Zone in College Hoops - The Athletic

[Fly Rodder]

With Jim Boeheim retired, can zone defense still work in college basketball?

New Syracuse coach Adrian Autry will likely ditch Boeheim's famed 2-3 zone. Around the country, few teams are playing that defense anymore.

theathletic.com

So when Boeheim is asked what defense would he run if he had to start a new program in 2023, his answer may come as a surprise.

“Man-to-man,” he says before the question is even finished being asked. “Just too many good shooters. Too many coaches that know how to attack zones. I would try to play almost 90 percent man, but I’d like to have a good enough zone to play 10-20 percent.”

ETA: sutomcat had it in the Orangeyes Daily articles, first.

 

[Cuse181]

With Jim Boeheim retired, can zone defense still work in college basketball?

New Syracuse coach Adrian Autry will likely ditch Boeheim's famed 2-3 zone. Around the country, few teams are playing that defense anymore.

theathletic.com

JB says things, my honest assumption? Thats reds plan and he doesn't want to chit on it.

 

[Orangezoo]

With Jim Boeheim retired, can zone defense still work in college basketball?

New Syracuse coach Adrian Autry will likely ditch Boeheim's famed 2-3 zone. Around the country, few teams are playing that defense anymore.

theathletic.com

Where are the zone stalwarts?? Lol now even the HOFr is saying it...

For the millionth time the analytics on true shooting and use of the 3pt shot have all clearly outlined that it's not effective as a primary defense anymore at this level.

Also for those pointing to Miami's defense in the NBA.. it's not what they run the majority of the time. Their playoff run is driven by 3pt shooting being 39 pct in playoffs vs 34 in reg season not playing zone.

I'm sure some will still argue for it though as a good primary D.

 

[RF2044]

Where are the JB/zone stalwarts?? Lol now even the HOFr is saying it...

He can finally admit it now.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's a really good article that gets into zone strategies and how different teams play, like Merrimack and Baylor ... and Autry says he will still employ some zone, but it will be different.

Recommend to everyone with a subscription.

 

[Orangezoo]

It's a really good article that gets into zone strategies and how different teams play, like Merrimack and Baylor ... and Autry says he will still employ some zone, but it will be different.

Recommend to everyone with a subscription.

Yep it's a good read all though not all that original as several other articles like the breakdown a couple years ago from I believe on3 have covered most of the same points. Along with an article on Mizzous use of zone.

Also the Merrimack breakdown is interesting but the key is with rushing out to run teams off the 3pt line you are just simply over rotating and then giving up pts on the offensive boards anyway if there is a miss. They were still 101 in adjdef last year for example and got blasted by good teams in their zone each of the years they played it.

 

[Orangezoo]

JB says things, my honest assumption? Thats reds plan and he doesn't want to chit on it.

I think that's a stretch with how many quotes he gave. He gave reasoning that aligns with what numbers and other zone coaches say besides Merrimack..

 

[grepal]

JB says things, my honest assumption? Thats reds plan and he doesn't want to chit on it.

JB has always said what is on his mind, I don't think mincing words and saying something to placate someone are characteristics of the man. While he clung to it steadfastly to the dismay of many, he thought it gave SU the best chance to win. In spite of the last several years not living up to the legacy of the prior 40 or so years we will be very lucky if we ever get a coach as successful, brilliant, passionate about SU and loyal as Coach Boeheim. I wish Red all the success and luck in the world. I hope he creates a great legacy for himself. It will be very difficult for me to think of SU hoops and not remember JAB for all of the great and wonderful things he did for SU, for my entertainment and for the Syracuse community. I hope someone reads this to him if he does not read it himself. I will always be grateful.

 

[orangepassion]

What the...Now he says it?
I would have loved for us to use the zone like the Miami Heat-throwing it in to throw the other team off. It has been a real weapon at times, but wore out its use as a 100% Defense.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

It was a great read. At the high-major level, zone can't work as a primary defense anymore. But if you're going to throw one out as a change, it has to involve wrinkles like Merrimack's and the players have to anticipate where the ball is going and communicate instead of reacting and getting caught chasing.

