“I guess, kinda like Frank you don’t get it”

[Red Holzman]

$ from fan support is what drives SU hoops, and any athletic program.
Fans (ie: customers) want to gain insight on the team and it's performance.
Post game pressers should provide that insight vs. be antagonistic venom-filled vitriol.

There must be few, if any fans that actually enjoy JB's post-game pressers.
Yes I know JB doesn't care -that's the problem.

 

[Alsacs]

$ from fan support is what drives SU hoops, and any athletic program.
Fans (ie: customers) want to gain insight on the team and it's performance.
Post game pressers should provide that insight vs. be antagonistic venom-filled vitriol.

There must be few, if any fans that actually enjoy JB's post-game pressers.
Yes I know JB doesn't care -that's the problem.

Those big boosters rightfully have the attention of the AD. The damage that is being done to students on campus is a different story.
That is the future. It’s political demographics you want to get the most reliable constituents which are older fans/voters but cultivating the future is important.
We need a good regular season badly.

 

[Chip]

How many other coaches take cheap shots at their players like that in press conferences?

Yell at them during the game, in the locker room, at practice, whatever. That should be expected.

Getting upset with a reporter and then bringing the kid into that in a press conference that all will see just isn't necessary. Especially a kid who was thrown into the deep end due to a key injury.

None of that is to mention that the center is expected to cover the defensive shortcomings of the other players, of whom there are apparently no expectations to play D.

 

[cuseincincy]

Frog? Really?

It was late! My bad!

 

[TheCusian]

I do agree with you about groupthink and your point is well taken.

As for your son, would you feel differently if the modified soccer coach posted a Youtube video that everyone who knows your son watched and in that video he detailed, repeatedly, that no matter how many times I (and even his father) explain things to him, Cusian Jr just doesn't get it?

Thanks.

Would I? Not if we had already discussed it. But who knows - depends on the relationship with the coach and if I had faith in the process of my kid trying to get better under the HC. If I thought he didn’t know what he was talking about or I thought he was a detriment to my son - I’d be more po‘d.

This gets at the truth, though. I think people are upset *for* the player. They are mad at JB as if they were Frank or Frank’s parents - without - the relationship and trust on which the whole coach/player thing exists.

 

[TheCusian]

I hear you.

The issue even then is that the status quo is producing poor results and much weaker recruiting classes.

Thus it's not really the status quo given that the key assistants, the guys who could glue everything together (Mike and Bernie) aren't here anymore. The status quo was not just the approach- it was the personnel as well. So now you a staff that just doesn't have that same ability to balance out the bad of JB so that the brilliance can shine. That was a hell of a combination for a while that showed just how key it was in short order.

This is fair criticism. I think the issues are less “JB is mean to his player publicly“ and more the recruiting world keeps shifting and we got dinged in a way that limits our ability to shift with that wind. And once you lose momentum, it can be tough to dig out.

The question is can this old ball coach dig his way out (again)? And I don’t know.

 

[TheCusian]

$ from fan support is what drives SU hoops, and any athletic program.
Fans (ie: customers) want to gain insight on the team and it's performance.
Post game pressers should provide that insight vs. be antagonistic venom-filled vitriol.

There must be few, if any fans that actually enjoy JB's post-game pressers.
Yes I know JB doesn't care -that's the problem.

If we’re winning, our fans would be like “yeah, he’s a butthole - but he’s our butthole” lol.

 

[Alsacs]

Thanks.

Would I? Not if we had already discussed it. But who knows - depends on the relationship with the coach and if I had faith in the process of my kid trying to get better under the HC. If I thought he didn’t know what he was talking about or I thought he was a detriment to my son - I’d be more po‘d.

This gets at the truth, though. I think people are upset *for* the player. They are mad at JB as if they were Frank or Frank’s parents - without - the relationship and trust on which the whole coach/player thing exists.

Listen you are a good guy and a poster that brings an important diverse voice of opinion.

That said it is not acceptable for Jim Boeheim to use a player to bash a question.
That is a bullying 101.

Second how he treated Tyler Roberson after that Pitt game in 2016 was so bad it should have gotten the AD to tell him knock it off.

You don’t rip some kids in the media and then leave others alone.
Buddy and Jimmy’s defense is subpar. Maybe Frank wouldn’t have the issues he had if his boys could play some defense.
He ripped Jesse’s defense.

That doesn’t help their confidence.
Go Belichick style say I have to coach better. Never rip the players who are good kids.

It’s bullying.

 

[TheCusian]

Listen you are a good guy and a poster that brings an important diverse voice of opinion.

That said it is not acceptable for Jim Boeheim to use a player to bash a question.
That is a bullying 101.

Second how he treated Tyler Roberson after that Pitt game in 2016 was so bad it should have gotten the AD to tell him knock it off.

You don’t rip some kids in the media and then leave others alone.
Buddy and Jimmy’s defense is subpar. Maybe Frank wouldn’t have the issues he had if his boys could play some defense.
He ripped Jesse’s defense.

