Best SU team of this new "Golden Age"? | Syracusefan.com

Best SU team of this new "Golden Age"?

IthacaMatt

Old Timer / Unofficial Contributor for 25+ years
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,443
Like
34,115
I missed seeing much of any discussion of this article from the Juice, which says that statistically, although we are weaker defending the three than we have been recently, we are rebounding the ball better at both ends of the floor, and we are generating a huge turnover margin.

Surprisingly, we are generating MORE turnovers with the current "length challenged" guards than we did with MCW and Triche, or Dion and Scoop, or Andy and Scoop/Triche.

Really good article, as we successfully met another challenge today. Worth another look, if it passed you by a few days ago, like it did for me.

http://sujuiceonline.com/2013/12/23...etball-will-be-sus-best-team-in-last-5-years/
 
Turnover margin is going to take this team far. Very very far. It is the difference maker.

I missed seeing much of any discussion of this article from the Juice, which says that statistically, although we are weaker defending the three than we have been recently, we are rebounding the ball better at both ends of the floor, and we are generating a huge turnover margin.

Surprisingly, we are generating MORE turnovers with the current "length challenged" guards than we did with MCW and Triche, or Dion and Scoop, or Andy and Scoop/Triche.

Really good article, as we successfully met another challenge today. Worth another look, if it passed you by a few days ago, like it did for me.

http://sujuiceonline.com/2013/12/23...etball-will-be-sus-best-team-in-last-5-years/
 
Turnover margin is going to take this team far. Very very far. It is the difference maker.


I don't think we'll have a single one of those -15 or -20 days on the boards, either. We're just too big this year and too deep.

Count me as really surprised that this group is generating more steals than any team of the last 5 years. I had no idea, and I hope they can keep it up.
 
Stats aside, this team isn't as good as 09-10, no matter what we end up doing.



Well, let's take a look:

C: Arinze / Rick Jackson vs. Christmas, Coleman and Keita

Positional defense favors Arinze and Rick. They were both better rebounders than any of the 3 current centers. But Christmas and Keita are both more mobile than the 2010 guys, and the 2010 team did get wiped out on the boards a few times. We also sometimes lacked interior mobility and reaction to teams like Pitt and UConn who knew how to pass inside the zone. This year's team hasn't been carved up like that 2010 team yet. But Rick or Arinze could get you a 10 point game on a semi-regular basis. The current guys offer nothing near their offensive productivity in the low post.

F: Wes Johnson, Kris Joseph vs. CJ Fair and Jerami Grant

2010 team was better here, but not by as much as you might think. Wes was an incredible teammate and a borderline all-american that year and shot 40% from three with a good number of attempts. Kris Joseph was the reckless runner on the break (pre-skull fall at Providence the following year). Fair gives us more midrange game than the other guys and is around the rim more. Wes Johnson was a great help defender and shot blocker and a pretty good rebounder. Although CJ's numbers are not as high as they could be, I think CJ is a bit tougher than Wes. Grant is a pogo stick and may prove to be more of a threat in the halfcourt than Kris ever was.

2G: Andy vs. Trevor

As hard to believe as it may be, this one is about a wash, if Trevor can keep it up. Andy created more for his teammates, with something like 4.7 assists a game, but also used to throw it away a couple times a game, too. Trevor is running off screens like Andy, and is a bit more physically durable, so far (knock on wood).

PG: Scoop / Triche vs. Ennis

I don't think this is close, especially early in Scoop and Brandon's career. Ennis was better than both of them at this point. They did all play unselfishly, though. Andy and Arinze and Wes instilled that cultural change after the selfish play of the Jonny / Paul / Devo team the year before.

Put it altogether, and I think it's fair to say that this team is pretty close to the 2010 team. The guard play is a bit better. The defense up front rebounds better and is more mobile, but much weaker on offense. We had a legitimate low post offense in 2010 (although neither center could make a foul shot ...). I think both teams had a couple explosive athletic forwards, and a dead eye shooting guard. This year's team has the poise of an elite PG. Andy sort of filled that role for us, but Andy was always getting beat up by opposing teams. I don't really see that with this year's team.
 
Last edited:
09/10 was the better team.

'10 was our year...

Hell, even 2008/2009's team was spectacular.

Flynn, Devo, Harris, Rautins, AO, Rick Jackson, etc.
 
09/10 was the better team.

'10 was our year...

Hell, even 2008/2009's team was spectacular.

Flynn, Devo, Harris, Rautins, AO, Rick Jackson, etc.
That team was also actually pretty mediocre-poor defensively. Flynn and Devo were both short and prone to not playing defense. Harris was a very good rebounder, but frequently got caught out of position on the wing. Our best defensive forward (as opposed to center) was probably actually Kristof.
 
Arinze's team! (but only by an Andy to Wes bucket at the end)
 
2012 with fab melo was probably better too.

we are 12-0 and have beaten 2 ranked teams and 1 or 2ish other good teams. its a great start to the season... but lets not act like we havent been here before. We have started in the last 4 years:

24-1
18-0
20-0
18-1

we are a great program. unfortunately with great programs you cant predict if its the best team of a certain era until the season is done. not saying we are or we arent, just lets not get ahead of ourselves yet.
 