 

[Cuse181]

JB has always said what is on his mind, I don't think mincing words and saying something to placate someone are characteristics of the man. While he clung to it steadfastly to the dismay of many, he thought it gave SU the best chance to win. In spite of the last several years not living up to the legacy of the prior 40 or so years we will be very lucky if we ever get a coach as successful, brilliant, passionate about SU and loyal as Coach Boeheim. I wish Red all the success and luck in the world. I hope he creates a great legacy for himself. It will be very difficult for me to think of SU hoops and not remember JAB for all of the great and wonderful things he did for SU, for my entertainment and for the Syracuse community. I hope someone reads this to him if he does not read it himself. I will always be grateful.

might not be characteristics of the man, but they might be requirements of his "position"

 

[Newhouser]

He obviously knew it wasn't working so the question becomes why stubbornly stick to it - obviously covering for lack of speed and athleticism on the Buddy, Jimmy, Cole team but this year.....

 

[Col. Bleep]

It's a really good article that gets into zone strategies and how different teams play, like Merrimack and Baylor ... and Autry says he will still employ some zone, but it will be different.

Recommend to everyone with a subscription.

Now Boeheim says that?
Hmmm...maybe he learned something from the Colgate embarrassments.

But Red has it right.
The zone can be an efective alternative to take a team out of its rhythm for a few possessions...or at least until they learn to beat it.

 

[baggerbob]

He obviously knew it wasn't working so the question becomes why stubbornly stick to it - obviously covering for lack of speed and athleticism on the Buddy, Jimmy, Cole team but this year...

Because in his later years, he wasn't up to recruiting the players he needed to play the way he wanted to play.

 

[upperdeck]

It was a great read. At the high-major level, zone can't work as a primary defense anymore. But if you're going to throw one out as a change, it has to involve wrinkles like Merrimack's and the players have to anticipate where the ball is going and communicate instead of reacting and getting caught chasing.

zone has always been about anticipating the pass. We had way too many chasing plays and teams that would make that 3-4-5th pass would beat it.

 

[Mattydvc]

One good way to read the athletic without a subscription is to open the article and before scrolling hit Ctrl+P

you can then save the article as a PDF. it isn't perfect but you'll get all the good stuff

 

[CardiacCuse]

He can finally admit it now.

well it confirms my suspicions...he got to the point where he had a written in stone way and a system...that could still be employed but not really adjusted or altered much...which, for competition's sake, just isn't sustainable.

he didnt lose his ability to analyze a game or to understand strategy etc...just kinda wasnt able to make the necessary adjustments and do the heavy lifting necessary to stay competitive at the end...hence the coaching change.

i wondered for the last few seasons why he wouldnt just switch the system and make adjustments...I suppose the simplest answer is true: he couldn't. so he didn;t.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Anyone else notice the way Autry talks about playing zone seems to depend on who he's talking to? If it's local media, it's like he feels obligated to say zone will still be an important part of the system, but if he's talking to someone national it's more "we're mostly ditching it, but we have the athletes to run it properly if we feel like we need to."

 

[grepal]

What the...Now he says it?
I would have loved for us to use the zone like the Miami Heat-throwing it in to throw the other team off. It has been a real weapon at times, but wore out its use as a 100% Defense.

Have you watched college hoops long enough to remember er Lou Carnasecca using it and calling it the Bush. That was short for ambush. Those great years in the Big East. So many great games and colorful coaches. Man, it was fun!

 

[OrangeDW]

well it confirms my suspicions...he got to the point where he had a written in stone way and a system...that could still be employed but not really adjusted or altered much...which, for competition's sake, just isn't sustainable.

he didnt lose his ability to analyze a game or to understand strategy etc...just kinda wasnt able to make the necessary adjustments and do the heavy lifting necessary to stay competitive at the end...hence the coaching change.

i wondered for the last few seasons why he wouldnt just switch the system and make adjustments...I suppose the simplest answer is true: he couldn't. so he didn;t.

I think it’s because a few of the players he recruited and “had” to play heavy minutes wouldve stunk in man even more than they did in the zone.

 

[chuck]

Where are the zone stalwarts?? Lol now even the HOFr is saying it...

For the millionth time the analytics on true shooting and use of the 3pt shot have all clearly outlined that it's not effective as a primary defense anymore at this level.

Also for those pointing to Miami's defense in the NBA.. it's not what they run the majority of the time. Their playoff run is driven by 3pt shooting being 39 pct in playoffs vs 34 in reg season not playing zone.

I'm sure some will still argue for it though as a good primary D.

Efg% is way more important and accurate that ts% and Miami and there zone defense is what got them to the finals with there defense packing the paint and forcing teams to take lower possession 3 point shots. I know boeheims is old and everyone hates him blah blah blah but why throw pot shots at our HOF coach and man who bled ORANGE sweat and tears for the last half century here to put our favorite team on the map.

