only m2m? 30? 40? Those teams must have been fools that got lucky.

Or does this not apply, because the zone isn't a real defense so of course you have to switch to m2m occassionally? If a team is beating the zone, they must have 'figured it out.' If they beat m2m, they didn't 'figure it out', they just played better than the defense. Why can't that be the case for us? Face it, we just don't have great personnel this season (for either type of defense).

 

[tbonezone]

it's mid february. time to let go of the ennis /grant excuses. deal with reality.

 

[wiCuse]

True, which is why this year is clearly a ****show. I'd rather we tried something than just hoping teams miss but apparently that's our strategy to close out the season. This thread is more about our defensive ideology moving forward after this year.

That is what I'm trying to get across. When we have more than 6 guys that can play our zone is fine and borderline great. To quote your "So anytime a team has injuries its just eh, whatever, it is what it is?" Yes, you basically have to play zone exclusively with only 6 guys. Seems fairly obvious.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

Ah yes, the yearly early February post where someone criticizes the zone only defense after some nobody hits a bunch of threes. The sun will still rise in the east tomorrow and the next game SU will still play all zone.

 

[Brooky03]

it's mid february. time to let go of the ennis /grant excuses. deal with reality.

I don't think they were brought up as an excuse. They were brought up to illustrate that we'd have a great defense if we had the players we expected/hoped to have return. Meaning, the personnel is the problem, not the defense.

That's not what an excuse is.

 

[tbonezone]

ok. so zone only strategy worked great for us last year in the tourneys. with all that nba personnel...
should i laugh or cry ?

 

[Brooky03]

ok. so zone only strategy worked great for us last year in the tourneys. with all that nba personnel...

yes, generally the zone only strategy works out pretty well for us. Unless you mean losing at any point in the NCAAT indicates that the strategy is poor.

 

[longislandcuse]

yes, generally the zone only strategy works out pretty well for us. Unless you mean losing at any point in the NCAAT indicates that the strategy is poor.

We historically underperform in the tournament. I don't think we all want to get into this discussion lol.

 

[tbonezone]

well losing early in the ncaat and acc t yes. fail.

 

[Brooky03]

We historically underperform in the tournament. I don't think we all want to get into this discussion lol.

Debatable. We've had 3 years in which we've underperformed due to injury or supsension. Can't blame that on anything other than crappy circumstances. The other years, we've typically never done worse than losing one round earlier than expected, if that.

Also, defense is rarely the problem. m2m wouldn't have helped us shoot better than 38% from the field and 0-10 from 3pt range against Dayton. Yeah, I'm aware they shot 43% from deep, but they only managed 55 points and shot terribly inside the arc. That's a good defensive performance, in my book.

 

[tbonezone]

" Can't blame that on anything other than crappy circumstances."

or teams outscoring us.