That doesn’t help their confidence.
Go Belichick style say I have to coach better. Never rip the players who are good kids.

It’s bullying.

Thanks.

Have you asked them how they feel about it? Or are you basing your criticism on the publicly available bits without the day to day interaction with the HC and his staff?

Again, I’d bet the car ride home with Dad is no fun for Buddy and Jimmy lol.

 

[Scooch]

Thanks.

Would I? Not if we had already discussed it. But who knows - depends on the relationship with the coach and if I had faith in the process of my kid trying to get better under the HC. If I thought he didn’t know what he was talking about or I thought he was a detriment to my son - I’d be more po‘d.

This gets at the truth, though. I think people are upset *for* the player. They are mad at JB as if they were Frank or Frank’s parents - without - the relationship and trust on which the whole coach/player thing exists.

I'm not upset for the player. He, and his family, are capable of addressing things with JB and the AD.

I get upset because it's not how I like to see my alma mater represented publicly. I certainly wouldn't expect some big shot professor to go on TV and rip one of his graduate students for screwing up his or her research. I wouldn't expect our AD to do an interview and shred an intern who messed up a Twitter image.

I've been managing teams for 20+ years and I never, ever, rip one of my staff to another leader in the company. Let alone do it in a room full of people.

It's bully behavior under the guise of "motivation". It sucks, and it has always sucked. I'm glad people have finally started calling it out, because its bugged me forever.

 

[NKR1978]

Then he should have retired after the Final 4 in 16 or the S16 runs in 18 and 21. This isn't going to change until there a fundamental change and that change is the head coach.

Push an assistant out the door and get an ace recruiter/mercenary who we can set up as coach in waiting. Otherwise this is how he's going out.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Thanks.

Have you asked them how they feel about it? Or are you basing your criticism on the publicly available bits without the day to day interaction with the HC and his staff?

Again, I’d bet the car ride home with Dad is no fun for Buddy and Jimmy lol.

Why do you keep talking about the car ride home? Im sure they both live on campus.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm not upset for the player. He, and his family, are capable of addressing things with JB and the AD.

I get upset because it's not how I like to see my alma mater represented publicly. I certainly wouldn't expect some big shot professor to go on TV and rip one of his graduate students for screwing up his or her research. I wouldn't expect our AD to do an interview and shred an intern who messed up a Twitter image.

I've been managing teams for 20+ years and I never, ever, rip one of my staff to another leader in the company. Let alone do it in a room full of people.

It's bully behavior under the guise of "motivation". It sucks, and it has always sucked. I'm glad people have finally started calling it out, because its bugged me forever.

Many of us have called this out for years.

 

[TheCusian]

Why do you keep talking about the car ride home? Im sure they both live on campus.

Lol. It's a stand in for any normal relations a college kid has with their Dad who lives in the same city

 

[TheCusian]

I'm not upset for the player. He, and his family, are capable of addressing things with JB and the AD.

I get upset because it's not how I like to see my alma mater represented publicly. I certainly wouldn't expect some big shot professor to go on TV and rip one of his graduate students for screwing up his or her research. I wouldn't expect our AD to do an interview and shred an intern who messed up a Twitter image.

I've been managing teams for 20+ years and I never, ever, rip one of my staff to another leader in the company. Let alone do it in a room full of people.

It's bully behavior under the guise of "motivation". It sucks, and it has always sucked. I'm glad people have finally started calling it out, because its bugged me forever.

You're making the same points I am. It's not good, it's a perception thing primarily, and *we* wouldn't do it. I'm not pro-bash players in public. I'm anti-making it a bigger drama than it is. The primary "victim" here is not the player - it is the perception of the university. And that's why it should be curtailed a bit. But Jim is a gangster who is old and prob won't.

That's different than some of the points people were making that got me to respond in the first place.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Lol. It's a stand in for any normal relations a college kid has with their Dad who lives in the same city

So, assuming they both live on campus, when do you think Jim has the hard conversations with them both?

I‘m starting to have a different belief on why he doesn’t call out Jimmy. Unlike other players he has ripped this year (e.g. Benny and Frank), Jimmy gives effort, but his physical limitations are what prevents most of his issues, especially on defense. It would be great if he mentioned his dearth of passing for assists once, but I don’t expect miracles here.

I‘m also of the opinion he doesn’t rip Buddy’s laissez faire attitude toward defense and rebounding because he knows that could hurt his slim chances at the next level.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You're making the same points I am. It's not good, it's a perception thing primarily, and *we* wouldn't do it. I'm not pro-bash players in public. I'm anti-making it a bigger drama than it is. The primary "victim" here is not the player - it is the perception of the university. And that's why it should be curtailed a bit. But Jim is a gangster who is old and prob won't.

That's different than some of the points people were making that got me to respond in the first place.

The other victim is future recruiting.