Guys, this may be the third best team talent wise since 2010...But, they are a better team than both 2010 or 2012. Our guard play this year has been phenomenal. As has our front court play...I cannot wait to watch the rest of this season to unfold. April in Texas may just happen!
 
I don't think we'll have a single one of those -15 or -20 days on the boards, either. We're just too big this year and too deep.

Count me as really surprised that this group is generating more steals than any team of the last 5 years. I had no idea, and I hope they can keep it up.

I imagine this will decrease once we get to ACC play. We'll still be good in this department, but I imagine this teams forced turnover rate won't be as high as last years team by the end of the year.
 
Stats aside, this team isn't as good as 09-10, no matter what we end up doing.

I agree with you - if given the choice I will always give the edge to the team that has a legitimate low post scoring presence. 2010 had two, this year's team has zero.
 
Does anyone remember when the 2008 Greene/Flynn team was being compared to the title team?
 
Does anyone remember when the 2008 Greene/Flynn team was being compared to the title team?

Yeah, from the start of fall practice until right around the time they got thrashed by Kosta Koufas and unranked Ohio State and then gave up 107 to UMass in the span of a week.
 
I agree with you - if given the choice I will always give the edge to the team that has a legitimate low post scoring presence. 2010 had two, this year's team has zero.
Right now I too lean toward 2010, with the right to change my mind as I see more from this excellent team. 2010 wasn't perfect, but they didn't have a weakness either. That team was solid at worst in just about any area you can think of, had two legit post scorers, and all 7 regulars could have a big offensive game on any given day. This team has no real post scoring presence, and only has a mere 4 guys who are capable of having a big day offensively.
 
Does anyone remember when the 2008 Greene/Flynn team was being compared to the title team?
All too well. My cousin still sports his dynasty shirt from that season now and then, I've threatened to steal and burn it on multiple occasions.
 
Trey and the boys gave me a sweet cover of "golden age" this summer. Carry on...
 
I actually believe this is our year, just like I did back in 2010. Back in 2010 it was going to be Duke, Kansas or us. Kentucky had a great defensive team that year, but not a good offensive one which is why the Eers beat them to get to the Final Four. This year's equivalent to Kentucky will be Ohio State. Their defense will likely take them far in the tourney, but their offense will prevent them from winning it all.

This year, it's still too early to say who it's going to be. Right now it looks like it's coming down to Arizona, Louisville, or us. But Kansas definitely has room to grow and if Wiggins and Embiid hit their stride in February and March, they could be a tough out.

Cheers,
Neil
 
I think this has the potential to be our best offensive quadrilateral threat of the new era in ennis, cooney fair and grant. They are averaging 17.8, 14.7, 12.8, and 12.7 right now and the 14.7 12.8 and 12.7 is coming from a freshmen, and two sophmores. The thought that Ennis, Grant and Cooney could get better as the season goes on is downright scary. And they score from 4 different positions while scoring from NBA range, midrange, alittle post up, shooting off the dribble and a true driving scoring threat who can even slow it down in the lane in ennis. That is saying alot though it is better to have 4 offensive stars averaing 13-18 then 6 balenced guys who average around 9-10 imo.

Cooney has scored in double figures in 10 of our 12 games, Grant same thing with putting up 6 in the other two, Fair has scored 15 or more points in 11 of our 12 games, and Ennis as a freshmen has scored in double figures in 9 of our last 11 games, he had two tough game due to freshmen jitters developing his midrange game, and only took 2 shots against binghmaton who we blew out by like 30.
 
I actually believe this is our year, just like I did back in 2010. Back in 2010 it was going to be Duke, Kansas or us. Kentucky had a great defensive team that year, but not a good offensive one which is why the Eers beat them to get to the Final Four. This year's equivalent to Kentucky will be Ohio State. Their defense will likely take them far in the tourney, but their offense will prevent them from winning it all.

This year, it's still too early to say who it's going to be. Right now it looks like it's coming down to Arizona, Louisville, or us. But Kansas definitely has room to grow and if Wiggins and Embiid hit their stride in February and March, they could be a tough out.

Cheers,
Neil

I agree except Lville may be the most overrated team in the country.
 
I agree except Lville may be the most overrated team in the country.

They usually are at this point in the season. Pitino plays for February and March, not November and December. Still, today's news about Behanan hurts. And the new rules seem to have impacted their defense somewhat, though I think it's more not have Gorgui Dieng in the middle to swat away their pressing mistakes than the new rules.

Cheers,
Neil
 
You gotta love these arguments. it's better than having a great team in 2009-2010 and nobody that compares to them since.

Heck, our best team might be next year.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,661
Messages
4,719,564
Members
5,913
Latest member
cuse702

Online statistics

Members online
168
Guests online
2,163
Total visitors
2,331


Top Bottom