 

[OrangeDW]

Efg% is way more important and accurate that ts% and Miami and there zone defense is what got them to the finals with there defense packing the paint and forcing teams to take lower possession 3 point shots. I know boeheims is old and everyone hates him blah blah blah but why throw pot shots at our HOF coach and man who bled ORANGE sweat and tears for the last half century here to put our favorite team on the map.

NOBODY hates him(except maybe tbone), I think many were frustrated that we seemingly punted on really trying to win for half a decade. And now him saying this…lol.

Love the guy, but it just went on way too long. Can’t wait for the season.

 

[Sherman20]

I don’t see how Merrimack’s zone is that different from ours. Our center often does close out and match up with the player that goes to the middle. JB would adjust based on who they put in the middle. The difference with Merrimack is that we didn’t have the personnel in recent years to run people off the 3 point line in a high major level. They’re a low major so they’re not going against elite athletes.

Anyhow, some really interesting nuggets in that article, including this:
But the Heat provide some hope that it’s possible to not just play two kinds of defenses well but to play a zone against one of the best shooting teams in the world. The Celtics ranked second in the NBA in 3-pointers made this past season, and the zone worked against them even when they had five shooters on the floor.

Gallo has re-watched the Heat’s zone possessions this postseason and felt even more empowered that the defense can work in today’s game if the activity level is there. He says most coaches stay away from zone because they think it’s hard to determine where the breakdown occurred. In man-to-man, there’s always someone to blame. Gallo believes it’s the same in a zone. It’s not hard for him to grade out his players.

“(The zone) is holding our guys accountable for their position,” he says.

If Gallo gets a job at a bigger school, he says he’ll stick with the zone. Pitino barely played any zone at Iona because he says the center is the middle of the wheel and directs everyone, and he didn’t have a player in that spot who could handle that responsibility. This season at St. John’s, he’ll have an old team capable of the communication it takes. His matchup zone will make a return.

[Pitino is an example of a great coach who adjusts to his personnel and what they can and can’t do.]

 

[Orangezoo]

Efg% is way more important and accurate that ts% and Miami and there zone defense is what got them to the finals with there defense packing the paint and forcing teams to take lower possession 3 point shots. I know boeheims is old and everyone hates him blah blah blah but why throw pot shots at our HOF coach and man who bled ORANGE sweat and tears for the last half century here to put our favorite team on the map.

Miami is shooting 39 pct from 3 this post season. They shot 34.4 pct all season. Their 3 pt shooting is why they are in the finals. Their defense has been the same as it has all season- the difference is their shooting. Also they only play it on 15 pct of their possessions. So a coach that plays it on 90 plus pct getting excited about it being used 15 pct of the time...

Nice job misrepresenting my point. I've posted probably 20 plus times the analytics around why the zone in college is not effective as a base defense anymore. As a change of pace yes. As a primary defense - no. You can find the many threads on this. It's not an attack on JB for the 1000th time either. Game has changed- as JB himself said it in the article. That's the point and he is correct. Sheesh.

 

[Orangezoo]

I don’t see how Merrimack’s zone is that different from ours. Our center often does close out and match up with the player that goes to the middle. JB would adjust based on who they put in the middle. The difference with Merrimack is that we didn’t have the personnel in recent years to run people off the 3 point line in a high major level. They’re a low major so they’re not going against elite athletes.

Anyhow, some really interesting nuggets in that article, including this:
But the Heat provide some hope that it’s possible to not just play two kinds of defenses well but to play a zone against one of the best shooting teams in the world. The Celtics ranked second in the NBA in 3-pointers made this past season, and the zone worked against them even when they had five shooters on the floor.

Gallo has re-watched the Heat’s zone possessions this postseason and felt even more empowered that the defense can work in today’s game if the activity level is there. He says most coaches stay away from zone because they think it’s hard to determine where the breakdown occurred. In man-to-man, there’s always someone to blame. Gallo believes it’s the same in a zone. It’s not hard for him to grade out his players.

“(The zone) is holding our guys accountable for their position,” he says.

If Gallo gets a job at a bigger school, he says he’ll stick with the zone. Pitino barely played any zone at Iona because he says the center is the middle of the wheel and directs everyone, and he didn’t have a player in that spot who could handle that responsibility. This season at St. John’s, he’ll have an old team capable of the communication it takes. His matchup zone will make a return.

[Pitino is an example of a great coach who adjusts to his personnel and what they can and can’t do.]

Multiple defenses and adjusting to the game. It's the key. The Merrimack coach will learn if he gets a better job that playing it exclusively is a massive challenge against better quality teams.