 

[MikeSU02]

You're making the same points I am. It's not good, it's a perception thing primarily, and *we* wouldn't do it. I'm not pro-bash players in public. I'm anti-making it a bigger drama than it is. The primary "victim" here is not the player - it is the perception of the university. And that's why it should be curtailed a bit. But Jim is a gangster who is old and prob won't.

That's different than some of the points people were making that got me to respond in the first place.

First, it may very well be the player, we don't know that. And that fact that it could be is a problem in terms of team dynamics. Especially when we've had the run we've been on.

Second, it's also that this is not a one-off thing, it's chronic and ongoing and it's selective, and not by merit.

And just because someone is old and has done well at something in the past, doesn't make him immune to criticism from either fans or the school or even previous guys that he coached.

A guy who is paid millions, who is in the HoF, has the court named after him, been on probation twice, has dealt poorly with credible accusations of assault on his team, blew up one transition already and is not performing well currently should not be allowed to gratuitously and selectively trash kids in a pressers over and over again.

 

[Red Holzman]

Regarding JB publicly trashing "clueless" players-
JB recruited and coaches those players.
Therefore JB has accountability -that doesn't seem to get acknowledged.
Can debate JB's degree of accountability, but "clueless" players reflect on the coach/program.
It's JB's own product he's trashing.

 

[Scooch]

You're making the same points I am. It's not good, it's a perception thing primarily, and *we* wouldn't do it. I'm not pro-bash players in public. I'm anti-making it a bigger drama than it is. The primary "victim" here is not the player - it is the perception of the university. And that's why it should be curtailed a bit. But Jim is a gangster who is old and prob won't.

That's different than some of the points people were making that got me to respond in the first place.

I mean, OK? I'm not a huge fan of giving bullies a pass, but to each their own.

 

[miamicuse]

Thanks.

Would I? Not if we had already discussed it. But who knows - depends on the relationship with the coach and if I had faith in the process of my kid trying to get better under the HC. If I thought he didn’t know what he was talking about or I thought he was a detriment to my son - I’d be more po‘d.

This gets at the truth, though. I think people are upset *for* the player. They are mad at JB as if they were Frank or Frank’s parents - without - the relationship and trust on which the whole coach/player thing exists.

I believe this coach/player relationship and trust is not there, or it is not the same as it was years ago.

It has been reported that the players work closely with the assistants during practices, they were recruited by the assistants, their relationships are with the assistants. JB is more like the overlord to the assistants.

JB is not as active as he was in the past. He has developed a system that allows him to do his work with less stress and strain. I saw an interview two years ago where JB was giving a tour of the Melo Center, and his office on the second floor has multiple giant TVs. The interviewer asked him if its too much work to coach at his age and he responded (I don't remember the exact words but just paraphrasing here) that no, he feels good, the work it's not that demanding, he is not running up and down the court like the players do, and they have done a few things to make it easier for him to stay on top of things, as an example he pointed to those giant TVs and said he can be up here watching the practices on these TVs instead of down there sweating and yelling.

I got the feeling the players have close relationships with the assistants. They are the good cops and JB plays the bad cop role. The assistants advocates for their players.

Having watched many Devo podcasts with interviews with former players I was really surprised how many said they were this close to transferring despite having to sit out one year. Players like Hakim Warrick, Josh Pace, Scoop, Dion, CJ Fair etc...

Dion actually packed his bag and Mike went to the Greyhound bus station to stop him and talked him out of it.

Scoop was so pissed off after a Villanova game in which he said he went to JB to ask if he would play him in front of his home town folks in Philly because if he is not playing he wants to just stay in Syracuse and not make the trip. JB told him yes he will play and then he end up getting a few scrap minutes at the end, he was so mad he had decided to quit and stay in Philly and not go back north with the team. JB came into the shower to hug him and that changed his mind.

Mike is not here anymore to keep on the players, doing positive reinforcement, averting crisis after crisis.

...and JB being more and more standoffish in player recruiting and development which allows him to still coach at his age, but he no longer has the close relationships with his players for them to feel the tough love when being yelled at. Today's JB wouldn't go to the shower to hug a Scoop Jardine I bet.

So not having Mike anymore to recruit and glue things together made a difference. Bernie Fine too.

Not doing as much recruiting and running practices watered down his relationships with his players. The current assistants may not be as effective as Mike was in holding things together.

Getting old and probably increasingly thinking "I am too old to care what you guys think of what I say" makes a difference.

The opening of the transfer portal obviously made a difference.

 

[bpo57]

The other victim is future recruiting.

In a previous post TheCusian dismissed the impact on recruiting. I agree with you. JB's behavior re ripping a few of his players can not be helpful when it comes to recruiting. And as you mentioned it's been going on for several years now.

 

[TinyManInside]

Every time I hear him trash one of his players, what I hear is "I recruited a player who can't play and furthermore I'm failing at coaching this player"

 

[Toga]

Jimmy throws up some crazy ass .

 

[tbonezone]

put on your poncho frank it's about come down again.